NFL Draft Buyer Beware ... Cornerbacks - Page 4

Mr. Laz · 04-27-2015, 07:29 PM

CFF Overview: CB – Buyer Beware
Gordon McGuinness | April 17, 2015
CFF-overview-CB-beware

As we continue to look through the mass of CFF data we have collected, we’re turning our attention to cornerbacks. After bringing you the top of the crop and sleepers earlier in the week we now turn our attention to the Buyer Beware section.

The top of this cornerback class is filled with question marks and you can still find players 10-15 spots deep that aren’t too far away from the guys at the top. That means the guys at the top come with the added question mark of how much of a gamble you are taking by spending a high draft pick on them. So here are five players who we think teams should be wary of in the NFL draft.

Trae Waynes, Michigan St.

Waynes is regarded by many as the top cornerback in this class and at times it’s easy to see why. He has speed to burn and shows confidence, never looking worried about being beaten deep. He also holds the point well against a block and performs well against the run. Despite all that, though, there are some question marks that make him a risk to be selected as high as many are predicting.

His awareness at times is questionable, and there are times when he lost the ball in the air by focusing too much on the wide receiver in front of him. Those lapses leave him flapping after noticing the ball in the air, leading to contact which could lead to more flags in the NFL. His tackling can also be a bit suspect as he has a tendency to throw himself at tackles in space, a little bit like Asante Samuel, rather than wrapping up. That’s something that will cost him a few big plays when he misses, and something he must clean up in the NFL.

Signature stat: Missed a tackle once every 8.3 attempts.

Kevin Johnson, Wake Forest

CFF-inset-kevin-johnsonJohnson is also regarded as a first-round draft pick by many, but in a similar way to Justin Hardy at wide receiver he’s someone that neither myself nor Sam see the hype with. He does have great balance which stops him from being beaten immediately off the line where so much damage can be done, but there are too many question marks in the rest of his game.

He doesn’t possess great top-level speed on the field. This will lead to him losing plenty of one-on-one battles with NFL receivers and at times it looked like he was deliberately playing off to protect his speed. The need to jump up from there and attack under routes led to him being beaten on double moves on more than one occasion. Like Waynes, he too can be a bit of a sloppy tackler at times, tilting his head down and trying to tackle blind far too often which led to 10 misses last season.

Signature Stat: Missed a tackle once every 5.1 attempted, tied for the ninth-worst of all draft-eligible cornerbacks in this class.

P.J. Williams, Florida St.

CFF-inset-pj-williamsWilliams is arguably the most frustrating cornerback in this draft class and is the perfect example of how subset scouting can lead to a guy being overhyped. In his best games, he looked very good when getting his hands on a wide receiver early and attacked the run and screen passes aggressively, launching himself through blockers.

The problem with Williams is inconsistency. As good as he looked against Louisville and DeVante Parker, he played very poorly against Syracuse, North Carolina State, and Georgia Tech. Very good when he gets his hands on a receiver, but as soon as he loses direct contact he struggles, something that will be a big issue in the NFL. Like the previous two we mentioned, he missed too many tackles in 2014. It’s not something he doesn’t look capable of, but poor technique such as arm tackles and trying to swat at the ball when he’s in a bad position give him big problems.

Signature Stat: Williams allowed a quarterback rating of 100.0 on all passes thrown into his coverage.

Eric Rowe, Utah

CFF-inset-roweRowe is a cornerback who divides opinion, with some seeing him as a better prospect at safety than cornerback, while others think he’s a better fit at the position he played during his final season in college. One thing you can say for Rowe is he’s very strong. In the Washington State game he was too physical for the receivers he went up against and made life miserable for them. He’s physical enough that he makes contested catches tough on wide receivers, and works best in press-man when he’s able to get his hands on the wide receiver.

The problem with Rowe is he looks very uncomfortable in off-coverage at times, looking lost and struggling to get a feel for everything around him. He also struggles with recovery speed so when he loses at the line of scrimmage he’s in trouble. Any success he has in the NFL will come from being able to get a good jam on wide receivers at the line of scrimmage unless he can improve his work in off-coverage.

Signature Stat: Was targeted once every 6.6 snaps in coverage.

College Football Focus Home Page

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-buyer-beware/

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-28-2015, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

I worry about the TY Hilton's of the world.

They just start running crossing routes/stop and go's and we just don't have the speed to keep up with them.

That's only because the Chiefs linebackers can't cover. You put a guy like Eric Kendricks in there and it all stops.

Look at Denver in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks. Their ILBers can cover and disrupt crossing and wheel routes, which resulted in shutting down Denver's offense.

It's all about the ILBers, IMO.

DJ's left nut · 04-28-2015, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

I worry about the TY Hilton's of the world.

They just start running crossing routes/stop and go's and we just don't have the speed to keep up with them.

I guess the answer is Ron Parker.

Sure, we're a little slower at CB than most but Parker's much faster than what most teams have at S. Most teams only have one true burner on the field so Parker could shade towards a guy like Hilton and if he's running a stop and go, Parker needs to be there over the top.

As for the crossing routes, well those are a pain in the ass for anyone. Ultimately I think your LBs are going to have a fair amount of responsibility to contain the short crosses and long-crossing routes should be dealt with by the pass-rush; they just take awhile to develop.

And again - timing. The Chiefs utilize the press-man with the idea that they don't really have to run with these guys on the crossing routes, they just have to get their hands on them and knock them off their routes.

O.city · 04-28-2015, 10:15 AM

DJ, I think the problem with drafting corners isn't so much due to measurable s but more so with technique.

Stopping a cross or post or shutting down a good route runner is more so about technique paired with said measurables. These guys have relied on athleticism in college and there generally aren't great route runners in college or dumbed down route trees make it easier.

So while I do love measurables, I'd me Leary to draft based on them without any or much technique and/or instincts.

Apparently, based on last seasons success, we have great secondary coaching so maybe take the high athlete and train him. I dunno

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And again - timing. The Chiefs utilize the press-man with the idea that they don't really have to run with these guys on the crossing routes, they just have to get their hands on them and knock them off their routes.

And rarely is that very long due to Hali/Poe/Houston. Our pass rush murders most O lines.

Only rare QB's like Manning or a sloppy $3itty field @ Oakland really had any answer for it...

O.city · 04-28-2015, 10:16 AM

Option routes are so damn hard to cover. A lot of that has to be recognition due to tendencies.

It's why I'm coming around to the Dorset at 18 hype

Mr. Laz · 04-28-2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

And rarely is that very long due to Hali/Poe/Houston. Our pass rush murders most O lines.

Only rare QB's like Manning or a sloppy $3itty field @ Oakland really had any answer for it...

but that's just it, we need to figure out how to beat those QB's if we are going to win a playoff game

You get a QB that throws quick or can move around a little be to avoid our rush for a few seconds and we are shredded if our corners can't keep up on crossing routes.

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

but that's just it, we need to figure out how to beat those QB's if we are going to win a playoff game

You get a QB that throws quick or can move around a little be to avoid our rush for a few seconds and we are shredded if our corners can't keep up on crossing routes.

Manning was the only QB that had any answer for our rush.

Brady didn't. Wilson didn't. Kap didn't. The second Raider game showed just how much the field condition slowed our rush and not the talent/scheme.

Manning is really the only guy who's proven he can consistently best this pass rush. I'd argue Rodgers can as well, but that's it.

Mr. Laz · 04-28-2015, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

Manning was the only QB that had any answer for our rush.

Brady didn't. Wilson didn't. Kap didn't. The second Raider game showed just how much the field condition slowed our rush and not the talent/scheme.

Manning is really the only guy who's proven he can consistently best this pass rush. I'd argue Rodgers can as well, but that's it.

manning = 2 losses this year and a kick from the playoffs if we reach them

seems like Colts figured it out too in the 2nd half

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

manning = 2 losses this year and a kick from the playoffs if we reach them

seems like Colts figured it out too in the 2nd half

The first game we held them to 7 pts in the 2nd half.
The second game we held them to 9 pts in the 2nd half.

Our offense wasted opportunities in both games and didn't score. We also started slowly and allowed them to score in the first half.

We need to start fast. I don't know how many games last year we just didn't do much of anything for the first half on offense. Our offense didn't move the chains and didn't sustain drives. We had ZERO big play ability at the WR position and couldn't hang in a shoot out...

Chiefnj2 · 04-28-2015, 10:34 AM

I'm afraid if KC stays put in 2nd round there will be a run on ILBs and they will miss out on a top guy.

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I'm afraid if KC stays put in 2nd round there will be a run on ILBs and they will miss out on a top guy.

If you're talking about a replacement for DJ in this draft I don't see it. There are guys that can run and cover but they're undersized or unimpressive in other areas.

If you're just talking about a run stuffing Belcher-backer there are later round options...

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-28-2015, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I'm afraid if KC stays put in 2nd round there will be a run on ILBs and they will miss out on a top guy.

There are only two ILBer's worthy of top 49 picks for the Chiefs system, IMO: Kendricks and Anthony. It's likely that a plug & play receiver will be available at #49, so an ILBer at #18 wouldn't be shocking in the least.

Reid drafted his brother, who's been an outstanding pro, and Kendricks has all of the measurable and qualities to be a very good ILB in the NFL.

**The Franchise** · 04-28-2015, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

If you're talking about a replacement for DJ in this draft I don't see it. There are guys that can run and cover but they're undersized or unimpressive in other areas.

If you're just talking about a run stuffing Belcher-backer there are later round options...

Trade for Mychal Kendricks. Problem solved.

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-28-2015, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

If you're talking about a replacement for DJ in this draft I don't see it. There are guys that can run and cover but they're undersized or unimpressive in other areas.

If you're just talking about a run stuffing Belcher-backer there are later round options...

I think Kendrick and Anthony will both be better, immediately, than any version of DJ from 2005-2009.

The Chiefs don't need a "Thumper". They need two athletic, smart ILBer's like the Seahawks have in Smith and Wagner.

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The Chiefs don't need a "Thumper". They need two athletic, smart ILBer's like the Seahawks have in Smith and Wagner.

For our 3-4 we definitely do need a thumper...

04-27-2015, 07:29 PM
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	Buyer Beware ... Cornerbacks CFF Overview: CB – Buyer Beware Gordon McGuinness \| April 17, 2015 CFF-overview-CB-beware As we continue to look through the mass of CFF data we have collected, we’re turning our attention to cornerbacks. After bringing you the top of the crop and sleepers earlier in the week we now turn our attention to the Buyer Beware section. The top of this cornerback class is filled with question marks and you can still find players 10-15 spots deep that aren’t too far away from the guys at the top. That means the guys at the top come with the added question mark of how much of a gamble you are taking by spending a high draft pick on them. So here are five players who we think teams should be wary of in the NFL draft. Trae Waynes, Michigan St. Waynes is regarded by many as the top cornerback in this class and at times it’s easy to see why. He has speed to burn and shows confidence, never looking worried about being beaten deep. He also holds the point well against a block and performs well against the run. Despite all that, though, there are some question marks that make him a risk to be selected as high as many are predicting. His awareness at times is questionable, and there are times when he lost the ball in the air by focusing too much on the wide receiver in front of him. Those lapses leave him flapping after noticing the ball in the air, leading to contact which could lead to more flags in the NFL. His tackling can also be a bit suspect as he has a tendency to throw himself at tackles in space, a little bit like Asante Samuel, rather than wrapping up. That’s something that will cost him a few big plays when he misses, and something he must clean up in the NFL. Signature stat: Missed a tackle once every 8.3 attempts. Kevin Johnson, Wake Forest CFF-inset-kevin-johnsonJohnson is also regarded as a first-round draft pick by many, but in a similar way to Justin Hardy at wide receiver he’s someone that neither myself nor Sam see the hype with. He does have great balance which stops him from being beaten immediately off the line where so much damage can be done, but there are too many question marks in the rest of his game. He doesn’t possess great top-level speed on the field. This will lead to him losing plenty of one-on-one battles with NFL receivers and at times it looked like he was deliberately playing off to protect his speed. The need to jump up from there and attack under routes led to him being beaten on double moves on more than one occasion. Like Waynes, he too can be a bit of a sloppy tackler at times, tilting his head down and trying to tackle blind far too often which led to 10 misses last season. Signature Stat: Missed a tackle once every 5.1 attempted, tied for the ninth-worst of all draft-eligible cornerbacks in this class. P.J. Williams, Florida St. CFF-inset-pj-williamsWilliams is arguably the most frustrating cornerback in this draft class and is the perfect example of how subset scouting can lead to a guy being overhyped. In his best games, he looked very good when getting his hands on a wide receiver early and attacked the run and screen passes aggressively, launching himself through blockers. The problem with Williams is inconsistency. As good as he looked against Louisville and DeVante Parker, he played very poorly against Syracuse, North Carolina State, and Georgia Tech. Very good when he gets his hands on a receiver, but as soon as he loses direct contact he struggles, something that will be a big issue in the NFL. Like the previous two we mentioned, he missed too many tackles in 2014. It’s not something he doesn’t look capable of, but poor technique such as arm tackles and trying to swat at the ball when he’s in a bad position give him big problems. Signature Stat: Williams allowed a quarterback rating of 100.0 on all passes thrown into his coverage. Eric Rowe, Utah CFF-inset-roweRowe is a cornerback who divides opinion, with some seeing him as a better prospect at safety than cornerback, while others think he’s a better fit at the position he played during his final season in college. One thing you can say for Rowe is he’s very strong. In the Washington State game he was too physical for the receivers he went up against and made life miserable for them. He’s physical enough that he makes contested catches tough on wide receivers, and works best in press-man when he’s able to get his hands on the wide receiver. The problem with Rowe is he looks very uncomfortable in off-coverage at times, looking lost and struggling to get a feel for everything around him. He also struggles with recovery speed so when he loses at the line of scrimmage he’s in trouble. Any success he has in the NFL will come from being able to get a good jam on wide receivers at the line of scrimmage unless he can improve his work in off-coverage. Signature Stat: Was targeted once every 6.6 snaps in coverage. College Football Focus Home Page https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-buyer-beware/
Posts: 95,626

04-28-2015, 10:15 AM	#48
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-785936	DJ, I think the problem with drafting corners isn't so much due to measurable s but more so with technique. Stopping a cross or post or shutting down a good route runner is more so about technique paired with said measurables. These guys have relied on athleticism in college and there generally aren't great route runners in college or dumbed down route trees make it easier. So while I do love measurables, I'd me Leary to draft based on them without any or much technique and/or instincts. Apparently, based on last seasons success, we have great secondary coaching so maybe take the high athlete and train him. I dunno
Posts: 84,266

04-28-2015, 10:16 AM	#50
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-785936	Option routes are so damn hard to cover. A lot of that has to be recognition due to tendencies. It's why I'm coming around to the Dorset at 18 hype
Posts: 84,266

04-28-2015, 10:34 AM	#55
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	I'm afraid if KC stays put in 2nd round there will be a run on ILBs and they will miss out on a top guy. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541