According to NFLN KC has had 3 of the top

[Nzoner]

10 motivational head coaches of all-time.Wow,and 1 piece of hardware to show for it.

10.Bum Phillips
09.Sam Wyche
08.Hank Stram
07.Bill Parcells
06.Bill Cowher
05.George Allen
04.Marty Schottenheimer
03.Jon Gruden
02.Dick Vermeil
01.Vince Lombardi

[milkman]

Originally Posted by PastorMikH

Marty never got us where we wanted to go, but enjoying regular season wins is sure better than what we've seen the last couple of years.

So let's settle for some more mediocrity.


Yay!

[Nzoner]

Originally Posted by milkman

It just boggles the mind how readily and easily people accept, and more amazingly, defend Martyocrity.

I won't defend the Martyocrity but I will defend his spot in this list by referring to a clip I seen where DT had just made a bad play and the other team had tied the game.He came sulking to the sideline and sat on the bench and Marty comes over to him and kneels and says,something like,"Derrick,look at me young man,look at me,it was one play,you have to let it go,we're back to zero-zero,we need you,so let it go."

It was something along those lines short and to the point but it made me think of losing a big sale in my profession and thinking if I'd had a coach like that I'd been ready to kick ass.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Nzoner

I won't defend the Martyocrity but I will defend his spot in this list by referring to a clip I seen where DT had just made a bad play and the other team had tied the game.He came sulking to the sideline and sat on the bench and Marty comes over to him and kneels and says,something like,"Derrick,look at me young man,look at me,it was one play,you have to let it go,we're back to zero-zero,we need you,so let it go."

It was something along those lines short and to the point but it made me think of losing a big sale in my profession and thinking if I'd had a coach like that I'd been ready to kick ass.

I am not saying that Marty was incompetent.

He did a lot of things well, among those was motivating and teaching.

But the fact remains, when the team needed a coach in the playoffs, one who wasn't afraid to lose in the quest to win, Marty was not that coach.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by Nzoner

10 motivational head coaches of all-time.Wow,and 1 piece of hardware to show for it.

10.Bum Phillips
09.Sam Wyche
08.Hank Stram
07.Bill Parcells
06.Bill Cowher
05.George Allen
04.Marty Schottenheimer
03.Jon Gruden
02.Dick Vermeil
01.Vince Lombardi

You can't tell me John Mackovic wasn't an inspration to every life he touched.

[Crush]

What is your favorite Marty moment? There are so many to choose from.

Mastering the intricacies of the run, run, pass, punt offense.
Pretending to go for it on 4th Down in an effort to draw off the defense... again.
Getting routed by the Bills in Buffalo on a consistent basis.
Losing the division to an inferior Chargers team in '94.
In Steve Bono, I Trust.
Grbac over Gannon
Monday Night Meltdown
Underachieving during the big games.

[Nzoner]

Originally Posted by Admiral Crunch

Grbac over Gannon

I blame King Carl for that mess.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Admiral Crunch

What is your favorite Marty moment? There are so many to choose from.

Mastering the intricacies of the run, run, pass, punt offense.
Pretending to go for it on 4th Down in an effort to draw off the defense... again.
Getting routed by the Bills in Buffalo on a consistent basis.
Losing the division to an inferior Chargers team in '94.
In Steve Bono, I Trust.
Grbac over Gannon
Monday Night Meltdown
Underachieving during the big games.

I'm gonna' go with, "made a post-Stram pile of dogshit worthy of my time and money".

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

No, the Head Coach and his staff don't have the time to pour over hours and hours of film on every player in the draft.

He and his staff, however, do have the months between the end of the season and the draft to watch film on potential first and second round picks, and more, and to attend workouts and the combines.

You are making excuses for Dick, and this is a poor excuse.

Dick shares the blame, so just stop trying to convince everyone that he doesn't own any responsibility.

Does Dick share the blame? Of course he does. But like I said, he falls low on the list in the blame for personnel decisions. Vermeil may like a player and recommend him. It is the staff's job to sift through hours of film, interviews and workout evaluations to "fact check." It is widely known that Lynn Stiles was a lazy SOB when it came to that due diligence. His idea of scouting was to call a few buddies and ask their advice, and then to rely on some film instead of evaluating players live. Vermeil's job was to recommend. The personnel staff, particularly Stiles', job was to confirm they made the right decision.

But it goes beyond that. Is Vermeil trained to grill interviewees to see if they're soft? Probably not. Is he as well-versed in how workout information can dictate potential? Probably not. Does Vermeil have time during the season to watch film of these players? Probably not. In light of the million things he has to do, is he looking at in-depth tape on all these guys? Probably not. During draft season, amid OTAs, planning for the next season, evaluating the current roster, meetings with players and coaches, etc... does Vermeil have a full work day to commit to scouting evaluations? No.

Most of those roles involve dedicated specialists and it is their 40+ hour a week job for a full year to specialize well. Scouting for draft picks is not Vermeil's full-time job. I'm sorry, but when it comes to draft picks, I blame the guys who are supposed to be specializing in drafting, not the head coach who slips into the role for a few hours out of the year. Vermeil does some scouting, but it's not his main job. In fact, it's very low on his list of a million things that he is asked to do. Lynn Stiles deserves the vast majority of the blame for poor personnel decisions. Personnel decisions was his full-time job description.

[melbar]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Yeah Marty really had some great offenses and QB's in the Mediocrity years of the Chiefs...

The Mediocrity years? We won more games than anyone during those years. We choked in the playoffs, but those teams were anything but Mediocre.

[melbar]

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

I'm gonna' go with, "made a post-Stram pile of dogshit worthy of my time and money".

ditto to that!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by melbar

The Mediocrity years? We won more games than anyone during those years. We choked in the playoffs, but those teams were anything but Mediocre.

He'd never do it, but I'd have him back as a D-Coord in a New York ****ing Minute.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Does Dick share the blame? Of course he does. But like I said, he falls low on the list in the blame for personnel decisions. Vermeil may like a player and recommend him. It is the staff's job to sift through hours of film, interviews and workout evaluations to "fact check." It is widely known that Lynn Stiles was a lazy SOB when it came to that due diligence. His idea of scouting was to call a few buddies and ask their advice, and then to rely on some film instead of evaluating players live. Vermeil's job was to recommend. The personnel staff, particularly Stiles', job was to confirm they made the right decision.

But it goes beyond that. Is Vermeil trained to grill interviewees to see if they're soft? Probably not. Is he as well-versed in how workout information can dictate potential? Probably not. Does Vermeil have time during the season to watch film of these players? Probably not. In light of the million things he has to do, is he looking at in-depth tape on all these guys? Probably not. During draft season, amid OTAs, planning for the next season, evaluating the current roster, meetings with players and coaches, etc... does Vermeil have a full work day to commit to scouting evaluations? No.

Most of those roles involve dedicated specialists and it is their 40+ hour a week job for a full year to specialize well. Scouting for draft picks is not Vermeil's full-time job. I'm sorry, but when it comes to draft picks, I blame the guys who are supposed to be specializing in drafting, not the head coach who slips into the role for a few hours out of the year. Vermeil does some scouting, but it's not his main job. In fact, it's very low on his list of a million things that he is asked to do. Lynn Stiles deserves the vast majority of the blame for poor personnel decisions. Personnel decisions was his full-time job description.

You can blame Carl for allowing Dick (and ****her andf Marty before him) to have as much influence in the draft as he did.

But the fact remains, he did have a huge say in who was picked, and no matter how you spin it, he is every bit as responsible for the sorry ass drafts as Carl.

He wanted those guys, he got them.

And if Lynn Stiles was as lazy as you say he is, how is it that the later picks were better overall, when Dick took himself out of the equation?

You are making excuses for him, and the fact is he sucked and there are no ****ing excuses.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

You can blame Carl for allowing Dick (and ****her andf Marty before him) to have as much influence in the draft as he did.

But the fact remains, he did have a huge say in who was picked, and no matter how you spin it, he is every bit as responsible for the sorry ass drafts as Carl.

He wanted those guys, he got them.

And if Lynn Stiles was as lazy as you say he is, how is it that the later picks were better overall, when Dick took himself out of the equation?

You are making excuses for him, and the fact is he sucked and there are no ****ing excuses.

Whether you hate Whitlock or not, read this article:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/printthread.php?t=105229
I wish I could also track down an ESPN Insider article years ago that ripped on Stiles big time and called him one of the worst personnel guys in the game. They said he did all of his evaluations through recommendations from college coaches within his network and that he did very limited actual scouting. Case-in-point, this is the same dumb shit who had no idea who Ben Roethlisberger was going into the draft. Can you believe that? How do you not know about a QB as highly rated as Big Ben?

You're basically suggesting that Vermeil deserves a lot of blame for drafting errors, but I will continue to ask why a GM would give a coach that kind of power and why the VP Personnel was so incompetent that he didn't know these guys were going to be failures? And then I'll ask why a Personnel guy, whose main job, by the way, is to make good draft picks and good free agency moves, wasn't fired after a long string of incompetence. It's like this. If you're building a home and your electrician is so incompetent that your carpenter ends up doing all the electrical work, whose fault is it when your electric is all screwed up? I would blame the electrician first for being a dumb shit at what he's supposed to be good at. And I'd blame the contractor who hired the guy in the first place. Why are you going to blame a guy who was doing something that's outside his job description?

Vermeil's job isn't to scout, collect data, and draft players. His job is to provide input so that the Personnel guy, who is supposed to specialize in personnel decisions, can make more informed decisions. If Vermeil had too much power, SHAME on Carl Peterson for giving it to him. In a good organization, a coach wouldn't have that much input for one, and the VP Personnel would have enough information to tell the head coach he was wrong. None of that happened. And so, a coach who was supposed to make INPUT ended up being the guy that made DECISIONS. Does Vermeil deserve some blame? Of course. But in a good organization, he would have been vetoed.

[splatbass]

Originally Posted by milkman

In sports, the measure of a team isn't how many games you win.

It's measured by championships.

By that measure, the Chiefs were the very definition of mediocre.

You need a new dictionary.

Try this one:

www.dictionary.com

me⋅di⋅o⋅cre
  /ˌmidiˈoʊkər/
–adjective
1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.
2. rather poor or inferior.


The Chiefs during the Marty era were neither of those.

[PastorMikH]

Originally Posted by milkman

So let's settle for some more mediocrity.


Yay!

I don't want to settle for it, but it is somewhere between where we are and were we want to be. So, IMO, that is at least better than what we have now.