Chiefs Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation - Page 2

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-14-2009, 11:24 AM

Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from.

One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team."

Let me make this clear: I do not disagree.

However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse.

And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple:

The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation.

I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought.

Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization.

And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors.

Two. Out of forty-five.

That's a whopping 4% success rate.

I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players.

Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's.

Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's.

And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC.

With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players.

Let the excuses flow like fine wine.

Discus.

This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.

**The Franchise** · 12-14-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burt

Other than draft picks....the choices were nothing but left overs! Chambers, Wade.....etc. just left outs......

Hand picked left overs and throw aways. Draft picks and Cassel were his ONLY hand picked players.

Dude......Pioli was hired on January 13, 2009.

He had free agency to get some players that would help this team. He chose not to.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-14-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burt

Other than draft picks....the choices were nothing but left overs! Chambers, Wade.....etc. just left outs......

Hand picked left overs and throw aways. Draft picks and Cassel were his ONLY hand picked players.

So now Pioli didn't have the free agency period to acquire players?

Oh, wait. He did. And he used it to sign Goff, Engram, etc.

I already see your other bullshit excuse coming, so I'll just address it now:

"Who would want to sign with a shitty team?"

Let's ask Jason Brown, who signed with the Rams. We sure could have used a young, aspiring center.

Or TJ Houshmanzadeh, who signed with the Seahawks. We didn't need a WR, right?

Should I keep going?

**The Franchise** · 12-14-2009, 12:17 PM

Let's take a look at some of the free agents that Pioli chose not to sign....that could have helped this team.

Chris Canty - Could have played 3-4 DE for us....for less money than Tyson Jackson. Thus freeing up our 1st round pick to go BPA.

Jason Brown - Could have filled the whole at OC that we had.

Sean Jones - Easily could have competed for a safety position in our defense.

burt · 12-14-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

So now Pioli didn't have the free agency period to acquire players?

Oh, wait. He did. And he used it to sign Goff, Engram, etc.

I already see your other bullshit excuse coming, so I'll just address it now:?

Panties in a bunch much? Calm down, I just disagree with you, I am not callin' yer mama names! Was there spittle flying from your lips while you typed that?

Okay, I agree, Pioli missed some great opportunities. Opportunities that signed with organizations that had experienced front offices that had all the policies and proceedures down pat. They didn't sign with a team that had a fresman GM and head coach that didn't have a firm grasp of policies and proceedures.

I am just saying....give them their freshman mistakes.

We could have hired a GM and Head Coach that had been fired else where, but the Chiefs elected to hire a non experienced HC and GM, gambling that they had what it takes. I still figure that is a better gamble than hiring a HC and GM that wasn't good enough elsewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Should I keep going?

Nah, you are right, you know that you are right, and nothing will change your mind. So I won't try, it would be a waste of both of our time. Besides that, I worry about your blood pressure.

keg in kc · 12-14-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Chris Canty - Could have played 3-4 DE for us....for less money than Tyson Jackson. Thus freeing up our 1st round pick to go BPA.

Jason Brown - Could have filled the whole at OC that we had.

Sean Jones - Easily could have competed for a safety position in our defense.

Jackson may have been the BPA on their board. We have no way of knowing.

I think Brown would have been a great pickup.

I'll say what I've said probably 10,000 times in the last 9 years on this board, you can be disappointed with this year, I'm not sure who wouldn't be, but from within that red haze don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't the only year they have. It was always a multiple-year proposition, and positive or negative, what happened in 2009, offseason or inseason, isn't any kind of indictment on the future. Things may get better. Or they may not. But they do have time and many more opportunities left to fix the franchise.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-14-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Jackson may have been the BPA on their board. We have no way of knowing.

I think Brown would have been a great pickup.

I'll say what I've said probably 10,000 times in the last 9 years on this board, you can be disappointed with this year, I'm not sure who wouldn't be, but from within that red haze don't lose sight of the fact that this isn't the only year they have. It was always a multiple-year proposition, and positive or negative, what happened in 2009, offseason or inseason, isn't any kind of indictment on the future. Things may get better. Or they may not. But they do have time and many more opportunities left to fix the franchise.

I agree, Keg, and good post.

However, just because we all knew this was a multiple year proposition does not make it acceptable to completely waste one of those years.

We are literally no better off than we were this time last year.

You could argue that the team is worse.

So basically, we're starting over, yet again.

-King- · 12-14-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

It's going to take a lot to make me happy this offseason. And yes I know that the Chiefs don't give two shits about how I feel or what I want....but I'd like to see 75% of this shit happen.

1. Fire Pendergast and bring in a competent 3-4 defensive coordinator.

2. Hire an offensive coordinator and let him call the plays.

3. Hire a QB coach and actually let him coach the QBs.

4. Bring in competition at the QB position. And I mean actual competition...not another QB that will get 10 reps throughout the offseason and then Cassel gets the job handed to him.

5. Draft a ****ing playmaker in the 1st round. I better not see a defensive lineman or offensive lineman with a top 5 pick.

6. Be active in Free Agency. I know that if it's uncapped that there won't be a lot (if any) good free agents out there. But if it is a capped year....then we better be filling ****ing holes this offseason.

/thread

Dude come on, you should have let the thread get to 4-5 pages before you ended it.

tooge · 12-14-2009, 01:15 PM

I agree that the talent was misjudged. However, I also give Pioli a pass, for now, on that one. Remember, Pioli got this gig late in the game. By the time due diligence was completed regarding coaching availability and veteran free agents, most of the good pickins were gone. To think that he could evaluate the talent, most of whom he had never met, evaluate the coaches, manage marketing of a failed franchise, and concentrate on the draft all in 2 months is an impossible thing to ask. By the time he had a chance to see what he had, it was 6 weeks before the season, and he probably thought "holy crap" to himself. I want to see what direction this team heads with regards to offnsive and defensive coordinators, free agent pickups, and the draft before I get too disappointed in the job he has done. Imagine signing on as the GM of this team when he did. What the heck would any of us done differently? We dont know all the circumstances either. Maybe he wanted Crennel but Crennel wasn't ready. Maybe Chan Gaily wasn't exactly truthful in his adaptability as the OC. We simply dont know. I hope he is the right guy for the job, but there is simply no way we can tell until midway through next season. As much as that sucks, it is what it is.

Mecca · 12-14-2009, 01:18 PM

You know how good they are at talent evaluation?

Larry Johnson was run out on the field over Charles repeatedly, think about that.

tooge · 12-14-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

You know how good they are at talent evaluation?

Larry Johnson was run out on the field over Charles repeatedly, think about that.

cant argue there. But elsewhere, what talent were they evaluating? By the time they got to see what they had, and realize it wasn't just due to poor conditioning, poor commitment, and poor coaching, there wasn't anthing better out there. I think the proof of that is the sheer numbers of players they kept bringing in at offensive line and receiver positions.

Mecca · 12-14-2009, 01:24 PM

Why is Mike Brown playing over Morgan? Even where it seems they at least have another option they refuse to even try it.

These guys look like boobs.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-14-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooge

cant argue there. But elsewhere, what talent were they evaluating? By the time they got to see what they had, and realize it wasn't just due to poor conditioning, poor commitment, and poor coaching, there wasn't anthing better out there. I think the proof of that is the sheer numbers of players they kept bringing in at offensive line and receiver positions.

C'mon, man.

Hell, Pioli's old team PLAYED the Chiefs. They knew exactly what they had, and what they didn't have. Plus you have pro personnel scouts who scout every NFL team.

Christ, even the FANS knew this roster was talent depleted, and where the holes were.

He wasn't flying blind, here.

He just whiffed. Simple as that.

burt · 12-14-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooge

I agree that the talent was misjudged. However, I also give Pioli a pass, for now, on that one. Remember, Pioli got this gig late in the game. By the time due diligence was completed regarding coaching availability and veteran free agents, most of the good pickins were gone. To think that he could evaluate the talent, most of whom he had never met, evaluate the coaches, manage marketing of a failed franchise, and concentrate on the draft all in 2 months is an impossible thing to ask. By the time he had a chance to see what he had, it was 6 weeks before the season, and he probably thought "holy crap" to himself. I want to see what direction this team heads with regards to offnsive and defensive coordinators, free agent pickups, and the draft before I get too disappointed in the job he has done. Imagine signing on as the GM of this team when he did. What the heck would any of us done differently? We dont know all the circumstances either. Maybe he wanted Crennel but Crennel wasn't ready. Maybe Chan Gaily wasn't exactly truthful in his adaptability as the OC. We simply dont know. I hope he is the right guy for the job, but there is simply no way we can tell until midway through next season. As much as that sucks, it is what it is.

Zactly!

Mecca · 12-14-2009, 01:28 PM

I honestly would like to know what his offseason plan was, right now it doesn't look like there was one.

Other than "hey those past guys were so bad we'll make these players better just cause"

burt · 12-14-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Why is Mike Brown playing over Morgan? Even where it seems they at least have another option they refuse to even try it.

These guys look like boobs.

I like boobs........

12-14-2009, 11:24 AM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2041115	Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from. One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team." Let me make this clear: I do not disagree. However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse. And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple: The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation. I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought. Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization. And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors. Two. Out of forty-five. That's a whopping 4% success rate. I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players. Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's. Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's. And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC. With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players. Let the excuses flow like fine wine. Discus. This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.
Posts: 60,758

12-14-2009, 12:17 PM	#18
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2055047	Let's take a look at some of the free agents that Pioli chose not to sign....that could have helped this team. Chris Canty - Could have played 3-4 DE for us....for less money than Tyson Jackson. Thus freeing up our 1st round pick to go BPA. Jason Brown - Could have filled the whole at OC that we had. Sean Jones - Easily could have competed for a safety position in our defense.
Posts: 92,316

12-14-2009, 01:15 PM	#23
tooge MVP Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Liberty, MO Casino cash: $574112	I agree that the talent was misjudged. However, I also give Pioli a pass, for now, on that one. Remember, Pioli got this gig late in the game. By the time due diligence was completed regarding coaching availability and veteran free agents, most of the good pickins were gone. To think that he could evaluate the talent, most of whom he had never met, evaluate the coaches, manage marketing of a failed franchise, and concentrate on the draft all in 2 months is an impossible thing to ask. By the time he had a chance to see what he had, it was 6 weeks before the season, and he probably thought "holy crap" to himself. I want to see what direction this team heads with regards to offnsive and defensive coordinators, free agent pickups, and the draft before I get too disappointed in the job he has done. Imagine signing on as the GM of this team when he did. What the heck would any of us done differently? We dont know all the circumstances either. Maybe he wanted Crennel but Crennel wasn't ready. Maybe Chan Gaily wasn't exactly truthful in his adaptability as the OC. We simply dont know. I hope he is the right guy for the job, but there is simply no way we can tell until midway through next season. As much as that sucks, it is what it is.
Posts: 17,226

12-14-2009, 01:18 PM	#24
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-752950	You know how good they are at talent evaluation? Larry Johnson was run out on the field over Charles repeatedly, think about that.
Posts: 115,387

12-14-2009, 01:24 PM	#26
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-752950	Why is Mike Brown playing over Morgan? Even where it seems they at least have another option they refuse to even try it. These guys look like boobs.
Posts: 115,387

12-14-2009, 01:28 PM	#29
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-752950	I honestly would like to know what his offseason plan was, right now it doesn't look like there was one. Other than "hey those past guys were so bad we'll make these players better just cause"
Posts: 115,387