Chiefs Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation - Page 31

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-14-2009, 11:24 AM

Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from.

One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team."

Let me make this clear: I do not disagree.

However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse.

And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple:

The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation.

I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought.

Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization.

And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors.

Two. Out of forty-five.

That's a whopping 4% success rate.

I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players.

Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's.

Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's.

And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC.

With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players.

Let the excuses flow like fine wine.

Discus.

This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.

Fish · 12-16-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

ummmmm what?

Im saying you build to your strengths. Period.

No, you're not. You're saying build to the strength of only your current QB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

It is far from ridiculous my friend. What good is it to draft a playmaking WR that his specialty is speed when we just traded for and signed to a long deal a qb that struggles mightily with the deep ball?

That QB could be replaced. Then we'd have a QB who doesn't struggle with the long ball, but still no WR with speed enough to stretch the field. And still no return man to field kicks.

Give the most important position on the offense the best and most versatile weapons available. That includes a WR with speed. One who could also return kicks would be a great asset at the moment. We have a big slow possession WR already in Bowe. Compliment that with other skills... like speeeeeed....

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-16-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Members who think the Chiefs can do no right are just as bad as those who think they can do no wrong.

You act like praise isn't given, and that's flat-out bullshit.

Praise is given when something is done to earn it.

Succop has turned out to be a great pick.

Chambers has as well, though I think Pioli was not the only GM in the league willing to take a "chance" on him. Picking him up was a no-brainer.

Otherwise, show me what they've done to deserve praise that we've missed.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-16-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Members who think the Chiefs can do no right are just as bad as those who think they can do no wrong.

There's a difference between fact and fiction, Champ.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-16-2009, 05:03 PM

zilla,

I have praised Pioli for several things:

1) Firing Herm
2) Trading Gonzalez
3) Cutting Johnson
4) Trading Thigpen

It's absolute bullshit to claim that none of us ever give him credit for things that he does. I have several times, and the times that I was lukewarm or mocking of a move that he made that did work out (Chambers), I gladly ate my crow.

The most angering thing about this site is that there are people who view the Chiefs like a five year old who loves his dad and how a 25 year old loves his dad.

Both still care for the person/team, but one does so through an intentional lobotomizing and removing of all critical thinking.

You can still be a Chiefs fan and be highly critical of the moves you want them to make. I don't bitch about these moves to bitch, I bitch about these moves because I want the team to win.

When the Chiefs missed the playoffs in '96, I took off my Chiefs hat, doused it in lighter fluid, set it on fire and pissed on it.

When they got eliminated from the playoffs in '97, I took my magnetic NFL schedule and dry erase board and took a bat to the ****er.

When Tomlinson broke that run after the ****ed up blocked punt call on SNF in 2006 I broke a coffee table.

People mistake critical thinking for not being a fan because it's easier to assume that everything is perfect and that the people behind the curtain know what they are doing. You don't have to deal with the reality that Pioli is a charlatan, Haley is incompetent, and that this team is headed for another half decade of irrelevance. But that doesn't change the fact that if these moves continue to happen that the Chiefs will continue to suck in perpetuity.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-16-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Fish

No, there wasn't a Matt Ryan. However, there was a Mark Sanchez, a B.J. Raji, a Clay Matthews, a Brian Cushing, a Percy Harvin, a Eugene Monroe, etc. available. All of which have become foundational players.

On that list, most of those guys didn't have much positional value, and of those who have, only Harvin has played well enough to suggest that he's a "foundational" player.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-16-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

zilla,

I have praised Pioli for several things:

1) Firing Herm
2) Trading Gonzalez
3) Cutting Johnson
4) Trading Thigpen

Hell, I think you're being generous by giving him praise for doing 4 things any GM in the league would have done in his position.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-16-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

On that list, most of those guys didn't have much positional value, and of those who have, only Harvin has played well enough to suggest that he's a "foundational" player.

And Jackson had positional value?

You're missing the point - if we were going to ignore positional value, why not get a ****ing playmaker?

I'm sorry, but your delusional if you think those players aren't "core" or "foundational" players.

**BossChief** · 12-16-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

And when you don't have any strengths, you take the most talented player at an impact position.

Crabtree and Maclin both came from the spread and Crabtree just had ungodly numbers in it. Like 40tds in 2 years

I wanted Orakpo and feel he or Crabtree would have drastically upgraded our team. DRASTICALLY

I still cant fathom how much this board hated Orakpo, before I showed up here I thought he would be the consensus favorite of the board. I wish I would have spoken up about him more, but I was kinda intimidated because of the consensus hatred for him here and was still (and kinda am to some here) an outsider.

speed
production
strength
size
intensity

What was the "selling case" of why the hatred ran so deep for him? Had to be more than "because he was from Texas and he sucks"

Oh well...

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-16-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Crabtree and Maclin both came from the spread and Crabtree just had ungodly numbers in it. Like 40tds in 2 years

I wanted Orakpo and feel he or Crabtree would have drastically upgraded our team. DRASTICALLY

I still cant fathom how much this board hated Orakpo, before I showed up here I thought he would be the consensus favorite of the board. I wish I would have spoken up about him more, but I was kinda intimidated because of the consensus hatred for him here and was still (and kinda am to some here) an outsider.

speed
production
strength
size
intensity

What was the "selling case" of why the hatred ran so deep for him? Had to be more than "because he was from Texas and he sucks"

Oh well...

I wanted nothing to do with Orapko because Texas players have not translated well to the NFL in recent years. Far too many busts.

The fact is that Orapko plays on a pretty good defense with a decent push up front. He may or may not continue at this pace but to date, he's been a very solid pass rusher.

philfree · 12-16-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Crabtree and Maclin both came from the spread and Crabtree just had ungodly numbers in it. Like 40tds in 2 years

I wanted Orakpo and feel he or Crabtree would have drastically upgraded our team. DRASTICALLY

I still cant fathom how much this board hated Orakpo, before I showed up here I thought he would be the consensus favorite of the board. I wish I would have spoken up about him more, but I was kinda intimidated because of the consensus hatred for him here and was still (and kinda am to some here) an outsider.

speed
production
strength
size
intensity

What was the "selling case" of why the hatred ran so deep for him? Had to be more than "because he was from Texas and he sucks"
Oh well...

That was it for the most part. The local gurus said Texas players don't live up to their hype and everyone got on board. I kind of went with'em on it.

PhilFree

**DeezNutz** · 12-16-2009, 05:19 PM

The burn from Derrick Johnson still stings.

There's a larger trend for sure, and we have a local example. There was also talk of him disappearing in big games, IIRC.

But with Charles emerging, most of CP will probably be pro Texas...

.

Mecca · 12-16-2009, 05:21 PM

Hey if LJ hadn't been cut Charles would still never be playing.

**DeezNutz** · 12-16-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Hey if LJ hadn't been cut Charles would still never be playing.

Thank you, Scott Pioli. Glad to see the evaluations have been spot on.

But, in fairness, he had only seen LJ in about 6-7 games or whatever the **** it was.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-16-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

That was it for the most part. The local gurus said Texas players don't live up to there hype and everyone got on board. I kind of went with'em on it.

PhilFree

The proof is in the pudding.

Guys like DJ, Mike Williams, Limas Sweed, VY (until 7 games in this season), etc. haven't exactly set the league on fire.

CoMoChief · 12-16-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

They've lost more games with Crabtree than without Crabtree.

Yeah it's definately Crabtree thats causing the 49ers to lose more when he's played.

Comments like this make me want to barf......everywhere.

12-14-2009, 11:24 AM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2041115	Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from. One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team." Let me make this clear: I do not disagree. However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse. And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple: The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation. I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought. Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization. And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors. Two. Out of forty-five. That's a whopping 4% success rate. I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players. Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's. Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's. And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC. With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players. Let the excuses flow like fine wine. Discus. This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.
Posts: 60,758

12-16-2009, 05:03 PM	#454
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	zilla, I have praised Pioli for several things: 1) Firing Herm 2) Trading Gonzalez 3) Cutting Johnson 4) Trading Thigpen It's absolute bullshit to claim that none of us ever give him credit for things that he does. I have several times, and the times that I was lukewarm or mocking of a move that he made that did work out (Chambers), I gladly ate my crow. The most angering thing about this site is that there are people who view the Chiefs like a five year old who loves his dad and how a 25 year old loves his dad. Both still care for the person/team, but one does so through an intentional lobotomizing and removing of all critical thinking. You can still be a Chiefs fan and be highly critical of the moves you want them to make. I don't bitch about these moves to bitch, I bitch about these moves because I want the team to win. When the Chiefs missed the playoffs in '96, I took off my Chiefs hat, doused it in lighter fluid, set it on fire and pissed on it. When they got eliminated from the playoffs in '97, I took my magnetic NFL schedule and dry erase board and took a bat to the **er. When Tomlinson broke that run after the **ed up blocked punt call on SNF in 2006 I broke a coffee table. People mistake critical thinking for not being a fan because it's easier to assume that everything is perfect and that the people behind the curtain know what they are doing. You don't have to deal with the reality that Pioli is a charlatan, Haley is incompetent, and that this team is headed for another half decade of irrelevance. But that doesn't change the fact that if these moves continue to happen that the Chiefs will continue to suck in perpetuity. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

12-16-2009, 05:21 PM	#462
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-762950	Hey if LJ hadn't been cut Charles would still never be playing.
Posts: 115,406