Clausen and Tate?

[Sully]

If they are available at our picks, I want to know if you would be happy or unhappy if we ended up with both.

[Crush]

Okung's Sac has a nice ring to it. I second the notion.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

I'm confused too.

Obviously. And hate filled. What's the matter booby? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Did the Jets draft a LT to replace the other first round LT they had already drafted two years prior? NO.

So, you are happy to back the Carl Peterson/Al Grohl buddy pick of taking a guy who never played left tackle, but rather left guard and projecting that to the next level and think you are getting a future All-Pro? Okie dokie smokey! Or is it just that the guy was taken in the first round, so we never have to spend another first round pick on an offensive lineman as long as he's on the roster? Is that how you look at the roster from an evaluation perspective? That's awesome if you do. Then we don't need a defensive lineman or a linebacker by that logic, correct?

No. They didn't already have a first round pick at LT. So what they did is actually nothing like what you are advocating. They have zero in common.

By Jove! That's exactly what you are doing! You are evaluating talent on where they were picked in the draft versus what they are doing on the field. Awesome sauce!

And in fact what New York did after drafting their first round LT is then, 3 years later, trade up to #5 to pick a QBOTF.

Don't forget that they also drafted a CENTER in the first round - the same first round as when they drafted the LT. They drafted two offensive lineman in the first round - of the same draft!!!! So, is it okay for us to draft another offensive lineman in the first round because it was okay for the Jets to do that? So, theoretically, it would be okay to draft a right tackle or guard in this draft because they took two OL guys in the first round.

We now have our second chance to do EXACTLY WHAT THE JETS DID: Draft a QB at #5 after having acquired a LT in a previous draft. And you're crying like a bitch about us wanting to do that.

No, no. Crying like a bitch would be what you are doing. You are having a wittle bitty temper tantrum, calling me all sorts of names and cap yelling and such. Take a deep breath, hold it in, slowly let it out...it's going to be okay.

You don't have the first god damn clue about what teams have done, or should do.

Hmmm...I think I do. I think it's you that's having a problem with it.

And how's that dumb secondary pick they made doing? What's his name....Revis?

He's doing quite well. And why do you think that was a dumb pick? The guy is one of the best cornerbacks in the league. It really wasn't a dumb pick at all. It was like the Chiefs getting Brandon Flowers in the second round. That was also a very good pick.

Yeah, they totally blew an opportunity to draft OL there, for a silly playmaker in the secondary. What were they thinking, Sack of Testes?

I really don't think that they wanted an offensive lineman with that pick, considering that they took Ferguson and Mangold in the first round of the previous draft. That would have been silly. Especially since they signed as free agents two other offensive linemen who were also first round picks in Alan Faneca and Damien Woody. Imagine - a team with four offensive linemen who were first round picks. I thought that the general consensus was that you don't need first round picks on the offensive line to be a successful team, but yet, people are also suggesting we emulate the Jets as an organization and they DO have four first round picks on the offensive line. Weird.

Holy shit they passed on Joe Staley and Ben Grubbs for a ****ing CB.

I know it's hard to understand, but at that point, the Jets were solid on the offensive line, building through high picks in the draft and on regarded free agents. The core/trenches was built and that allowed them to then use first round selections on other positions. When they selected their potential quarterback of the future in Sanchez (even though they did use a second rounder a few scant years earlier on Kellen Clemons), he was afforded the ability to work behind an established, talented offensive line, which helped him acclimate to the demands and speed of the NFL substantially better than if he were to be placed behind a less talented offensive line. Imagine if Sanchez, as a rookie, had to start behind an offensive line that allowed, say, the second highest number of sacks in the league and was also near the top in penalties and pressures and hits? Wowszer! He'd not have been nearly as effective methinks.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good

Na i see wat ur saying and its a justified argument. though not for Tebow. I think if we have the chance we should take Clausen. If your looking to take a qb you do it right and select the one with the best chance at becoming a franchise qb. I didnt watch LeFevour but have heard good things. He hasnt done himself any favours by not throwing at the combine though.

You must be an offensive quarterback scout right? I mean, you sound like you know what your talking about and have an in-depth knowledge of what to look for in a professional level quarterback. Were you one of those guys who felt that Jamarcus Russel was the best quarterback in the draft? How about Tim Couch? He went #1. Akili Smith? What made him good enough to go that high in the draft, meaning he had all the potential to be a sure fire, slam dunk NFL QBOTF? Jeff George too! What about him? Do you see those same things in Jimmy Clausen, and that's why he's qualified to be a sure fire first round NFL QBOTF? What made these guys, and Jimmy Clausen, a sure fire NFL quarterback? Did these teams do it right?

How did you feel about Tom Brady when he came out of college? What was it about him that slid him down the board? Why did you feel he was only worth a sixth rounder? How about Joe Montana? What about his game made him a third round project versus a guaranteed first round NFL type of player? Did the teams that took a "flyer" on guys like this, instead of "doing it right" as you say, screw up?

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Okung's sac

So, you are happy to back the Carl Peterson/Al Grohl buddy pick of taking a guy who never played left tackle, but rather left guard and projecting that to the next level and think you are getting a future All-Pro? Okie dokie smokey! Or is it just that the guy was taken in the first round, so we never have to spend another first round pick on an offensive lineman as long as he's on the roster? Is that how you look at the roster from an evaluation perspective? That's awesome if you do. Then we don't need a defensive lineman or a linebacker by that logic, correct?

No one is suggesting that you never draft a LT in the first round again.

What they are suggesting is that you give that first round LT three years to develop before you make the decision to replace him.

With your line of reasoning, the Jets would have drafted a LT in the first round to repalce D'Brick after his second season, because he'd given up something like 25 sacks in his first two years, about 15 of them in his second season.

And no, the Albert situation and the Cassel situation are not the same.

Cassel has been in the league and learning the QB position for 5 years.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Admiral Crunch

Cassel can't make a consistent throw, even with fifteen seconds.

You can't make that statement. There wasn't once this past season that he had 15 seconds to throw.

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

You can't make that statement. There wasn't once this past season that he had 15 seconds to throw.

He would blow it, if he did. Cassel sucks and an entire line of Okungs is not going to change that.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

You can't make that statement. There wasn't once this past season that he had 15 seconds to throw.

But he can make that statement if he watched Cassel in New England the year before.

Cassel had a nice season there, but it was mostly on short passes and the legs of his receivers.

His accuracy beyond 15 yards was very inconsistent.

And he was also sacked 47 times, more than Tom Brady was sacked in '07 and '09 combined.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by milkman

Hey Mods, can we change the name here to Okung's sac until the draft?

Only if yours gets changed to "Acerbic Negativist Asshole."

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Only if yours gets changed to "Acerbic Negativist Asshole."

Deal!

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Admiral Crunch

He would blow it, if he did. Cassel sucks and an entire line of Okungs is not going to change that.

Actually, in looking at the Jets, that might be true. If Cassel sucks, then Sanchez sucks much worse as the stats below indicate:

Cassel:
Yards: 2,924
TDs: 16
Ints: 16
Rating: 69.9

Sanchez:
Yards: 2,444
TDs: 12
Ints: 20
Rating: 63.0

And yet, Sanchez is playing behind a substantially, almost exponentially so, better offensive line than Cassel. So, you are correct. If the quarterback sucks dog nuts, it really doesn't matter how good the offensive line is in front of them.

I concur with your logic, and the numbers prove your point.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by milkman

But he can make that statement if he watched Cassel in New England the year before.

Cassel had a nice season there, but it was mostly on short passes and the legs of his receivers.

His accuracy beyond 15 yards was very inconsistent.

And he was also sacked 47 times, more than Tom Brady was sacked in '07 and '09 combined.

So, we just need better receivers then. Makes sense as our receivers led the league in drops.

Dez Bryant with our first rounder would make sense.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Actually, in looking at the Jets, that might be true. If Cassel sucks, then Sanchez sucks much worse as the stats below indicate:

Cassel:
Yards: 2,924
TDs: 16
Ints: 16
Rating: 69.9

Sanchez:
Yards: 2,444
TDs: 12
Ints: 20
Rating: 63.0

And yet, Sanchez is playing behind a substantially, almost exponentially so, better offensive line than Cassel. So, you are correct. If the quarterback sucks dog nuts, it really doesn't matter how good the offensive line is in front of them.

I concur with your logic, and the numbers prove your point.

JFC.

You are really an obtuse ****er.

You're comparing a rookie QB with one year of college starting experience to a 5 year vet with one year of NFL starting experience and trying to make some kind of point?

The only point you are making is that you are a dumb****.

But then we already knew that, so the point is wasted.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

So, we just need better receivers then. Makes sense as our receivers led the league in drops.

Dez Bryant with our first rounder would make sense.

Since I've actually said that using that #3 pick on Bryant would be better value than almost any potential pick other than Clausen or Berry, yeah that would make sense.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by milkman

No one is suggesting that you never draft a LT in the first round again.

What they are suggesting is that you give that first round LT three years to develop before you make the decision to replace him.

With your line of reasoning, the Jets would have drafted a LT in the first round to repalce D'Brick after his second season, because he'd given up something like 25 sacks in his first two years, about 15 of them in his second season.

And no, the Albert situation and the Cassel situation are not the same.

Cassel has been in the league and learning the QB position for 5 years.

So, what you are saying is that a guy gets three years in the league, time in, not time started, and if they don't produce by that point it's okay to consider a replacement?

Okay. That's acceptable.

I'm completely off the Okung for the chiefs first round pick and switching my pick to Trent Williams for our new Right Tackle, as I see that as the next biggest position of need for this team, but I want you on the Matt Reynolds bandwagon for the 2011 Draft if Albert struggles again, okay?

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Actually, in looking at the Jets, that might be true. If Cassel sucks, then Sanchez sucks much worse as the stats below indicate:

Cassel:
Yards: 2,924
TDs: 16
Ints: 16
Rating: 69.9

Sanchez:
Yards: 2,444
TDs: 12
Ints: 20
Rating: 63.0

And yet, Sanchez is playing behind a substantially, almost exponentially so, better offensive line than Cassel. So, you are correct. If the quarterback sucks dog nuts, it really doesn't matter how good the offensive line is in front of them.

I concur with your logic, and the numbers prove your point.

Sanchez has potential. Cassel is already maxed out.