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Old 05-17-2009, 08:26 PM  
Nzoner Nzoner is offline
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According to NFLN KC has had 3 of the top
10 motivational head coaches of all-time.Wow,and 1 piece of hardware to show for it.

10.Bum Phillips
09.Sam Wyche
08.Hank Stram
07.Bill Parcells
06.Bill Cowher
05.George Allen
04.Marty Schottenheimer
03.Jon Gruden
02.Dick Vermeil
01.Vince Lombardi
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:33 AM   #31
Sweet Daddy Hate Sweet Daddy Hate is offline
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Do a search.

You'll find that from the beginning, I was completely against Vermeil and engaged in several heated debates.

Many of which (unfortunately), got really ugly.
When he was hired, the two things that sent up flags for me were:

1) Why are you going to hire a coach that just won a Super Bowl? For one, he just completed a life-long goal. There's no moving the goal post because the goal has been achieved. The guy was old, had vineyard in California, and you can't tell me he was burning 24/7 with the "eye of the tiger". I mean come on.

2) He wasn't a good fit for the mentality of the KC Chiefs football experience. The man was too damned civilized! And then he quit after a great season! WHAT THE **** IS THAT?!
He had some great players and if he were committed to a longer haul in KC, he could very well have led the Chiefs to Super Bowl.
But he didn't. He quit.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:24 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Talent wins championships.
True, but coaching can lose playoff games.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:25 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Vermeil sucked ass.

His "drafts" sent this team back to expansion franchise status.

For future reference, Skip has a hard-on for the Marty years.

Why, I have no idea.
Does Dick Vermeil have the power to spend hours a day scouting college talent? Is he the coach ever the loudest voice in the room on draft day?

To the first point, it's not Vermeil's job to scout and recruit drafted players or free agents. The Chiefs have a whole personnel department that gets paid to specialize in that. To blame Vermeil for something that wasn't in his job description is ridiculous. It's not Vermeil's fault they botched so many drafts. Before you blame Vermeil, you HAVE to blame Peterson (whose hardball tactics kept the cream-of-the-crop out of Kansas City), and then you blame guys like Chuck Cook and especially Lynn Stiles.

To the second point, yes Vermeil screamed for guys like Ryan Sims, but that's the personnel department's job to cross-check to make sure he's got the facts straight. They didn't do nearly enough due diligence. I read a report that said that Lynn Stiles' method of scouting top players was to watch tape, instead of actual workouts, and then ask for recommendations from some of his buddies. That's why we got swindled into taking Sims.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:30 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Does Dick Vermeil have the power to spend hours a day scouting college talent? Is he the coach ever the loudest voice in the room on draft day?

To the first point, it's not Vermeil's job to scout and recruit drafted players or free agents. The Chiefs have a whole personnel department that gets paid to specialize in that. To blame Vermeil for something that wasn't in his job description is ridiculous. It's not Vermeil's fault they botched so many drafts. Before you blame Vermeil, you HAVE to blame Peterson (whose hardball tactics kept the cream-of-the-crop out of Kansas City), and then you blame guys like Chuck Cook and especially Lynn Stiles.

To the second point, yes Vermeil screamed for guys like Ryan Sims, but that's the personnel department's job to cross-check to make sure he's got the facts straight. They didn't do nearly enough due diligence. I read a report that said that Lynn Stiles' method of scouting top players was to watch tape, instead of actual workouts, and then ask for recommendations from some of his buddies. That's why we got swindled into taking Sims.
Regardless of any of the crap you're spewing here, the fact remains that Carl gave his coaches a large voice in the draft room.

The responsibility for the failures of the Chiefs in Carl's 20 years start with Carl, but that doesn't absolve the ****heads he hired to coach this team of any responsibility.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:31 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Raised On Riots View Post
When he was hired, the two things that sent up flags for me were:

1) Why are you going to hire a coach that just won a Super Bowl? For one, he just completed a life-long goal. There's no moving the goal post because the goal has been achieved. The guy was old, had vineyard in California, and you can't tell me he was burning 24/7 with the "eye of the tiger". I mean come on.

2) He wasn't a good fit for the mentality of the KC Chiefs football experience. The man was too damned civilized! And then he quit after a great season! WHAT THE **** IS THAT?!
He had some great players and if he were committed to a longer haul in KC, he could very well have led the Chiefs to Super Bowl.
But he didn't. He quit.
I think you have the facts mixed up. Have you ever seen a Vermeil practice or press conference? You can't possibly tell me the man wasn't fired up to win. And civilized as he was, he had a reputation for running the toughest practices in the league--that's why the Chiefs always seemed to finish strong where other teams fell off.

Of course Vermeil made mistakes. One of his flaws was that he was overly loyal to some of his players and refused to play youth. But at the same token, what youth did the front office actually give him to work with? The Chiefs' personnel department was horrendous and that's not Vermeil's fault. I will again say that had the personnel department done an even AVERAGE job, the Chiefs would have made the Super Bowl. But they didn't--they did a horrendous job. And a team that was only a few pieces away couldn't add those few pieces through multiple drafts or free agency. And that's just embarrassing.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:34 AM   #36
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Regardless of any of the crap you're spewing here, the fact remains that Carl gave his coaches a large voice in the draft room.

The responsibility for the failures of the Chiefs in Carl's 20 years start with Carl, but that doesn't absolve the ****heads he hired to coach this team of any responsibility.
It doesn't absolve the guy. But coaches are not scouts. They're not personnel guys. A GM that gives a coach that much power in personnel decisions is a ****ing idiot. Even top-of-the-line coaches like Holmgren and Shanahan sucked ass when they were given personnel power. It's because you can't coach and do the extensive due diligence and evaluation that dedicated personnel guys can.

Vermeil can recommend players all he wants. But shame on Peterson for giving him the power to do so. Peterson and company had the power to veto any move Vermeil made. And they had the time Vermeil didn't have to sift through lots of film and workouts to tell Vermeil he was wrong. Vermeil is very low on the list of people to blame when it comes to personnel decisions.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:52 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
It doesn't absolve the guy. But coaches are not scouts. They're not personnel guys. A GM that gives a coach that much power in personnel decisions is a ****ing idiot. Even top-of-the-line coaches like Holmgren and Shanahan sucked ass when they were given personnel power. It's because you can't coach and do the extensive due diligence and evaluation that dedicated personnel guys can.

Vermeil can recommend players all he wants. But shame on Peterson for giving him the power to do so. Peterson and company had the power to veto any move Vermeil made. And they had the time Vermeil didn't have to sift through lots of film and workouts to tell Vermeil he was wrong. Vermeil is very low on the list of people to blame when it comes to personnel decisions.
No, the Head Coach and his staff don't have the time to pour over hours and hours of film on every player in the draft.

He and his staff, however, do have the months between the end of the season and the draft to watch film on potential first and second round picks, and more, and to attend workouts and the combines.

You are making excuses for Dick, and this is a poor excuse.

Dick shares the blame, so just stop trying to convince everyone that he doesn't own any responsibility.
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:26 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Nzoner View Post
10 motivational head coaches of all-time.Wow,and 1 piece of hardware to show for it.

10.Bum Phillips
09.Sam Wyche
08.Hank Stram
07.Bill Parcells
06.Bill Cowher
05.George Allen
04.Marty Schottenheimer
03.Jon Gruden
02.Dick Vermeil
01.Vince Lombardi
In all reality, Vermeil does have a piece of hardware. He is on the list for his accomplishments beyond just KC.

Schottenheimer will go down in history as one of the greatest "regular season" coaches of all time. Unfortunately, he will also go down in history as one of the worst "playoff" coaches of all time. Doesn't take away from the fact that he was a great motivator.
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:46 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Reerun_KC View Post
Marty?

Yeah he was really motivational during the playoffs...

I guess sucking your thumb in the fetal position while the other teams embarrased your regular season monster on national TV is motivation, then Marty was King...
The program said that Martys props were due to the fact he had taken 3 crap teams(Browns,Chiefs,Chargers) and turned them all into contenders.Personally,I think he could've done the same in Washington had Snyder been a little more patient.
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:47 AM   #40
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In all reality, Vermeil does have a piece of hardware. He is on the list for his accomplishments beyond just KC.

Schottenheimer will go down in history as one of the greatest "regular season" coaches of all time. Unfortunately, he will also go down in history as one of the worst "playoff" coaches of all time. Doesn't take away from the fact that he was a great motivator.
True,however,my comment was based on one piece of hardware in KC.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:59 AM   #41
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Yeah Marty really had some great offenses and QB's in the Mediocrity years of the Chiefs...
The Chiefs won more games than anyone in the 90s, so Marty must have been doing something right.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:08 AM   #42
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The Chiefs won more games than anyone in the 90s, so Marty must have been doing something right.
It just boggles the mind how readily and easily people accept, and more amazingly, defend Martyocrity.

I bet you think Chuck Knox was a great coach too.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:20 AM   #43
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It just boggles the mind how readily and easily people accept, and more amazingly, defend Martyocrity.

I bet you think Chuck Knox was a great coach too.
It isn't, by definition, mediocrity when you are winning more games than anyone else.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:21 AM   #44
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It just boggles the mind how readily and easily people accept, and more amazingly, defend Martyocrity.

I bet you think Chuck Knox was a great coach too.


Marty never got us where we wanted to go, but enjoying regular season wins is sure better than what we've seen the last couple of years.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:26 AM   #45
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It isn't, by definition, mediocrity when you are winning more games than anyone else.
In sports, the measure of a team isn't how many games you win.

It's measured by championships.

By that measure, the Chiefs were the very definition of mediocre.
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