Chiefs TJ was better than Charles in Cleveland. - Page 3

SenselessChiefsFan · 09-23-2010, 09:36 AM

I know this will catch some grief, but the reality is that other than the 20 yard run against a defense expecting a pass at the end of the first half, JC averaged less than 3 yards a carry and broke no runs of longer than 10 yards.

Charles got the ball on 3-1 at the Cleveland six at 9:31 to go in the third quarter. At that point, TJ had one more carry than Charles. One.

Charles took a two yard loss. At that point, the Chiefs started going to TJ more and more down the stretch.

I won't blame that solely on Charles, it was a combination of blocking, defense, etc.

But, clearly, the match up versus Cleveland favored Thomas Jones. It was evident in nearly every carry other than the one that JC got at the end of the half.

And, if you take out the last for TJ carries, when the Browns new that the Chiefs were going to run the ball to ice the game. If you take out those for carries, TJ averaged over 4 yards a carry in the Cleveland game.

When you really break it down, I think you might actually see what the coaches see.

I will also note that if you take the 56 yard run out of the San Diego game, TJ and JC have the same yards per carry. JC is a tremendous playmaker, but he isn't the workhorse that TJ is and TJ rarely takes a loss. TJ is always falling forward.

JC actually had one more carry than TJ in the San Diego game, but it was called back on a penalty.

Even with all this said, I think JC needs to get on the field more. However, this isn't fantasy football, you have to look at more than just the box score to understand why guys are in the game during certain situations.

**BigMeatballDave** · 09-23-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief

sedated · 09-23-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

So you guys would rather have Jones over Charles?

Yeah......me either. Given 20 carries a game would solve all these debates. Jones had 5 mediocre carries in one game and everyone forgets the half season Charles put together.

Charles did nothing to lose his starting job to Jones. Now were back to rbbc. Yee ****ing haw

that's a false choice. we have both, so its a mute point.

and RBBC is the way it is now in the National Football League.

a question to the Planet whiners - would you rather get 400 carries out of JC this year and then he's done (a la LJ, Eddie George, Jamal Anderson), or limit his carries early, still win, and keep him fresh longer?

Hog's Gone Fishin · 09-23-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedated

that's a false choice. we have both, so its a mute point.

and RBBC is the way it is now in the National Football League.

a question to the Planet whiners - would you rather get 400 carries out of JC this year and then he's done (a la LJ, Eddie George, Jamal Anderson), or limit his carries early, still win, and keep him fresh longer?

I think the coaching staff has the plan. and yes , lets use Charles as needed.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 09-23-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I know this will catch some grief, but the reality is that other than the 20 yard run against a defense expecting a pass at the end of the first half, JC averaged less than 3 yards a carry and broke no runs of longer than 10 yards.

Charles got the ball on 3-1 at the Cleveland six at 9:31 to go in the third quarter. At that point, TJ had one more carry than Charles. One.

Charles took a two yard loss. At that point, the Chiefs started going to TJ more and more down the stretch.

I won't blame that solely on Charles, it was a combination of blocking, defense, etc.

But, clearly, the match up versus Cleveland favored Thomas Jones. It was evident in nearly every carry other than the one that JC got at the end of the half.

And, if you take out the last for TJ carries, when the Browns new that the Chiefs were going to run the ball to ice the game. If you take out those for carries, TJ averaged over 4 yards a carry in the Cleveland game.

When you really break it down, I think you might actually see what the coaches see.

I will also note that if you take the 56 yard run out of the San Diego game, TJ and JC have the same yards per carry. JC is a tremendous playmaker, but he isn't the workhorse that TJ is and TJ rarely takes a loss. TJ is always falling forward.

JC actually had one more carry than TJ in the San Diego game, but it was called back on a penalty.

Even with all this said, I think JC needs to get on the field more. However, this isn't fantasy football, you have to look at more than just the box score to understand why guys are in the game during certain situations.

Why?

**petegz28** · 09-23-2010, 08:14 PM

Sunday was not Charles' day. He ripped the Browns last year and they were hellbent on not letting it happen again. Just as we made sure Cribbs and Harrison weren't going to rip us up again.

Overall though, the playcalling was shitty. Not 1 screen, not 1. We need to get Charles the ball in ways other than handing it off to get defenses to loosen up. He had a nice gain on his 1 reception. We need to get him involved with more screens and HB routes.

I remember a play Elway and the Broncos ran all the time that just killed teams...

HB chips a block and leaks into the area vacated by the LB's. Easy 8-10 yard gain most of the time. We need more things like that. Charles is also going to have to solidify his passblocking so we can run some PA Pass with him in.

But all in all, I have beat this horse and will continue too, Cassel has to complete 3rd and short passes when his number gets called to keep drives going.

SenselessChiefsFan · 09-23-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

So you guys would rather have Jones over Charles?

Yeah......me either. Given 20 carries a game would solve all these debates. Jones had 5 mediocre carries in one game and everyone forgets the half season Charles put together.

Charles did nothing to lose his starting job to Jones. Now were back to rbbc. Yee ****ing haw

If I could only have one for an entire season, yes, I would rather have Jones. Jones is more durable, and the better all around back.

And, when we have to grind out a first down, I want Jones in there, not Charles. Hey, Charles needs to get on the field, but when we MUST get positive yards, Jones is the guy.

I didn't forget the half season that Charles put together. I also didn't forget that he spent the offseason rehabbing from an injury.

TJ is the better all around back. Charles is the more exciting and electrifying player, but that doesn't equal better.

SenselessChiefsFan · 09-23-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROR

Why?

You mean, why post something truthful, articulate and actually based on stats and logic?

I don't know, I thought it would be a nice change for CP.

SenselessChiefsFan · 09-23-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Sunday was not Charles' day. He ripped the Browns last year and they were hellbent on not letting it happen again. Just as we made sure Cribbs and Harrison weren't going to rip us up again.

Overall though, the playcalling was shitty. Not 1 screen, not 1. We need to get Charles the ball in ways other than handing it off to get defenses to loosen up. He had a nice gain on his 1 reception. We need to get him involved with more screens and HB routes.

I remember a play Elway and the Broncos ran all the time that just killed teams...

HB chips a block and leaks into the area vacated by the LB's. Easy 8-10 yard gain most of the time. We need more things like that. Charles is also going to have to solidify his passblocking so we can run some PA Pass with him in.

But all in all, I have beat this horse and will continue too, Cassel has to complete 3rd and short passes when his number gets called to keep drives going.

#1) I agree that the play calling has not been great.

#2) Cassel did a pretty good job completing passes on third down in the second half of the Cleveland game. (Let's hope this is the start of him becoming a solid game manager.)

I am looking forward to the Chiefs after the bye. I think Weis will have had more time to really figure out what this team does best in games.

Calitozoni · 09-23-2010, 08:25 PM

Charlie Weis needs more carries.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 09-23-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calitozoni

Charlie Weis needs more carries.

He's been "carried" plenty in that damned scooter of his, fat ****.

JoeyChuckles · 09-23-2010, 09:26 PM

Houshmanzadah? Not likely. I don't think he was anywhere near Cleveland.

Pioli Zombie · 09-23-2010, 09:26 PM

I believe a few posts back somebody actually said something was a "mute point".
I thought it needed to be pointed out.

Pioli Zombie · 09-23-2010, 09:28 PM

I just discovered Mike Singletary's playbook
www.doodie.com.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 09-23-2010, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

I just discovered Mike Singletary's playbook
www.doodie.com.

**Mr. Kotter** · 09-23-2010, 09:52 PM

Jamal needs more carries, and Cassel (to this point) sucks???

Just sayin....

09-23-2010, 09:36 AM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	TJ was better than Charles in Cleveland. I know this will catch some grief, but the reality is that other than the 20 yard run against a defense expecting a pass at the end of the first half, JC averaged less than 3 yards a carry and broke no runs of longer than 10 yards. Charles got the ball on 3-1 at the Cleveland six at 9:31 to go in the third quarter. At that point, TJ had one more carry than Charles. One. Charles took a two yard loss. At that point, the Chiefs started going to TJ more and more down the stretch. I won't blame that solely on Charles, it was a combination of blocking, defense, etc. But, clearly, the match up versus Cleveland favored Thomas Jones. It was evident in nearly every carry other than the one that JC got at the end of the half. And, if you take out the last for TJ carries, when the Browns new that the Chiefs were going to run the ball to ice the game. If you take out those for carries, TJ averaged over 4 yards a carry in the Cleveland game. When you really break it down, I think you might actually see what the coaches see. I will also note that if you take the 56 yard run out of the San Diego game, TJ and JC have the same yards per carry. JC is a tremendous playmaker, but he isn't the workhorse that TJ is and TJ rarely takes a loss. TJ is always falling forward. JC actually had one more carry than TJ in the San Diego game, but it was called back on a penalty. Even with all this said, I think JC needs to get on the field more. However, this isn't fantasy football, you have to look at more than just the box score to understand why guys are in the game during certain situations.
Posts: 5,540

09-23-2010, 08:14 PM	#35
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1095873	Sunday was not Charles' day. He ripped the Browns last year and they were hellbent on not letting it happen again. Just as we made sure Cribbs and Harrison weren't going to rip us up again. Overall though, the playcalling was shitty. Not 1 screen, not 1. We need to get Charles the ball in ways other than handing it off to get defenses to loosen up. He had a nice gain on his 1 reception. We need to get him involved with more screens and HB routes. I remember a play Elway and the Broncos ran all the time that just killed teams... HB chips a block and leaks into the area vacated by the LB's. Easy 8-10 yard gain most of the time. We need more things like that. Charles is also going to have to solidify his passblocking so we can run some PA Pass with him in. But all in all, I have beat this horse and will continue too, Cassel has to complete 3rd and short passes when his number gets called to keep drives going.
Posts: 132,492

09-23-2010, 08:25 PM	#39
Calitozoni Starter Join Date: Aug 2010 Casino cash: $9576877	Charlie Weis needs more carries.
Posts: 32

09-23-2010, 09:26 PM	#41
JoeyChuckles Bring It Home Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Haverbrook Casino cash: $10007012	Houshmanzadah? Not likely. I don't think he was anywhere near Cleveland.
Posts: 4,322

09-23-2010, 09:26 PM	#42
Pioli Zombie Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: olathe,kansas Casino cash: $10004900	I believe a few posts back somebody actually said something was a "mute point". I thought it needed to be pointed out.
Posts: 11,077

09-23-2010, 09:28 PM	#43
Pioli Zombie Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: olathe,kansas Casino cash: $10004900	I just discovered Mike Singletary's playbook www.doodie.com.
Posts: 11,077

09-23-2010, 09:52 PM	#45
Mr. Kotter The Dude Abides Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dakota Country Casino cash: $3254285	Jamal needs more carries, and Cassel (to this point) sucks??? Just sayin.... __________________ "I've always said I worry about legacy and winning rings more than making money at this moment...We see what's going on around the league, but at the same time, I'll never do anything that's going to hurt us from keeping the great players around me.”
Posts: 46,901