What's wrong with Mecole Hardman - Part 2

[dlphg9]

Spoiler alert!

Nothing is wrong with him! Unless you consider Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce as being a problem.

Mecole was 3rd on the team in targets (62), rec yards (560), and rec TDs (4). Those stats are right in line with any other teams 3rd most productive receiver and none of those other teams had 2 guys that were 1st team AP in front of that guy.

Green Bay Packers #1 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Robert Tonyan - 59 targets, 52 rec, 586 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 212
Rec - 148
Yards - 2064

Buffalo Bills #2 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Gabriel Davis - 62 targets, 35 rec, 599 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 273
Rec - 209
Yards - 2502

Tampa Bay Buccaneers #3 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Rob Gronkowski - 77 targets, 45 rec, 623 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 193
Rec - 135
Yards - 1846

Tennessee Titans #4 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jonnu Smith - 65 targets, 41 rec, 448 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 198
Rec - 135
Yards - 2059

New Orleans Saints #5 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jared Cook - 60 targets, 37 rec, 504 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 189
Rec - 144
Yards - 1482

Baltimore Ravens #7 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Willie Snead - 48 targets, 33 rec, 432 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 188
Rec - 116
Yards - 1470

Seattle Seahawks #8 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
David Moore - 47 targets, 35 rec, 417 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 261
Rec - 183
Yards - 2357

Indianapolis Colts #9 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Michael Pittman Jr. - 61 targets, 40 rec, 503 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 164
Rec - 99
Yards - 1391

Las Vegas Raiders #10 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Hunter Renfrow - 77 targets, 56 rec, 656 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 227
Rec - 155
Yards - 2092

Average for top 10 scoring offense's 3rd most productive receiving option :

Targets - 62
Receptions - 41
Yards - 530

Average for top 10 scoring offense's top 2 most productive receiving options combined :

Targets - 212
Receptions - 147
Yards - 1918


This is how Hardman stacks up against the other teams 3rd receiving option

Targets - 62 (62 avg)
Receptions - 41 (41 avg)
Yards - 560 (530 avg)

Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce combined

Targets - 280 (most in group)
Receptions - 192 (2nd most in group)
Yards - 2692 (most in group)

So what we can see from these stats above is that nothing is up with Mecole Hardman. His targets and reception matched the average of the 9 other top offenses 3rd receiving option and he was above average in yards, but the big huge difference is Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill just happen to be on the same team as him. Those two have 68 more combined targets, 45 more combined receptions, and 774 more combined yards than the others teams top 2 receiving threats.

TLDR;

Nothing is wrong, he's right in line with the other teams 3rd most productive pass catchers. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are monsters and the best pass catching duo in a long ass time.

PS:

Seriously Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are so good! There was only 11 QBs with more TD passes than those 2 had receiving TDs.

PSS:

****ing Cam Newton started 15 games and had 45 less passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards in the same amount of games!

PSSS:

****ing MVP Lamar had 65 more passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards and they tied for the same amount of passing TDs to receiving TDs.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Red Dawg

This. I don't see it with him.

To be fair, you say that about pretty much everybody.

[Chief Roundup]

It appears he does not take his craft seriously enough. He is still running the wrong routes or routes incorrectly.
He is an example of where they tried to reach for a position that they thought might be a need, Tyreek, but it was not. Again they saw that Tyreek learned and how good he has become. Hardman has not shown any of that same ability.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by -King-

This is just like when Saints players try to convince themselves Taysom Hill isn't a gadget player by just posting his stats with no context

In what way is it the same, because I'm trying to find a way to make Taysom Hill look like more than a gadget player with his stats and I'm having an extremely hard time.

He's a WR/QB that has put up over the course of 53 games these stats:

Rec yds - 336
Rec tds - 7
Rush yds - 809
Rush tds - 11
Pass yds - 1047
Pass tds - 4
Pass ints - 3

Other than flukey TD numbers there isn't much to work with.

You ****ing people expect too much from a 2nd year WR who didn't even get an off-season going into his 2nd year. Whining because he's not Tyreek Hill is literally going to leave you disappointed, because there is only one of those in existence.

Posters bringing up how we should have drafted DK Metcalf in the other thread are pretty much brain dead. DK Metcalf would have stats comparable to Hardman's if he was on this team. Hell swap the two and Hardman would look like DK, because hed be on a team with an elite QB whose only weapon is Tyler ****ing Lockett. We'd have people whining that we should have drafted Hardman over DK.

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

What's wrong?

Dude was always a project.

For the love of God this franchise needs to stop drafting projects in the 2nd rd.

You mean like...

Tanoh Kpassagnon
Breeland Speaks
Mecole Hardman

Better watch out for staylor26 & dlphg9 when criticizing these guys. I know that staylor26 likes the taste of Hardman's cum or Hardman gives a helluva reach around. I think dlphg9 has a hardon for Mecole's cock too.

They should just wait for him after his shift at McDonald's ends in a couple of years. He will fill their man pussies to the max.

[blueprint_one]

I think Reid looks for his second speed receiver to have a certain type to him ie - Jeremy Maclin, Chris Conley, and now Mecole Hardman. Mecole seems like a guy who wants to be the number 1 receiver for a team but he clearly isn't. With Conley and Maclin, I always felt like they had a better understanding of what their role was with the team.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

In what way is it the same, because I'm trying to find a way to make Taysom Hill look like more than a gadget player with his stats and I'm having an extremely hard time.

He's a WR/QB that has put up over the course of 53 games these stats:

Rec yds - 336
Rec tds - 7
Rush yds - 809
Rush tds - 11
Pass yds - 1047
Pass tds - 4
Pass ints - 3

Other than flukey TD numbers there isn't much to work with.

You ****ing people expect too much from a 2nd year WR who didn't even get an off-season going into his 2nd year. Whining because he's not Tyreek Hill is literally going to leave you disappointed, because there is only one of those in existence.

Posters bringing up how we should have drafted DK Metcalf in the other thread are pretty much brain dead. DK Metcalf would have stats comparable to Hardman's if he was on this team. Hell swap the two and Hardman would look like DK, because hed be on a team with an elite QB whose only weapon is Tyler ****ing Lockett. We'd have people whining that we should have drafted Hardman over DK.

you really think that? Metcalf improved from his rookie year and became one of the better WRs in the league. Hardman got worse and if not for the jet sweeps and pitch passes Reid draws up he'd look even worse.

My definition of a gadget player is a player who doesn't fit in the natural flow of the offense. A player who the coach has to draw up plays for them specifically because otherwise they won't get open or won't do the right things when it comes to reading defenses and running correct routes. That's Hardman to a tee. If he could get open naturally and could be a reliable WR, he would have been in the starting lineup when Watkins got hurt and he wouldn't be just the jet sweeps, pitch guy.

But yeah sure. Hardman could be a 1300 yard 10 TD WR like Metcalf but the coaches just choose not to utilize him and they give more snaps and targets to Robinson and Watkins just for shits and giggles. Yeah keep telling yourself that.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

It appears he does not take his craft seriously enough. He is still running the wrong routes or routes incorrectly.
He is an example of where they tried to reach for a position that they thought might be a need, Tyreek, but it was not. Again they saw that Tyreek learned and how good he has become. Hardman has not shown any of that same ability.

No one in the Chiefs organization thought that MH would turn into Tyreek. Some franchises have never drafted a WR as good as Tyreek. Everyone wants to act like Mecole has Tyreek's speed, but it's not even close. Tyreek ran the 2nd fastest 200m race by a high schooler ever. He almost certainly would have been able to qualify for the Olympics.

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

No one in the Chiefs organization thought that MH would turn into Tyreek. Some franchises have never drafted a WR as good as Tyreek. Everyone wants to act like Mecole has Tyreek's speed, but it's not even close. Tyreek ran the 2nd fastest 200m race by a high schooler ever. He almost certainly would have been able to qualify for the Olympics.

Yet they drafted Mecole as a just in case when Reek was in trouble.

[Hoover]

This just supports my opinion that spending a high draft pick on a WR when you already have to get the ball to Hill, Kelce, Hardman, and CEH, is not wise. Not enough balls to go around.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by -King-

you really think that? Metcalf improved from his rookie year and became one of the better WRs in the league. Hardman got worse and if not for the jet sweeps and pitch passes Reid draws up he'd look even worse.

My definition of a gadget player is a player who doesn't fit in the natural flow of the offense. A player who the coach has to draw up plays for them specifically because otherwise they won't get open or won't do the right things when it comes to reading defenses and running correct routes. That's Hardman to a tee. If he could get open naturally and could be a reliable WR, he would have been in the starting lineup when Watkins got hurt and he wouldn't be just the jet sweeps, pitch guy.

But yeah sure. Hardman could be a 1300 yard 10 TD WR like Metcalf but the coaches just choose not to utilize him and they give more snaps and targets to Robinson and Watkins just for shits and giggles. Yeah keep telling yourself that.

You think Metcalf is getting 100+ targets here like he is in Seattle? The situations that both players came into aren't even close. Mecole came into the league with Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, and Sammy Watkins ahead of him. Sure Sammy is injury prone like a mofo, but you can't deny he's talented as hell and the Chiefs made it clear that they believed he was a big time WR.

DK Metcalf was drafted onto a team that only had one other option, Tyler Lockett. The next best target is a TE who had a career year in 2019 with 349 yards.

To say Mecole didn't take a step forward is stupid as ****. He was 100% a gimmick player in 2019. He had 6 TDs and 538 yards on 26 receptions. This is gimmicky:

Scoring a TD nearly 25% of your receptions
20.7 yards per catch (Tyreek Hill's best ypc in a season is 17.0 and in that year he only scored on 14% of his catches)

Mecole increased his

Targets - 34%
Receptions - 37%
Catch rate - 3%
Yards - 4%

It just doesn't seem like he improved because his yards didn't take a dramatic increase and his TDs went down. That's due to him not just running down the field and catching bombs for TDs. He was gimmicky in 2019, the numbers prove that. 2020 numbers show an improvement.

I'm not an expert at watching WRs run routes and I'm not going to pretend to know more about something than I do. So, what I will do is look at and compare stats because I can tell something from those.

If someone wants to show me how he's declined or not progressed I'd be open to it. Lots of people on here like to act like they know a lot more than they do.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

You think Metcalf is getting 100+ targets here like he is in Seattle? The situations that both players came into aren't even close. Mecole came into the league with Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, and Sammy Watkins ahead of him. Sure Sammy is injury prone like a mofo, but you can't deny he's talented as hell and the Chiefs made it clear that they believed he was a big time WR.

DK Metcalf was drafted onto a team that only had one other option, Tyler Lockett. The next best target is a TE who had a career year in 2019 with 349 yards.

To say Mecole didn't take a step forward is stupid as ****. He was 100% a gimmick player in 2019. He had 6 TDs and 538 yards on 26 receptions. This is gimmicky:

Scoring a TD nearly 25% of your receptions
20.7 yards per catch (Tyreek Hill's best ypc in a season is 17.0 and in that year he only scored on 14% of his catches)

Mecole increased his

Targets - 34%
Receptions - 37%
Catch rate - 3%
Yards - 4%

It just doesn't seem like he improved because his yards didn't take a dramatic increase and his TDs went down. That's due to him not just running down the field and catching bombs for TDs. He was gimmicky in 2019, the numbers prove that. 2020 numbers show an improvement.

I'm not an expert at watching WRs run routes and I'm not going to pretend to know more about something than I do. So, what I will do is look at and compare stats because I can tell something from those.

If someone wants to show me how he's declined or not progressed I'd be open to it. Lots of people on here like to act like they know a lot more than they do.

No I don't think Metcalf would get all those receptions. What I do know is that he would start and be great when Watkins went down. I do know that when teams double Kelce and Hill, he'd be a great 3rd option. What I do know is that he'd take a lot of snaps and targets and receptions away from Robinson. Seriously, Robinson had more targets and receptions than Hardman. If not for the pitch plays which I will say Hardman is really good for, robinson might have had more yards and the same number of touchdowns.

And I don't know how you don't think Hardman was better in 2019. His efficiency was nuts that year. He had basically the same number of yards and less touchdowns despite 20 more targets and receptions this year. That's not an upgrade.

I can't believe you think Hardman would be capable of 1300 yards 10 TDs and yet the coaches give more snaps to Robinson. Lol what sense does that make?

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Yet they drafted Mecole as a just in case when Reek was in trouble.

People keep saying this, but I'm pretty sure the organization knew that Hill would be fine. They had all the info available and did there own investigation. The Chiefs have shown they want to give Mahomes weapons. They knew they had big contracts coming up, Sammy and Demarcus weren't expected to stay around, and they didn't want to be caught with their pants down. Mecole was drafted because they wanted to keep supplying Mahomes with weapons. They weren't going to replace Hill with a rookie that had 500 yards receiving his last year in college, because he was fast.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Hoover

This just supports my opinion that spending a high draft pick on a WR when you already have to get the ball to Hill, Kelce, Hardman, and CEH, is not wise. Not enough balls to go around.

This offense runs at peak when there is a good #2 WR and a good OL.

Imo Hardman wouldn’t even be in the league if he just had average speed.

Besides being fast, what else does he excel at?

[poolboy]

I am still holding out hope for Pringle to open a can of.....
Cheetah likes him at that spot

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

People keep saying this, but I'm pretty sure the organization knew that Hill would be fine. They had all the info available and did there own investigation. The Chiefs have shown they want to give Mahomes weapons. They knew they had big contracts coming up, Sammy and Demarcus weren't expected to stay around, and they didn't want to be caught with their pants down. Mecole was drafted because they wanted to keep supplying Mahomes with weapons. They weren't going to replace Hill with a rookie that had 500 yards receiving his last year in college, because he was fast.