Chiefs The sad thing is this line could be just as bad next year - Page 2

B_Ambuehl · 11-07-2009, 11:50 AM

It really needs 4 new starters. Waters is close to being done. He's about where Shields was his last year. Just watched a replay of the SD game and he made their practice squad reject d-line look like world beaters. Goff is done. Niswanger has nothing. O-lines are usually 3 year rebuilding projects and we haven't even started on year 1. Clark obviously won't pay anybody who can really come in here and play football. He had plenty of opportunities to pick up a viable center and right tackle and passed on all of them. You can draft a bunch of rookies, but it takes them 2-3 years to get going (see Jacksonville). Unfortunately, it's looking like this line will be the death of Todd Haley.

Param · 11-07-2009, 01:24 PM

[QUOTE=The Bad Guy;6240626
You want an example? The Atlanta Falcons. You want another? The Denver Broncos. One more? The New York Jets.

I've contributed more substance in one day on this board than you have your entire tenure.

.[/QUOTE]

Don't know much about ATL, but the Broncos never had a piss poor line. They picked up Clady in the 1st, Harris in 4th?, Kuper in 6th?, Casey FA. Hamilton been there a long time. Now the Jets spent 1st round picks on Mangold/Ferguson, then spent tons of money on the other positions. I think they have 4 former 1st round picks on the line.

This line could definately be bad again next year if we're not going to draft players/pay $ in FA. And even if we pick up players in the draft, it's highly unlikely they start right out of the gates.

CHIEFS58 · 11-07-2009, 01:30 PM

this is not a face that inspires confidence. he basically looks out of his mind to me.

**The Bad Guy** · 11-07-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Param

Don't know much about ATL, but the Broncos never had a piss poor line. They picked up Clady in the 1st, Harris in 4th?, Kuper in 6th?, Casey FA. Hamilton been there a long time. Now the Jets spent 1st round picks on Mangold/Ferguson, then spent tons of money on the other positions. I think they have 4 former 1st round picks on the line.

This line could definately be bad again next year if we're not going to draft players/pay $ in FA. And even if we pick up players in the draft, it's highly unlikely they start right out of the gates.

The Falcons offensive line was horrid the season before Ryan got there.

The Broncos had to rebuild their line and did it in basically one off-season and 2 drafts.

The point is, they fixed their lines in less than 3 years.

**BossChief** · 11-07-2009, 01:34 PM

I think fixing the oline starts by not trying to believe some players are what they are not.

Goff is NOT a starting calibur player anymore
Rudy is NOT a center

Im a patient man, but seeing the same weakness exploited game after game and no apparent attempt to fix it and instead focusing on other positions, is a little disturbing as a fan.

I simply can not understand why Goff stays on the field when there are two or three players that have displayed better ability and are much younger.

If we shuffled the line and came out after the bye like this:

Albert
Waters
Smith/Alleman
Rudy/Ndukwe
Ryan O.

the line has far fewer problems s it does now and it would give us a better idea of where we need to go in the offseason.

JMO

B_Ambuehl · 11-07-2009, 01:37 PM

The Falcons offensive line was so horrid last year they felt comfortable enough to let a pro bowler right guard in Keynan Forney walk away.

The Broncos got a couple of better players at key positions, but their line was never 1/4 as dysfunctional as ours to start with.

Regarding Jared Allen, the ONLY reason he's not here is because Clark wouldn't pay him. It's always about the money and that was only about the money.

nychief · 11-07-2009, 01:43 PM

The line got old, CP didn't draft well....

last years FA class was not gangbusters for the money. There have been mistakes made...

But I disagree that it'll take 3 years and with the assertion that CH is tight.

**The Bad Guy** · 11-07-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

The Falcons offensive line was so horrid last year they felt comfortable enough to let a pro bowler right guard in Keynan Forney walk away.

The Broncos got a couple of better players at key positions, but their line was never 1/4 as dysfunctional as ours to start with.

Regarding Jared Allen, the ONLY reason he's not here is because Clark wouldn't pay him. It's always about the money and that was only about the money.

It was about Jared Allen keeping his nose clean and only that. It wasn't about paying him. Carl Peterson paid his boys every single time their contract came up.

The Falcons line was ****ing terrible. Forney played like shit in his last year in Atlanta and has continued to play like shit since, which is why SD let him go. Wayne Gandy was terrible. Todd Weiner sucked at RT. They replaced their entire right side of the line as well as their LT and did it with success in ONE season.

B_Ambuehl · 11-07-2009, 01:51 PM

If you feel that strongly about it we'll have to agree to disagree. Allen accepted a contract from the Vikings that protected them in event of drug suspension, he would've accepted the same contract here but Clark doesn't want to spend money. Atlanta's line wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

DaWolf · 11-07-2009, 01:52 PM

Guess we'll find out a lot about our front office this offseason...

**BossChief** · 11-07-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

It was about Jared Allen keeping his nose clean and only that. It wasn't about paying him. Carl Peterson paid his boys every single time their contract came up.

The Falcons line was ****ing terrible. Forney played like shit in his last year in Atlanta and has continued to play like shit since, which is why SD let him go. Wayne Gandy was terrible. Todd Weiner sucked at RT. They replaced their entire right side of the line as well as their LT and did it with success in ONE season.

I mostly agree with this post. What CP could never decipher is good talent from elite talent.

Guys like Jared should be treated differently than the average joe.

Jared became dominant in his third year and we never heard a peep about $$$ from him through his whole rookie contract that was of a 4th rounder. When you have a pass rusher that is as complete of a defender as Jared is/was you have to treat him the same as you do your QB because he is almost as important to your chances at a superbowl.

Jared will go off when it gets to the postseason this year and I bet he helps them win a title THIS YEAR.

I said it before and Ill say it again, I wouldnt have traded him for two firsts.

KCDC · 11-07-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

The morons screwed up by not drafting OL this year. They were too hell bent on switching to the shitty 3-4.

This. By doing the switch, it forced us to flush our 4-3 defensive linemen for nothing, and use half of our top draft picks for 2-3 years to do the transition.

A team with lots of needs does not need to switch to another type of defense which creates a bucket full of fresh needs.

Just Passin' By · 11-07-2009, 04:50 PM

They replaced a defense that set a league record for fewest sacks, and some of you people are still bitching about the switch to the 3-4.

Newsflash: You can't expect to improve 45+ positions in one season and, no matter where you do improve, you'll still have areas which suck enough that impatient and/or stupid fans will be bitching even though it was a 2 win team the season before.

TrickyNicky · 11-07-2009, 05:00 PM

Rudy and Wade's contracts are both up this year (per Walterfootball), so it will be telling which one we re-sign and/or draft a replacement.

milkman · 11-07-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

They replaced a defense that set a league record for fewest sacks, and some of you people are still bitching about the switch to the 3-4.

Newsflash: You can't expect to improve 45+ positions in one season and, no matter where you do improve, you'll still have areas which suck enough that impatient and/or stupid fans will be bitching even though it was a 2 win team the season before.

No, they didn't improve the sacks numbers because of a scheme change.

The sack numbers are improved because Dorsey is devloping into a player that is disruptive on the D-Line.

Had they remained in a 43, and used Dorsey as the UT with Hali as the LDE, the improvement would very likely be much the same as it is now.

The last draft should have been dedicated to offense.
The next to defense.

They appear to be ass backwards.

Coogs · 11-07-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

They replaced a defense that set a league record for fewest sacks, and some of you people are still bitching about the switch to the 3-4.

Newsflash: You can't expect to improve 45+ positions in one season and, no matter where you do improve, you'll still have areas which suck enough that impatient and/or stupid fans will be bitching even though it was a 2 win team the season before.

We still could have drafted Jackson in the first. Cassel and Vrabel with the 2nd. From that point on was where you would have to rate the draft a big FAIL with regards to the offensive line.

We won't go into the first two rounds in this draft in this thread...

11-07-2009, 11:50 AM
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	The sad thing is this line could be just as bad next year It really needs 4 new starters. Waters is close to being done. He's about where Shields was his last year. Just watched a replay of the SD game and he made their practice squad reject d-line look like world beaters. Goff is done. Niswanger has nothing. O-lines are usually 3 year rebuilding projects and we haven't even started on year 1. Clark obviously won't pay anybody who can really come in here and play football. He had plenty of opportunities to pick up a viable center and right tackle and passed on all of them. You can draft a bunch of rookies, but it takes them 2-3 years to get going (see Jacksonville). Unfortunately, it's looking like this line will be the death of Todd Haley.
Posts: 2,613

11-07-2009, 01:24 PM	#16
Param Veteran Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $10005218	[QUOTE=The Bad Guy;6240626 You want an example? The Atlanta Falcons. You want another? The Denver Broncos. One more? The New York Jets. I've contributed more substance in one day on this board than you have your entire tenure. .[/QUOTE] Don't know much about ATL, but the Broncos never had a piss poor line. They picked up Clady in the 1st, Harris in 4th?, Kuper in 6th?, Casey FA. Hamilton been there a long time. Now the Jets spent 1st round picks on Mangold/Ferguson, then spent tons of money on the other positions. I think they have 4 former 1st round picks on the line. This line could definately be bad again next year if we're not going to draft players/pay $ in FA. And even if we pick up players in the draft, it's highly unlikely they start right out of the gates.
Posts: 2,173

11-07-2009, 01:30 PM	#17
CHIEFS58 Smoke a turd. Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Western North Carolina Casino cash: $10004930	this is not a face that inspires confidence. he basically looks out of his mind to me.
Posts: 2,217

11-07-2009, 01:34 PM	#19
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $-1715912	I think fixing the oline starts by not trying to believe some players are what they are not. Goff is NOT a starting calibur player anymore Rudy is NOT a center Im a patient man, but seeing the same weakness exploited game after game and no apparent attempt to fix it and instead focusing on other positions, is a little disturbing as a fan. I simply can not understand why Goff stays on the field when there are two or three players that have displayed better ability and are much younger. If we shuffled the line and came out after the bye like this: Albert Waters Smith/Alleman Rudy/Ndukwe Ryan O. the line has far fewer problems s it does now and it would give us a better idea of where we need to go in the offseason. JMO __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,901

11-07-2009, 01:37 PM	#20
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	The Falcons offensive line was so horrid last year they felt comfortable enough to let a pro bowler right guard in Keynan Forney walk away. The Broncos got a couple of better players at key positions, but their line was never 1/4 as dysfunctional as ours to start with. Regarding Jared Allen, the ONLY reason he's not here is because Clark wouldn't pay him. It's always about the money and that was only about the money.
Posts: 2,613

11-07-2009, 01:43 PM	#21
nychief MVP Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NYC Casino cash: $5369466	The line got old, CP didn't draft well.... last years FA class was not gangbusters for the money. There have been mistakes made... But I disagree that it'll take 3 years and with the assertion that CH is tight. __________________ Good Time Charlie, Uncle Doobie and the Great Frisco Freakout.
Posts: 8,166

11-07-2009, 01:51 PM	#23
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	If you feel that strongly about it we'll have to agree to disagree. Allen accepted a contract from the Vikings that protected them in event of drug suspension, he would've accepted the same contract here but Clark doesn't want to spend money. Atlanta's line wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.
Posts: 2,613

11-07-2009, 01:52 PM	#24
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	Guess we'll find out a lot about our front office this offseason...
Posts: 6,798

11-07-2009, 04:50 PM	#27
Just Passin' By In Search of a Life Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $5450524	They replaced a defense that set a league record for fewest sacks, and some of you people are still bitching about the switch to the 3-4. Newsflash: You can't expect to improve 45+ positions in one season and, no matter where you do improve, you'll still have areas which suck enough that impatient and/or stupid fans will be bitching even though it was a 2 win team the season before.
Posts: 69,748

11-07-2009, 05:00 PM	#28
TrickyNicky My Black Friend, Alan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Manhattan Casino cash: $10007047	Rudy and Wade's contracts are both up this year (per Walterfootball), so it will be telling which one we re-sign and/or draft a replacement.
Posts: 3,648