Random rule change thought

[DenverChief]

What would my fellow fans of my favorite team, the Kansas City Chiefs, think about a rule change where NY would be required to review any "picking up" of a flag. Obviously they saw something to begin with - think it would be a good idea to require higher level review?

Just thinking....

*edit* for personal fouls only

[DenverChief]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Oh right, duh.... that one is tough because there was helmet-to-helmet contact, but I don't think the defender did anything in terms of targeting. The defender took a step or two forward and then braced for impact.

I think it was dumb that dude launched himself a couple plays later and well, that's fine.

I think the 2nd one had clear intent to destroy the receiver while the first one was just a hard collision that happens sometimes.

Seems people forget this - he was defenseless

it is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

Players in a defenseless posture are:

A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture)

A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player

The intended receiver of a pass in the action during and immediately following an interception or potential interception. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player.

Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenselessplayer by encircling or grasping him

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules...seless-player/

[Molitoth]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

The game probably can’t take the weight of many more slowdowns… as BS as the call was today.

I wait all week for 3 hours on a Sunday... if they make it 4 hours, I don't give a shit. Just get it right!

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DenverChief

Seems people forget this - he was defenseless

So what are you trying to say here: that any contact in that situation should draw a flag? Are we not playing professional football out there? In slo-mo replay, there's not that much to suggest the guy was trying to injure juju. It looked a lot more like it was incidental. He didn't launch himself, he didn't drive his helmet at JuJu, or a forearm.

At the end of the day, it's still football and football is a violent contact sport. Shit happens sometimes.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by DenverChief

Seems people forget this - he was defenseless

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules...seless-player/

Yeah, I just don't know how you really avoid that collision, besides giving up on the play... the guy took a step or two and it was just as much JJSS "running into him" than it was destroying a defenseless receiver.

Avoiding a hit like that, IMO, is basically telling the defender to stop playing football and don't even react to the pass.

Unlike the one a couple plays later where dude launched himself at the receiver.

It's letter of the law vs spirit of the law, IMO.... letter of the law says the JJSS hit was a penalty and the other one wasn't, yet I have no idea what I'd tell the defender on the first one. Uh, don't get in the way? On the second one, it's hey numbnuts, you're going to kill someone.

[DenverChief]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

So what are you trying to say here: that any contact in that situation should draw a flag? Are we not playing professional football out there? In slo-mo replay, there's not that much to suggest the guy was trying to injure juju. It looked a lot more like it was incidental. He didn't launch himself, he didn't drive his helmet at JuJu, or a forearm.

At the end of the day, it's still football and football is a violent contact sport. Shit happens sometimes.

There is no intent required in the rule. Doesn't matter what he was trying to do that's what he did. I'm actually pretty amazed at how many people here will defend what he did when the list of people in the Chiefs organization that feel it was unnecessary includes Big Reg himself. He was about as close to the line as he could get with his displeasure of the "pick up"

[DenverChief]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yeah, I just don't know how you really avoid that collision, besides giving up on the play... the guy took a step or two and it was just as much JJSS "running into him" than it was destroying a defenseless receiver.

Avoiding a hit like that, IMO, is basically telling the defender to stop playing football and don't even react to the pass.

Unlike the one a couple plays later where dude launched himself at the receiver.

It's letter of the law vs spirit of the law, IMO.... letter of the law says the JJSS hit was a penalty and the other one wasn't, yet I have no idea what I'd tell the defender on the first one. Uh, don't get in the way? On the second one, it's hey numbnuts, you're going to kill someone.

Then I guess the Jones sack was a good call then....

[DenverChief]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

So what are you trying to say here: that any contact in that situation should draw a flag? Are we not playing professional football out there? In slo-mo replay, there's not that much to suggest the guy was trying to injure juju. It looked a lot more like it was incidental. He didn't launch himself, he didn't drive his helmet at JuJu, or a forearm.

At the end of the day, it's still football and football is a violent contact sport. Shit happens sometimes.

that collision was shoulder to shoulder then helmet to helmet. The rule states "forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck"

Period end of discussion it was a 15 yard penalty

[Bearcat]

And watching it from this angle... I dunno, shit happens so much faster than seeing it at the right angle afterwards in slomo. Yeah, he could have gone low or I guess tried to make an arm tackle. He definitely took at least a few steps to get right into his path, so I'd change what I said a little in terms of "there's nothing the defender could do".

It's just neutering the defense though if you can't come up and make that play, and the guy did clearly brace for impact as opposed to head-hunt.

#Chiefs WR JuJu Smith-Schuster knocked out of the game due to a scary hit by a #Jaguars defender. Hope he's okay. #ChiefsKingdom pic.twitter.com/uDPi4jGwi9

— Devon Clements (@DevclemNFL) November 13, 2022

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DenverChief

There is no intent required in the rule. Doesn't matter what he was trying to do that's what he did. I'm actually pretty amazed at how many people here will defend what he did when the list of people in the Chiefs organization that feel it was unnecessary includes Big Reg himself. He was about as close to the line as he could get with his displeasure of the "pick up"

More regulation isn't going to make for a better game. It's going to make for more flags, more wasted time, and most importantly it's going to make the game more unwatchable.

Not all that long ago we'd all be shocked that a flag would be thrown in that case. I mean seriously, what the hell is the defender supposed to do, just step out of the way to avoid colliding with the 'defenseless' receiver?

It's football. Players collide violently on crossing routes.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by DenverChief

Then I guess the Jones sack was a good call then....

Nah, that was exactly my point on the 'letter of the law' versus spirit of the rule... the NFL even defended that one by saying "full body weight" and so forth when it was clearly just a guy making a sack.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

And watching it from this angle... I dunno, shit happens so much faster than seeing it at the right angle afterwards in slomo. Yeah, he could have gone low or I guess tried to make an arm tackle. He definitely took at least a few steps to get right into his path, so I'd change what I said a little in terms of "there's nothing the defender could do".

It's just neutering the defense though if you can't come up and make that play, and the guy did clearly brace for impact as opposed to head-hunt.

#Chiefs WR JuJu Smith-Schuster knocked out of the game due to a scary hit by a #Jaguars defender. Hope he's okay. #ChiefsKingdom pic.twitter.com/uDPi4jGwi9

— Devon Clements (@DevclemNFL) November 13, 2022

This. The defender actually just stops and leans his head away from JuJu. I mean, what else can he do? Just say, "Ole!" and let him run by? Do we have to keep putting skirts on these players, or can we just play football?

[DenverChief]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

More regulation isn't going to make for a better game. It's going to make for more flags, more wasted time, and most importantly it's going to make the game more unwatchable.

Not all that long ago we'd all be shocked that a flag would be thrown in that case. I mean seriously, what the hell is the defender supposed to do, just step out of the way to avoid colliding with the 'defenseless' receiver?

It's football. Players collide violently on crossing routes.

What is unwatchable is when players careers are shortened for unnecessary hits. The flag was already thrown - all I'm advocating for is a requirement to actually video review a personal foul penalty. How is getting it right a problem?

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DenverChief

that collision was shoulder to shoulder then helmet to helmet. The rule states "forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck"

Period end of discussion it was a 15 yard penalty

HE DIDN'T FORCIBLY HIT JUJU, DIPTSTICK. HE LITERALLY RAN TO AN AREA IN FRONT OF JUJU AND STOPPED, TURNING HIS HEAD AWAY FROM JUJU.

IF THE RULE SAYS "FORCIBLY," THEN THAT PLAY DOESN'T MEET THE MINIMUM CRITERIA. IT'S ACTUALLY SAFER TO SAY THAT JUJU FORCIBLY HIT THE DEFENDER.

[DenverChief]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Nah, that was exactly my point on the 'letter of the law' versus spirit of the rule... the NFL even defended that one by saying "full body weight" and so forth when it was clearly just a guy making a sack.

you can't argue for both. The spirit of the rule on defenseless receivers was to prevent concussions as they shorten careers dramatically. He could have gone low...

[DenverChief]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

HE DIDN'T FORCIBLY HIT JUJU, DIPTSTICK. HE LITERALLY RAN TO AN AREA IN FRONT OF JUJU AND STOPPED, TURNING HIS HEAD AWAY FROM JUJU.

IF THE RULE SAYS "FORCIBLY," THEN THAT PLAY DOESN'T MEET THE MINIMUM CRITERIA. IT'S ACTUALLY SAFER TO SAY THAT JUJU FORCIBLY HIT THE DEFENDER.

Put the drink down and walk away from the keyboard....you're drunk