OK,My friend asked me for advise......

[ROYC75]

( Hang with me, long read.... What would you do ? ) ( Scott & Rita ) My friend of 15 years here ( my diesel truck / auto mechanic ) asked me for advise. He has 1 daughter ( Mary ) that has 2 kids, she is 27 years old with 2 girls. He asked me because I have 2 daughters thinking I could give him sound advise on what I would do in this situation.

Mary is going thru a divorce, has 2 girls, 3 and 4 years old. Her husband ( William ) has driven her self esteem way down to thinking she is a loser , a slut, etc. All this time while married, she was faithful and kissed his ass. He cheated on her, often and always wanted to have 3 way sex with her.

Now being seperated, she has gone wild. Parties, smoking weed,letting the girls stay up late,having sex with different men and even letting men sleep on the couch and love seat overnight at times. Scott & Rita was talking to her on the phone while Mary was away from the house, taking one of the guys she hangs with to get a burger. They asked her where the girls were, she told them at home with her friends, meaning 2 male friends.

Scott & Rita was livid....... they went off on Mary for leaving the girls with 2 guys, ages from 23 to 30. So mad that they waited till midnight to go visit her.

Suprise, suprise........ at midnight, they walked into Mary's house without notice to find 2 guys asleep in the front room while she was cleaning the house. OH BOY, Mary was pissed and humilated when Scott & Rita cleared the house out,making the young men go away.

They drilled her left and right, telling her she was setting a bad example for the 2 girls. Naturally, Mary couldn't see this, she felt violated that they showed up without warning, just walking right in. She was 27 , an adult, who can live her own life as she choose's.

The jumped on her for no food in the house, more beer than food. More parties and card games than quality time being spent with the girls.

Again, Mary couldn't see this, she was still humiliated and felt violated. This has been a week now and Mary is not speaking to them.

He asked me if they did the right thing, making a visit. Walking right in without warning.

I told him.... If it was me, damn straight, I would really be pissed if one of my 2 daughters acted like that.

I asked both of my daughters if they thought they were right, 1 said Yes, 1 said No, they should have called her 1st.

What would you do ?

[Wile_E_Coyote]

Skip can set her up with Direct TV so the kids can have some educational programming. Then he can council her in the back room, say twice a week

[trndobrd]

First off, what right do Scott and Rita have to enter someone's house at midnight without permission, then tell guests they must leave?

Second, what Mary was doing when they came over unexpectedly? Getting high? Drinking? No, she was cleaning house.

Did she leave the girls alone while she went to get dinner? Nope. Just because Scott and Rita don't know the guy watching the kids, doesn't mean he isn't trustworthy. That's a decision for the parent to make.

How do Scott and Rita know that Mary has been smoking up, drinking, sleeping around,etc.? Did she tell them, or is this something they are hearing third hand?

If my parents pulled a stunt like that, I would tell them to bud the F*** right back out.

Maybe next time they should hire a babysitter for an evening, take her out to dinner, tell her that they are concerned, and that they are willing to help do whatever to ensure the kids are taken care of.

They are a lot less likely to get shot doing that then storming into someone's home at midnight.

[jspchief]

Well, now we know who one of the guys boning Mary is.

[Mosbonian]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Well, now we know who one of the guys boning Mary is.

Now that made me laugh....

mmaddog
*******

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Unfortunately, the threat of losing her kids probably won't be all that effective. If she gave a shit about the kids, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.

Exactly.

Sounds like she's depressed and lacking any level of self-respect at all.

That's a dangerous combo.

[Mosbonian]

Originally Posted by trndobrd

First off, what right do Scott and Rita have to enter someone's house at midnight without permission, then tell guests they must leave?

Second, what Mary was doing when they came over unexpectedly? Getting high? Drinking? No, she was cleaning house.

Did she leave the girls alone while she went to get dinner? Nope. Just because Scott and Rita don't know the guy watching the kids, doesn't mean he isn't trustworthy. That's a decision for the parent to make.

How do Scott and Rita know that Mary has been smoking up, drinking, sleeping around,etc.? Did she tell them, or is this something they are hearing third hand?

If my parents pulled a stunt like that, I would tell them to bud the F*** right back out.

Maybe next time they should hire a babysitter for an evening, take her out to dinner, tell her that they are concerned, and that they are willing to help do whatever to ensure the kids are taken care of.

They are a lot less likely to get shot doing that then storming into someone's home at midnight.

While I agree with certain parts of what you are trying to intimate...it's not just that easy.

First....Mary isn't playing with a full deck or a full set of sensibility right now. First and foremost, as a Mother, her concern should be for the children. And I don't care how you may try and couch it, strange men sleeping on the sofa, beer in the house around kids who are being supervised by new people in their lives, and drugs in a life are all catalysts to tragedy.

As Grandparents, it is their duty to see that their grandchildren are kept out of harm's way. Wonder how they would have felt had thet just left Mary to "sort it out on her own", only later to find out the guys she left her kids with were sexual predators. F*** the "hurting her feelings" crap.

I am never one to believe grandparents shoud intervene in how parents are raising their children, unless of course those doing the parenting are clueless and classless. We spend too much time worrying about adults and their "feelings" that we forget that there are unseen victims left unprotected.

mdog
********

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by mmaddog

While I agree with certain parts of what you are trying to intimate...it's not just that easy.

First....Mary isn't playing with a full deck or a full set of sensibility right now. First and foremost, as a Mother, her concern should be for the children. And I don't care how you may try and couch it, strange men sleeping on the sofa, beer in the house around kids who are being supervised by new people in their lives, and drugs in a life are all catalysts to tragedy.

As Grandparents, it is their duty to see that their grandchildren are kept out of harm's way. Wonder how they would have felt had thet just left Mary to "sort it out on her own", only later to find out the guys she left her kids with were sexual predators. F*** the "hurting her feelings" crap.

I am never one to believe grandparents shoud intervene in how parents are raising their children, unless of course those doing the parenting are clueless and classless. We spend too much time worrying about adults and their "feelings" that we forget that there are unseen victims left unprotected.

mdog
********

I agree; someone needs to look out for the kids' best intests, and the parent wasn't doing that. It's either the grandparents or social services.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by mmaddog

Wonder how they would have felt had thet just left Mary to "sort it out on her own", only later to find out the guys she left her kids with were sexual predators. F*** the "hurting her feelings" crap.

Yeah, 'what if my grown daughter's friends are pedophiles' should be foremost in the minds of all grandparents.
Young folk these days, runnin' around befriending pedophiles. It's all the rage.
I'm with tomataboid, this story is pretty darned skewed.
Anecdotes of drinking, drug use, and anonymous sex are not evidence of such. They are what they are, anecdotes.
And just because the men are strangers to the grandparents, doesn't mean they are strangers to the daughter, or the kids, or that they are by definition sketchy.

And for background, I've seen both sides of it. My own family was your Ozzy/Harriet, first and only marriage for each, stay at home mom, no drinking, no smoking, no neglect.
My mom's brother, who I'd spend most of my time with when we'd visit the family in Louisiana, was shacking up with a lady friend, and had all sorts of friends over at all times. It was more libertine, but it was also the 'white trash' iteration of southern hospitality. So long as you were a friend in need, and there was a bed or couch or recliner free, you had a place to crash.
Granted, I didn't live there for years on end, just a week or so every few months, but I never felt in danger because I trusted my uncle's estimation of people.

[trndobrd]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Well, now we know who one of the guys boning Mary is.

Nice.

[DanT]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Yeah, 'what if my grown daughter's friends are pedophiles' should be foremost in the minds of all grandparents.
Young folk these days, runnin' around befriending pedophiles. It's all the rage.
I'm with tomataboid, this story is pretty darned skewed.
Anecdotes of drinking, drug use, and anonymous sex are not evidence of such. They are what they are, anecdotes.
And just because the men are strangers to the grandparents, doesn't mean they are strangers to the daughter, or the kids, or that they are by definition sketchy.

And for background, I've seen both sides of it. My own family was your Ozzy/Harriet, first and only marriage for each, stay at home mom, no drinking, no smoking, no neglect.
My mom's brother, who I'd spend most of my time with when we'd visit the family in Louisiana, was shacking up with a lady friend, and had all sorts of friends over at all times. It was more libertine, but it was also the 'white trash' iteration of southern hospitality. So long as you were a friend in need, and there was a bed or couch or recliner free, you had a place to crash.
Granted, I didn't live there for years on end, just a week or so every few months, but I never felt in danger because I trusted my uncle's estimation of people.

I agree with Baby Lee. Just because some men are sleeping in the living room of a woman's house, that doesn't make them dangerous. I'd want to know why they are there. Were they just spending the night to avoid driving home drunk? Are they staying there for a few days because they're in desparate straits financially and need to crash with a friend? How long have they been friends with the mom? Details like that could be crucial in deciding what sort of example the mom was setting for her kids.

[trndobrd]

Originally Posted by mmaddog

While I agree with certain parts of what you are trying to intimate...it's not just that easy.

First....Mary isn't playing with a full deck or a full set of sensibility right now. First and foremost, as a Mother, her concern should be for the children. And I don't care how you may try and couch it, strange men sleeping on the sofa, beer in the house around kids who are being supervised by new people in their lives, and drugs in a life are all catalysts to tragedy.

As Grandparents, it is their duty to see that their grandchildren are kept out of harm's way. Wonder how they would have felt had thet just left Mary to "sort it out on her own", only later to find out the guys she left her kids with were sexual predators. F*** the "hurting her feelings" crap.

I am never one to believe grandparents shoud intervene in how parents are raising their children, unless of course those doing the parenting are clueless and classless. We spend too much time worrying about adults and their "feelings" that we forget that there are unseen victims left unprotected.

mdog
********

The question wasn't whether or not the Grandparents should be concerned or try to help their daughter and the grandkids. We both agree that they should.

The question was should the parents have come in the house uninvited at midnight for some kind of 'inspection'. The answer to that is 'no'. The parents have no more moral or legal right to trespass on Mary's property than anyone else. It sounds like the grandparents have control issues that they would show up like that, and the daughter has confidence problems that she wouldn't throw them out on the spot. JMHO.

Were the girls endangered because they were left under the supervision of two males between the ages of 23-30? Perhaps a 14 y/o girl in middle school would be better. Where do the grandparents derive the right to approve or disapprove all babysitters for their grandchildren.

As for the 'more beer than food' issue. That sounds a little sketchy. A previous post mentioned that the girls were both healthy, happy and well fed.

There was a male sleeping in the livingroom? What? No three-way with whipping cream while the little girls run arround the house sticking knives in electric sockets? Seriously, after 5 years of marriage, pehaps daughter is not very comfortable staying alone in a house with 2 young daughters. If they would ask their daughter in a calm, supportive manner they might know the answer.

I understand were you are coming from MD, I just don't think kicking the door in at midnight, kicking people out of someone else's house, and making ultimatiums is a very effective way of dealing with the situation.


Maybe if they offered to babysit one or two nights a week so she can go out and have some fun, with the understanding that she will be at home, sans dope and beer the other nights.

[ROYC75]

Oh, it's gets a little strange by each passing day...........

Mary wants her alternate lifestyle, anytime, anyplace. The men are involved at times with her and allow her to sleep with others and watches the kids. Sounds like an explosion wating to happen when one of them gets jealous.

The next part is the men are staying with a guy, next door. Suppose to be shacked up next door, going home isn't a real problem other than wanting to stay the night for a nightcap.

Now Williams ex girl friend, who has a kid is coming to spend sometime with her and the kids, claiming they need to bond ( the kids ) . Sounds like a setup to me.......

Stupid people do stupid things........

[Mosbonian]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Yeah, 'what if my grown daughter's friends are pedophiles' should be foremost in the minds of all grandparents.
Young folk these days, runnin' around befriending pedophiles. It's all the rage.
I'm with tomataboid, this story is pretty darned skewed.
Anecdotes of drinking, drug use, and anonymous sex are not evidence of such. They are what they are, anecdotes.
And just because the men are strangers to the grandparents, doesn't mean they are strangers to the daughter, or the kids, or that they are by definition sketchy.

And for background, I've seen both sides of it. My own family was your Ozzy/Harriet, first and only marriage for each, stay at home mom, no drinking, no smoking, no neglect.
My mom's brother, who I'd spend most of my time with when we'd visit the family in Louisiana, was shacking up with a lady friend, and had all sorts of friends over at all times. It was more libertine, but it was also the 'white trash' iteration of southern hospitality. So long as you were a friend in need, and there was a bed or couch or recliner free, you had a place to crash.
Granted, I didn't live there for years on end, just a week or so every few months, but I never felt in danger because I trusted my uncle's estimation of people.

Sorry Baby Lee, but this is one time we differ in opinion.

My life was different than yours....and I wished there had been the Ozzie & Harriet life. And I disagree that it is just an anecdote....

And maybe I am different, but anyone I would leave my children with are people that I make my relatives familiar with, even if I am a thousand miles from my closest family.

And while my example of the guys being "pedophiles" may be a bit too extreme, all you have to do is look at headlines every week to see someone who was babysitting kids abusing them. So let's change that to a guy who's a drunk...maybe he drinks so much he isn't paying attention to the kids and they injure themselves and he is passed out somewhere....

There is just as much a chance these guys are irresponsible....when it comes to kids I always err on the side of being overly cautious.

I guess I would rather apologize to my daughter and her friends for being over-protective than have to apologize to my granddaughters for not doing something to protect them if they were in danger.

mmaddog
*******

[Mosbonian]

Originally Posted by trndobrd

The question wasn't whether or not the Grandparents should be concerned or try to help their daughter and the grandkids. We both agree that they should.

The question was should the parents have come in the house uninvited at midnight for some kind of 'inspection'. The answer to that is 'no'. The parents have no more moral or legal right to trespass on Mary's property than anyone else. It sounds like the grandparents have control issues that they would show up like that, and the daughter has confidence problems that she wouldn't throw them out on the spot. JMHO.

Were the girls endangered because they were left under the supervision of two males between the ages of 23-30? Perhaps a 14 y/o girl in middle school would be better. Where do the grandparents derive the right to approve or disapprove all babysitters for their grandchildren.

As for the 'more beer than food' issue. That sounds a little sketchy. A previous post mentioned that the girls were both healthy, happy and well fed.

There was a male sleeping in the livingroom? What? No three-way with whipping cream while the little girls run arround the house sticking knives in electric sockets? Seriously, after 5 years of marriage, pehaps daughter is not very comfortable staying alone in a house with 2 young daughters. If they would ask their daughter in a calm, supportive manner they might know the answer.

I understand were you are coming from MD, I just don't think kicking the door in at midnight, kicking people out of someone else's house, and making ultimatiums is a very effective way of dealing with the situation.


Maybe if they offered to babysit one or two nights a week so she can go out and have some fun, with the understanding that she will be at home, sans dope and beer the other nights.

I'm never for "kicking in the door"....and I agree that this should have been a conversation that BOTH SIDES should have had long before this night.

One thing we are not sure of...did the parents offer to keep the kids so their daughter could have a social life and help ease a little of the pressures I am sure she is feeling now? And if she is really uneasy about staying there by herself there are other alternatives to the course she is choosing now.

As for 23-30 y/o babysitters....yeah I would probably be a little more comfortable with a 14 y/o who probably has taken one of the Red Cross courses than an untrained twenty-something.

There are probably a few gaps of truth in the story on both sides here...and both parties need to communicate better. My only point of contention here....everyone (Mom and her parents)needs to be thinking about the girls and the effects of all of this. Right now, IMO, no one is really thinking about the girls.

mmaddog
*******

[ROYC75]

Originally Posted by trndobrd

Maybe if they offered to babysit one or two nights a week so she can go out and have some fun, with the understanding that she will be at home, sans dope and beer the other nights.

The story goes, the grandparents have offered several times, Mary is sneaky and doesn't want her parents to know what is going on. They actually found out from one of Mary's female friends about her lifestyle.

I feel they have every right to walk in on here and make multiple visits until she comes to her senses. So far the mother/daddy - daughter talks didn't have any effects. So the suprise visit came up..... Now Mary wants to feel violated ?

What about the kids ?

If William finds out ? Now she welcomes his ex ? Smells like a setup to me.