Clark Judge: Rating smartest, boldest, scariest offseason moves

[DaneMcCloud]

Rating smartest, boldest, scariest offseason moves
May 13, 2009
By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11743195

Five boldest moves

Kansas City hiring Scott Pioli

Some people automatically put this one in the win column. Not me. Not after Charlie Weis fizzled at Notre Dame and Romeo Crennel bombed out in Cleveland. OK, so they were former New England coaches, and Pioli was a decorated GM. They still fall from the same tree. The question I have is this: How much was Pioli responsible for what happened in New England? "I guess we're about to find out," said one NFC general manager.

The good news is that Thomas Dimitroff had New England ties, too, and he circled the bases in his first turn as a GM in Atlanta. The bad news: Pioli's first draft with Kansas City: There are reaches everywhere. He also reversed the team's Get Young Now policy by adding 30-something discards like Bobby Engram, Zach Thomas, Monty Beisel and Mike Vrabel. You can do that when you're at or near the top, like New England. But this is a team that lost 23 of its last 25, for crying out loud.

Five biggest gambles

Kansas City acquiring Matt Cassel

I know what he did with New England. But that was the Patriots, and tell me where you find Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Richard Seymour and Bill Belichick in the 816 area code. Cassel was surrounded by a raft of talent on the field and on the sidelines in New England, and I'm still looking for that support group here. So he produced a couple of 400-yard passing games and won 10 of 15 starts. That was nice. But I want to see him reproduce it here. OK, I know what you're thinking: What do the Chiefs have to lose -- especially when all they surrendered for Cassel and Vrabel was a second-round draft pick? Try this: They're paying Cassel $14.65 million in guaranteed salary. If he turns out to be the next Scott Mitchell I know some bean counters in red suits who will demand explanations.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Go walk into a burning aids tree.

This might have become trite because of overuse, but one has to admit...it's funny.

Sometimes, and this isn't directed at you, people need to lighten the **** up. It's only an intraweb comment...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

IMHO, the draft board needed some moderator crackdown this past season. Everyone was guilty of name calling, etc. It should be a place for open discussion of prospects and not just "he sucks, and you are stupid. Go walk into a burning aids tree."

Go outside in the fall, set up a telescope, and observe a burning AidsMeteor shower.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

The poll is a different issue altogether.

And there is NOTHING "cryptic" about what I just presented you with, IF you can think outside of draft boards and value charts.

It's not me that needs to think "outside" of anything.

You're basically proposing that you were either FOR trading for Cassel or AGAINST trading for Cassel, and that the pick we traded for him is irrelevant.

The world isn't black and white. Your assertion is preposterous.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

So, in essence, we're supposed to be defending people who act like children?

Mecca: [insert arrogant football post here]

others: you're gay, pillowbiterhair, mom's basement, get a job

If you don't acknowledge the history, sure.

But Mecca was calling people names years ago. This isn't a recent development.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

This might have become trite because of overuse, but one has to admit...it's funny.

Sometimes, and this isn't directed at you, people need to lighten the **** up. It's only an intraweb comment...

But the problem is that people like Dane and Hamas used it to shut down almost any conversation and it was followed by a heaping of insults. If you really step outside of being someone who was in the Sanchez camp and look at most of the conversations, most anyone who threw out a different option for a pick was met with this immediately as well as being called reeruned, true fans, jokes about "Jesus Curry" over and over and over...

To me it's not about the insults necessarily, but more that this place became completely impossible to have an actual football discussion, not because of the n00bs, but because of the intolerance of a few posters to allow ANY other alternatives to their ideas. And most of those threads turned into the same circle jerk where a bunch of people were saying the same dumb phrases over and over again and making each other laugh. It's ironic, because some of the best "football people" according to many on the board, would refuse to actually have a football discussion because of the whole game that was going on all offseason with "true fans."


And with Mecca, come on. He repeatedly would start a thread just FOR controversy. Starting threads like "Someone explain to me what makes Aaron Curry worth the #3 pick," when EVERY thread for the past three months was a debate about that very subject. He would start threads like this and immediately bash anyone who offered up an opinion. What's the point, unless you just like to stir up controversy? That's Mecca's game, and now he is upset because people are playing it? And FWIW, if you look at most of the times he gets sensitive, it's someone disagreeing with him on a take on a certain player, and he says something like, "Are you trying to make me mad." or "Oh, you must just be another person that wants to disagree with me." or a slew of other phrases that we've all seen over and over again when someone simply disagrees with him on a player's value. As if people actually give a shit about making Mecca mad when it comes to liking or disliking a player/prospect. Who does he think he is, really? I'm going to like or dislike a player out of spite for Mecca? The fact is, HE turned every thread into something about him if you really follow it.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by THISmaqe

It's not me that needs to think "outside" of anything.

You're basically proposing that you were either FOR trading for Cassel or AGAINST trading for Cassel, and that the pick we traded for him is irrelevant.

The world isn't black and white. Your assertion is preposterous.

I'm not sure how anyone can't understand this. There is a world of difference between trading a number 3 overall and trading a second rounder for Cassel. It absolutely changes the question.

Just like a conversation DeezNutz and I had about Sanchez a while back. I was totally against drafting him at #3 overall simply because of the overwhelming history against him due to his experience, plus his arm strength, size, etc. However, if we would have traded back anywhere past 15 and he was still around, I would have been OK with drafting him because of the value. The value in getting Cassel at #34 and still being able to draft an elite talent at #3 is a million times a better option than trading Cassel for a #3 pick.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by milkman

No, you haven't.

mecca has been the target of more insults over the years than any single poster not named KCJohnny or mememe.

And yes, he has dished it out, but not nearly as much as he's taken, and until recently, he never instigated it.

I WILL say this: i have NEVER called someone a name here unprovoked, i have been called a reerun, idiot, told i cant read, been threatened MULTIPLE times, slap me choke me with a dictionary(which was the funniest being who it came from) told i was an ignorant grease monkey etc. they put you down while you arent even online then act as though they are a victim when you read through the thread and defend yourself. Maybe thats why you think it's unprovoked

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

IMHO, the draft board needed some moderator crackdown this past season. Everyone was guilty of name calling, etc. It should be a place for open discussion of prospects and not just "he sucks, and you are stupid. Go walk into a burning aids tree."

WTF?

Show me ONE TIME that someone on ANY forum here was banned due to name calling.

Christ, this place is so loosely moderated that people get away with ethnic slurs and racial remarks.

You want moderation, head over to WPI where they ban you for having a differing opinion.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

I WILL say this: i have NEVER called someone a name here unprovoked, i have been called a reerun, idiot, told i cant read, been threatened MULTIPLE times, slap me choke me with a dictionary(which was the funniest being who it came from) told i was an ignorant grease monkey etc. they put you down while you arent even online then act as though they are a victim when you read through the thread and defend yourself. Maybe thats why you think it's unprovoked

Here's what I'm getting at, the point that I was making that got lost in the discussion about mecca specifically after I posted.

Those of us who agreed with or defended mecca's opinion immediately became the target of insults.

I can give as well as I get, so I'm not moaning about that.

What I am saying is that the people accusing the Sanchez camp of initializing the the aggresiveness are making a blatantly false statement.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Forget the value for a second.

You either think he's capable of leading a team to a Super Bowl, or you don't. There's no in-between, it's a simple yes or no question.

If you think he IS capable, then there's no reason you wouldn't have traded the 3rd overall pick for him. A true franchise QB is INVALUABLE.

So it sounds like many of you think he's incapable, but it's OK because we only spent a 2nd round pick.

That pretty much cover it?

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by doomy3

But the problem is that people like Dane and Hamas used it to shut down almost any conversation and it was followed by a heaping of insults. If you really step outside of being someone who was in the Sanchez camp and look at most of the conversations, most anyone who threw out a different option for a pick was met with this immediately as well as being called reeruned, true fans, jokes about "Jesus Curry" over and over and over...

To me it's not about the insults necessarily, but more that this place became completely impossible to have an actual football discussion, not because of the n00bs, but because of the intolerance of a few posters to allow ANY other alternatives to their ideas. And most of those threads turned into the same circle jerk where a bunch of people were saying the same dumb phrases over and over again and making each other laugh. It's ironic, because some of the best "football people" according to many on the board, would refuse to actually have a football discussion because of the whole game that was going on all offseason with "true fans."


And with Mecca, come on. He repeatedly would start a thread just FOR controversy. Starting threads like "Someone explain to me what makes Aaron Curry worth the #3 pick," when EVERY thread for the past three months was a debate about that very subject. He would start threads like this and immediately bash anyone who offered up an opinion. What's the point, unless you just like to stir up controversy? That's Mecca's game, and now he is upset because people are playing it? And FWIW, if you look at most of the times he gets sensitive, it's someone disagreeing with him on a take on a certain player, and he says something like, "Are you trying to make me mad." or "Oh, you must just be another person that wants to disagree with me." or a slew of other phrases that we've all seen over and over again when someone simply disagrees with him on a player's value. As if people actually give a shit about making Mecca mad when it comes to liking or disliking a player/prospect. Who does he think he is, really? I'm going to like or dislike a player out of spite for Mecca? The fact is, HE turned every thread into something about him if you really follow it.

I hear what you're saying, man. I do. And you're right that most of the discussions around draft time degenerated into pissing contests.

To a certain extent,some of that is predicated on the fact that we discussed the shit out of every small detail to the point of exhaustion. People become unnecessarily entrenched in their positions, and thus the insults could fly because, well, there was little else left to do.

I firmly believe--(read: know for a fact) that all of the posters you've mentioned--Dane, Mecca, etc.--are good dudes and willing to engage in high-level argumentation, the kind of stuff that makes this board fun. And they'll be respectful of your disagreement.

But I'm sure we'll disagree on the following, which I do believe is the root problem: Some of the n00bs have changed the overall tenor of this place. And some very strong posters, such as yourself, have accidentally been lumped with those with whom you don't belong. The resulting tension between n00b and vet has been such that knee-jerk reactions have been the norm.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by milkman

Here's what I'm getting at, the point that I was making that got lost in the discussion about mecca specifically after I posted.

Those of us who agreed with or defended mecca's opinion immediately became the target of insults.

I can give as well as I get, so I'm not moaning about that.

What I am saying is that the people accusing the Sanchez camp of initializing the the aggresiveness are making a blatantly false statement.

Did anyone EVER insult you, milkman? If they did, I didn't see it. It's because you are actually capable of having a real discussion.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by THISmaqe

It's not me that needs to think "outside" of anything.

You're basically proposing that you were either FOR trading for Cassel or AGAINST trading for Cassel, and that the pick we traded for him is irrelevant.

The world isn't black and white. Your assertion is preposterous.

I'm presenting you with three quarterbacks. You hold no allegiance, strings, or power with the Chiefs. Who are you putting your money on first? Who's going to make it happen first? Who do YOU pick for YOUR TEAM???

How much simpler can I possibly make this question?

I can't. If you can't grasp the concept now, there's no point in continuing.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by doomy3

Did anyone EVER insult you, milkman? If they did, I didn't see it. It's because you are actually capable of having a real discussion.

That's the thing, right there.

Even though you and I disagreed strongly in a number of discussions, we were able to have civilized debates.

But, yes, there were some who simply resorted to namecalling simply because I disagreed with them, or agreed with mecca or Hamas.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by milkman

That's the thing, right there.

Even though you and I disagreed strongly in a number of discussions, we were able to have civilized debates.

But, yes, there were some who simply resorted to namecalling simply because I disagreed with them, or agreed with mecca or Hamas.

Alright, I never saw those times where someone attacked you for no reason like that. There is a HUGE difference between you and either of the others you mentioned, even though you may have agreed on certain subjects.