Tight End

[Chargem]

I think everyone agrees the biggest priorities for the off season are DL, T, and WR in some order so just taking the conversation in a slightly different direction.

The Chiefs have played a lot of 12 and 13 personnel this year, and it has generally been very effective. Next year its Fortson's last cheap year, Gray will be going into year 3.

How would you feel if the Chiefs took a tight end in the 1st or 2nd round?

Are there any tight end prospects you like in the top half of the draft?

What about free agents?

[Wilson8]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Here's the thing, and y'all can disagree, and probably will, but-
Any TE you put on the roster (or the ones we have) is not going to get a ton of looks because you have Kelce. I mean, it's just the way it is.
Even in 2 TE sets, Mahomes is going to look Kelce first, because, well, he's Travis Kelce.
So while we'd like to have a replacement ready to go whenever Kelce is less Kelce-like, I don't think it's going to work like that.
I'm not convinced that Gray isn't a TE1 on most teams, for instance. But he's not going to put up TE1 numbers on a team with Travis Kelce.
So while I'm not against drafting a TE, I don't know that I'd do it super early, because I don't think it's going to move the needle at all.
The path to meaningful snaps and more importantly targets is blocked.
So you're basically spending high draft capital to pick a guy that you're really going to utilize to the fullest about the time their rookie deal is up.
That just doesn't seem like a good use of a high pick.
but that's just me.

Very good points. For those reasons KC should not invest a 1st round pick on a TE until Kelce decides to retire.

The Chiefs have invested at a very minor level at TE with Noah Gray (5-162), Jody Fortson (UDFA receiver converted to TE), Blake Bell (FA on low $ contracts), Nick Keizer (FA on minimum contract), Deon Yelder (FA on minimum contract), Alex Ellis (FA on minimum contract), Demetrius Harris (UDFA converted basketball player), Orson Charles (FA on minimum contract), James O'Shaughnessy (5-173), Brian Parker (waiver wire claim on minimum contract), Phillip Supernaw (FA on minimum contract), Richard Gordon (FA on minimum contract), Anthony Fasano (FA in 2013 with $16M contract, terminated after earning $9M), and Travis Kelce (3-63 also in 2013 first year of Andy). There were others that never made it out of camp. We have tried the former basketball player conversion a few times.

The Chiefs with luck, skill, and coaching with Travis Kelce have been very successful at the TE position.

BUT...

I think the Chiefs could still be better at TE with the right player.

Maybe with one of the 4th round picks we can strike gold? George Kittle was a 5th round pick (5-146).

[Wilson8]

If you look at the NFL draft of the TE position from the last 10 years, it is littered with failure.

What makes a player like Travis Kelce or George Kittle be so successful? They both had physical gifts that showed but Kittle's receiving stats weren't that good. He was known as a good blocker. Travis his Senior year was good with 45 catches, 722 yards, and 8 TDs. Not much before that.

40 times won't tell, although being a good athlete helps. Stats won't help. There were some pretty good college players that failed in the NFL.

[Wilson8]

If available in the 4th round -

Luke Schoonmaker, Michigan, 6-5, 251, 4.63 40 time, 2022 - 12 games, 35 catches, 418 yards, 3 TDs.

He will be 25 years old for 2023 but not looking for him to be a long term replacement to Kelce, but someone to contribute this year.

[bigjosh]

Originally Posted by Wilson8

If you look at the NFL draft of the TE position from the last 10 years, it is littered with failure.

What makes a player like Travis Kelce or George Kittle be so successful? They both had physical gifts that showed but Kittle's receiving stats weren't that good. He was known as a good blocker. Travis his Senior year was good with 45 catches, 722 yards, and 8 TDs. Not much before that.

40 times won't tell, although being a good athlete helps. Stats won't help. There were some pretty good college players that failed in the NFL.

In any draft, Every single position on the field is littered with failures at the nfl level.

There are over 200 people drafted every year and a majority of them never see a second contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kozzman555]

Originally Posted by Kiimosabi

You guys sure about that

Pretty sure. https://www.nfl.com/videos/zack-kunt...t-2023-combine

I'd attach a picture of my dick, but nobody wants to see that except Direckshun

[Kiimo]

Originally Posted by kozzman555

Pretty sure. https://www.nfl.com/videos/zack-kunt...t-2023-combine

I'd attach a picture of my dick, but nobody wants to see that except Direckshun

Cool maybe read my post

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Kiimosabi

You guys sure about that

Yeah, about as 100% as I can be. He is nowhere near a 4.3. Not even in the realm of possibility. The clock wasn't wonky. Do you think he runs as fast or faster than Jalin Hyatt, Marvin Mims, Tyler Scott, etc on tape? If your answer is "not even close," then I think that's all you really need. 4.55 looks extremely accurate actually.

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Here's the thing, and y'all can disagree, and probably will, but-

Any TE you put on the roster (or the ones we have) is not going to get a ton of looks because you have Kelce. I mean, it's just the way it is.

Even in 2 TE sets, Mahomes is going to look Kelce first, because, well, he's Travis Kelce.

So while we'd like to have a replacement ready to go whenever Kelce is less Kelce-like, I don't think it's going to work like that.

I'm not convinced that Gray isn't a TE1 on most teams, for instance. But he's not going to put up TE1 numbers on a team with Travis Kelce.

So while I'm not against drafting a TE, I don't know that I'd do it super early, because I don't think it's going to move the needle at all.

The path to meaningful snaps and more importantly targets is blocked.

So you're basically spending high draft capital to pick a guy that you're really going to utilize to the fullest about the time their rookie deal is up.

That just doesn't seem like a good use of a high pick.

but that's just me.

I guess my counter point would be, by that logic should you bother drafting a WR? Mahomes will look at Kelce first, instead of that WR, because he's Travis Kelce.

I do mostly agree with you, I would say that a TE is not the best use of a high pick, where as you say that its not a good use of a high pick.

I do have absolute certainty that if they were to take one of the top few TE from this class, Andy would make good use of them and the offense would be improved, so I would be okay with it. I guess I am not as high on Noah as you.

I don't think it will happen, but I would actually love to see Darnell Washington go to the Chiefs in the 2nd round, of all the tight ends. I think he would complement the other TEs on the roster currently in 12 and 13 personnel and really put defenses in a bind in terms of personnel to try and match up.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Chargem

I guess my counter point would be, by that logic should you bother drafting a WR? Mahomes will look at Kelce first, instead of that WR, because he's Travis Kelce.

I do mostly agree with you, I would say that a TE is not the best use of a high pick, where as you say that its not a good use of a high pick.

I do have absolute certainty that if they were to take one of the top few TE from this class, Andy would make good use of them and the offense would be improved, so I would be okay with it. I guess I am not as high on Noah as you.

I don't think it will happen, but I would actually love to see Darnell Washington go to the Chiefs in the 2nd round, of all the tight ends. I think he would complement the other TEs on the roster currently in 12 and 13 personnel and really put defenses in a bind in terms of personnel to try and match up.

Well, Kelce's going to get 100 plus targets, he just is.

All the talk of 'easing the load' isn't going to happen. And it probably shouldn't. The wear and tear and years of use adds up whether he gets the ball or not. It's not like a running back, where the mileage is in the carries.

Gray is just a good example of a young player who's path to playing time is blocked somewhat by an established star. Using more 21 personnel is his only real path to more snaps, which the Chiefs have been using. I think he's looked pretty good when targeted. Of course, that's not really all that often-because Kelce. And nobody you draft is going to unseat Kelce until he's declined by a noticeable amount.

Which is fine.

But if you spend a high draft pick, you're only really going to see significant returns about when it's time to sign them to the second contract.

In the case of the WR room, we don't have an established superstar. So yeah, there are plenty of targets available. I think I'm higher than a lot of people on this WR class, but it's not a top 15 weighted class. A lot of second rounders with only a few first rounders. That's not to say there aren't future stars in the group. I think there could be. I'd take one no later than the third I think.

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, Kelce's going to get 100 plus targets, he just is.

All the talk of 'easing the load' isn't going to happen. And it probably shouldn't. The wear and tear and years of use adds up whether he gets the ball or not. It's not like a running back, where the mileage is in the carries.

Gray is just a good example of a young player who's path to playing time is blocked somewhat by an established star. Using more 21 personnel is his only real path to more snaps, which the Chiefs have been using. I think he's looked pretty good when targeted. Of course, that's not really all that often-because Kelce. And nobody you draft is going to unseat Kelce until he's declined by a noticeable amount.

Which is fine.

But if you spend a high draft pick, you're only really going to see significant returns about when it's time to sign them to the second contract.

In the case of the WR room, we don't have an established superstar. So yeah, there are plenty of targets available. I think I'm higher than a lot of people on this WR class, but it's not a top 15 weighted class. A lot of second rounders with only a few first rounders. That's not to say there aren't future stars in the group. I think there could be. I'd take one no later than the third I think.

I completely agree, even if the Chiefs traded up and selected a TE, I don't see Kelce's targets decreasing. I do think with the current WR group, there might be more targets available for TE2/3, meaning a reasonable percentage of JJSS's targets could be replaced via TE targets for the coming season.

I see your perspective that a TE2 is not getting enough targets to justify a 1st round pick. I'm only suggesting that I trust Andy to lean into multiple tight end sets and make it worth it, if it were to happen. But I don't think it will happen, so probably irrelevant.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Chargem

I completely agree, even if the Chiefs traded up and selected a TE, I don't see Kelce's targets decreasing. I do think with the current WR group, there might be more targets available for TE2/3, meaning a reasonable percentage of JJSS's targets could be replaced via TE targets for the coming season.

I see your perspective that a TE2 is not getting enough targets to justify a 1st round pick. I'm only suggesting that I trust Andy to lean into multiple tight end sets and make it worth it, if it were to happen. But I don't think it will happen, so probably irrelevant.

I trust Andy to figure out about anything personnel wise. His greatest strength, in my opinion, is figuring out what guys do well and utilizing it. That and his ability to diagnose a defense's rules and exploit them.

I won't bitch if they grab a TE early, I just think they won't.