Weiss told Fox to take Clausen

[Chiefnj2]

It's water under the bridge, but interesting nonetheless:

In doing pre-draft research, not that he thought he'd have a chance to get Clausen, Fox talked to Charlie Weis, his good friend and the former Irish coach. Weis and Fox are close. Fox is sure Weis wouldn't lie to him. "Charlie said he's probably the best he's ever had,'' Fox said. "He said, 'Take this guy. Trust me.' Everyone I talked to, including a couple of people at Notre Dame, said the character issue was b.s. So we picked him.''

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[Hootie]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You can cite Harry and Athan and their info can be wrong.

I don't think the Panthers' OC is going to lie about talking to Charlie Weis, especially given that he worked with Weis in New England, you dumb ****.

So Bill Belichick has a pretty high opinion of Weis, no?

Belichick has a pretty high opinion of Pioli, no?

You really think of Weis was telling Pioli that he knew, 100%, Clausen was going to be as good as Tom Brady...that Pioli wouldn't have said, "ok, fine...we'll take him!"

You're an idiot.

A ****ING COLOSSAL IDIOT.

He was passed on...

FORTY-SEVEN TIMES

Clearly...

CLEARLY

The NFL does not project him to be a franchise QB...

What else do you need? Tim Tebow was taken ahead of him...he went 48th overall and no one even traded up to get him...they let him fall to the Panthers...

NO ONE wanted him.

Done.

Case closed.

[The Franchise]

Yeah because the Tebow selection is being highly praised by everyone around the world.

[OnTheWarpath15]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/sp...all/26nfl.html

In the N.F.L.’s version of phone-a-friend, the calls start on Monday, coach to coach, player to player, trolling for the subtleties of a game plan — a code word here, a tendency there — that only a trusted colleague would share. It is the sort of conversation Brett Favre had with the former Detroit Lions president Matt Millen a few weeks ago, one that began with hunting talk, only to turn — as Favre suspected it would — into a fishing expedition for information about his old team.
Skip to next paragraph

Favre’s chat with Millen, depending on which version one believes, might have been brief and cursory or lengthy and detailed. But more than anything, it was entirely common and wholly within the rules. The controversy in which Favre found himself last week — had he turned on the Green Bay Packers by telling Millen what he remembered about how they had attacked the Lions in previous games? — was met largely with a shrug from around the N.F.L. But it pulled back the curtain on a widely practiced slice of the football culture that does not just accept the casual trading of information, but encourages it.

“Every team that you play against, your friends who play for other teams are like: ‘Hey, tell me about this. Tell me about that. This defense, how does it run its scheme? Do they tip it?’ ” Washington Redskins running back Shaun Alexander said. “That’s what happens. It’s like advance scouting. You do the best scouting through your friends.”

It may seem incongruous that in the most paranoid of sports, where coaches cover their mouths to thwart those trying to lip-read their plays and security personnel sweep hotel rooms to check for an opponent’s forgotten playbook, sharing of trade secrets is embraced. What set Favre’s chat apart is that he did not tell his new team, the Jets, inside information about the Packers — that is practically a daily occurrence in the N.F.L. — but instead told a division rival of the Packers, giving the exchange a whiff of betrayal by the quarterback scorned. But the N.F.L. is an exclusive fraternity, and even if there were an outcry to stop sharing it would take a ban on conversations between close friends to halt the practice.

“There’s no way to regulate it,” said Charley Casserly, a former Redskins and Houston Texans general manager.

One look at the playing field in the hours before kickoff — when players and coaches from both teams mingle as they warm up — reveals the close ties that form the underpinnings of the N.F.L. Players who went to high school or college together catch up, although some do that the night before the game, when they may go out to dinner together. Coaches who may have been colleagues on the same staff early in their careers trade war stories. Even scouts, seeking confirmation of their player evaluations, check in with their peers as preparations for the draft begin.

“I probably knew coaches and scouts on every one of the 32 teams,” said Steve Mariucci, the former San Francisco and Detroit coach who is now an analyst for the NFL Network. “You can’t keep your head in the sand and assume your team knows everything there is to know. Communicating with your friends is not only accepted, it’s necessary. Asking a question — what did you think about so-and-so, what about their plan against you? — those conversations can occur. No harm, no foul. It’s commonplace.”

But what makes the sharing of information all but inevitable is how often players and coaches switch teams. Coaches frequently call former colleagues during the season, and if their old friend just happened to have faced a future foe, so much the better. And if a friend coaches a team that is about to play a division rival, he will pour out the details.

Coaches will also call their counterparts on other teams on Monday, asking for tips about their next opponents.

The coaching job interview is also a preferred time for a team to glean information about what strategies the candidate’s former team used, or even how it ran practice. It would be impossible to gauge the worthiness of the candidate for the job without hearing what he did in his earlier position. But if a team interviews six candidates for a coordinator position, it also gathers fresh intelligence on six potential foes. Occasionally, coaches say, it seems that is the only reason for the job interview — something that Al Davis, the owner of the Oakland Raiders, has been accused of.

The tactics are even less subtle when players switch teams. They turn in their playbooks before leaving their old team, but their memories are not expunged. That is why players who have recently been cut by one team will be quickly snapped up by another, particularly if those teams are facing each other soon — a tactic elevated to an art form by the Jets and the New England Patriots, who regularly bring in each other’s castoffs for debriefings. When Casserly, now an analyst for CBS, was with the Redskins, the Giants picked up a player who had been a Redskins backup, he said.

“He’s got all our signals, and he’s giving them to the Giants,” Casserly said. “Our coaches were furious. ‘How can you do this?’ He’s getting paid by them, that’s how you can do it.”

The former N.F.L. player Marcellus Wiley, now an ESPN analyst, said that he was on a team that acquired a player who had been with the Colts. The player was asked what certain words in the Colts’ signals meant.

“You try to pick up on cues, that’s about as good as it gets,” Wiley said.

Wiley touched on a fundamental truth of the sharing: it might not provide much advantage beyond psychological comfort to players and coaches looking for reassurance that their peers see things the same way they do. Earlier this season, the Jets asked linebacker Calvin Pace for tips on the Arizona Cardinals, his former team. Pace volunteered that safety Adrian Wilson blitzes a lot and plays close to the line to assist in run defense. It was nothing that could not be seen in the most rudimentary film study. And Wilson did not play.

Still, the extra reconnaissance sometimes pays off. One broadcaster said he was told that before the Baltimore Ravens played the Cincinnati Bengals in their season opener, the Ravens asked offensive lineman Willie Anderson — who signed with Baltimore days after the Bengals cut him at the end of the preseason after 12 seasons — why the Bengals had so much success blocking the Ravens’ blitz. Anderson gave the Ravens’ defense the Bengals’ offensive line calls. The Bengals had not changed them. The Ravens were so effective that Bengals receiver Chad Ocho Cinco actually praised the blitz-oriented defense after the game.

“Is Baltimore the bad guy?” the broadcaster said rhetorically. “Is Willie Anderson the bad guy?”

No more than Favre was, it seems. When asked to conjure a situation that would cross the line into the unethical, Casserly had to pause and think.

“What would be wrong would be with the Jets playing Kansas City, if the Jets’ coaches called a Kansas City coach and said, ‘Give me your game plan, give me your audibles,’ ” Casserly said. “That would not be acceptable. This is an extreme absurd example. But if Kansas City cuts a corner on Tuesday and the Jets bring him in and say, ‘Let’s talk about what they do,’ whether it’s ethical or not, what are you going to do?”

Yeah, no one trades information in the NFL.

[Hootie]

If a QB needy team thought Clausen was going to be a franchise QB...they would have traded up to take him...they would have taken him before pick 48...

If anyone thought he was a franchise QB in the making, he would have been taken...

Here:

Last year, Pat White went #44 overall...signed a 4 year, $4.5M contract.

At #48, Darcel McBath signed a 4 year, $3.85M contract.

Kerry Collins signed a 2 year, $15M contract last season...

Sage Rosenfels, the Vikings #3 QB, signed a 3 year, $9M contract last season...

The Panthers used their #48 pick on their projected backup QB and will have to pay him less than any veteran backup QB in the NFL...

So if ANY TEAM that had a need at QB thought he was a franchise QB, they would have taken him AS SOON AS HE STARTED FALLING...

Like Aaron Rodgers...because he became a low risk/high reward type player...

Which means the fact he fell to #48 is as telling as it can get...

That means every NFL team that had any type of need at QB felt like even with a low risk like $4M dollars...it wasn't worth it...because they don't think he'll develop.

IS THAT A TOUGH CONCEPT FOR YOU IDIOTS TO UNDERSTAND?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by penchief

So that proves exactly what? That Weis was not going say something negative about Clausen to the panthers after they drafted him? What would the point have been?

After?

In doing pre-draft research, not that he thought he'd have a chance to get Clausen, Fox talked to Charlie Weis

[OnTheWarpath15]

I guess Carolina doesn't expect him to become a franchise QB, seeing as how they didn't trade up and let the board come to them.

Awesome logic.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I guess Carolina doesn't expect him to become a franchise QB, seeing as how they didn't trade up and let the board come to them.

Awesome logic.

I guess you just ignored the whole post where I made several points on why people OBVIOUSLY don't think he's going to be a difference maker on the pro level...

You don't let a potential franchise QB slip to pick #48...

at pick #48...he becomes a ZERO risk draft pick for the Panthers...if he works out...AMAZING pick...if he doesn't? Oh well...doesn't hurt long term, doesn't hurt short team...doesn't hurt at all...

That doesn't paint any sort of a picture to you?

As soon as the 2nd round hit...and he slipped past the halfway point...that should have painted a pretty clear picture for all Clausen fans...

[Hootie]

ARE YOU GOING TO IGNORE THAT LOGIC?

[penchief]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

After?

Refer to the post I responded to with that post. Ask Hamas where he got his information.

If you want a response to the pre-draft claim that was posted see the post that Hamas responded to when he implied that Weis signed off on the Clausen pick right after they drafted him.

I've covered both bases. Either way I think it's a just a bunch of bullshit being dredged up by the Jimmy Clausen nuthuggers in order to beat a dead horse.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

I guess you just ignored the whole post where I made several points on why people OBVIOUSLY don't think he's going to be a difference maker on the pro level...

You don't let a potential franchise QB slip to pick #48...

at pick #48...he becomes a ZERO risk draft pick for the Panthers...if he works out...AMAZING pick...if he doesn't? Oh well...doesn't hurt long term, doesn't hurt short team...doesn't hurt at all...

That doesn't paint any sort of a picture to you?

As soon as the 2nd round hit...and he slipped past the halfway point...that should have painted a pretty clear picture for all Clausen fans...

You keep acting as if 31 teams passed on him.

How many teams needed a QB? Less than 6?

Hell, we thought WE needed a QB. But Pioli passed, even though Weis said Clausen was the best he ever had.

You've got it stuck in your head that he fell because of a lack of talent.

Why did Aaron Rodgers fall?

It wasn't for a lack of talent. Not every team either:

a) Needs a QB

b) Is willing to part with a high draft pick when they have greater needs.

If Scott Pioli can claim that we have no need, and he believes in Cassel, why is it an indictment on Clausen that teams like Buffalo and Cleveland did the same?

[Reerun_KC]

This board could use some of these...




The menstral group is bleeding pretty bad today.... WOW, I have never seen grown men pout until today...

[Hootie]

Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn fell into the early 20s...

Clausen fell to the middle of the 2nd round...

BIG DIFFERENCE...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by penchief

So that proves exactly what? That Weis was not going say something negative about Clausen to the panthers after they drafted him? What would the point have been?

To help out a fellow colleague. Again, this happens all the time. One of the reasons why Marques Colston slid on draft day was because his coaches ripped him to scouts.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by penchief

Refer to the post I responded to with that post. Ask Hamas where he got his information.

If you want a response to the pre-draft claim that was posted see the post that Hamas responded to when he implied that Weis signed off on the Clausen pick right after they drafted him.

I've covered both bases. Either way I think it's a just a bunch of bullshit being dredged up by the Jimmy Clausen nuthuggers in order to beat a dead horse.

So Mortenson and King are both liars?

Mortenson REPORTED that Weis signed off PRE DRAFT on Clausen AFTER the selection.

You think Mort is going to risk getting shut out by teams by reporting information given to him in confidence before the draft?

Of course it's all bullshit, that's why it's being reported by two seperate reporters at two different media outlets.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

To help out a fellow colleague. Again, this happens all the time. One of the reasons why Marques Colston slid on draft day was because his coaches ripped him to scouts.

So Weis...his head coach...praised him to scouts on all accounts yet he still fell to the middle of the 2nd round...

what does that tell you?