Offense v. Defense using comparable stats

[petegz28]

We keep hearing from some on here how the Chiefs are the 28th ranked offense. In the same breath the people defend the defense by saying "they only gave up X points".

Okay so fair enough, but not really. Let's look at like for like.

Scoring offense (because points are what matters)
Chiefs are 19th. Not 28th

Scoring defense (because points are what matters)
Chiefs are 5th - very good

now compare the same stat that people like to tout as 28th ranked offense..yards per game

Yards Per Game Offense:
Chiefs are 24th

Yards Per Game Defense:
Chiefs are 25th

So pick your poison but keep it consistent on both sides of the ball

[O.city]

My response after sitting and watching the game at arrowhead, it didn't seem like the offense was who I'd be upset with.

The 2 redzone trips that ended in a pick and a field goal sucked dick, but man, it was hard t watch the defense. They couldn't get off the field. 3rd downs, etc.

I will say it's amazing how much "better" the offense looked when we consistently got the ball to Kelce and hill and ware.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

They were on the right track before the concussion and actually moved the ball quite well yesterday. Suspect play calling multiple times in the game. Smith was much improved from the Carolina game, although had his first red zone INT in almost thirty games.

Maclin is the difference maker is what it comes down to. Can't recall any QB in the league that didn't see a drop in efficiency when they lost their #1 receiver, thus Smith deserves some slack for that.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Dartgod

The offense actually played well enough to win...until Alex threw that awful ****ing interception.

The Good

• Alex averaged more yards per attempt than Winston (8.4 to 8.2)
• The entire offense averaged more yards per play than TB (6.6 to 6.0)
• The defense held TB to 1/5 TDs in the Red Zone

The Bad

• We were 4/8 on 3rd down conversions
• We lost TOP ~35 to ~25
• The defense gave up 442 total yards
• Not forcing a punt until early in the 4th quarter

The Ugly

• TB ran 74 offensive plays to our 52
• TB converted 11/16 3rd downs
• That dumb as shit sweep with Kelce from the TB 4
• Alex's drive killing interception

50% on third downs would lead the league pretty much every single season. It's way above average. The 3rd down conversion rate should be in the good category. Moreover, the fact that they only had 8 3rd downs in a game would be seen as a good thing but/for the fact that they never had the ball in their hands.

And as for the Bucs converstion rate - Really, 62% and they win that game, IMO. One stop at the end and I think they'd have won it - the third down right before the two minute warning; the only time the Bucs tried to pass and they had it pretty easily. The Chiefs just couldn't stop anyone yesterday. Steven Nelson was victimized outside and Ackers was pretty much routinely a half-step behind the play. He was never bad enough to get torched but never really good enough to break up the pass.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

They averaged 2.4 points per drive. Give them the NFL average of 11 drives in a game and they end up right at 27 points; pretty much balls on with what the Bucs have given up this season.

The offense didn't play poorly, it just never got a chance to play because the defense shit the bed. Their offense was almost exactly as successful as the average offense to face the Bucs this year on a per drive, per play basis. The problem is that our D couldn't get off the field and give the offense the drives it needed to operate.

Careful, reasonable thinking is unwelcome on CP

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

50% on third downs would lead the league pretty much every single season. It's way above average. The 3rd down conversion rate should be in the good category. Moreover, the fact that they only had 8 3rd downs in a game would be seen as a good thing but/for the fact that they never had the ball in their hands.

And as for the Bucs converstion rate - Really, 62% and they win that game, IMO. One stop at the end and I think they'd have won it - the third down right before the two minute warning; the only time the Bucs tried to pass and they had it pretty easily. The Chiefs just couldn't stop anyone yesterday. Steven Nelson was victimized outside and Ackers was pretty much routinely a half-step behind the play. He was never bad enough to get torched but never really good enough to break up the pass.

They kept playong soft and keeping everything in front but it allowed long methodical drives.

Weird and maybe I'm way off, but it looked like a game they knew they were beat up and playong new faces and just tried to play bend don't break and hope the Bucs would lose.

Winston made some nice throws but he missed some open throws as well. It was weird.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The offense didn't play poorly,.

Two trips inside the 6 and they came out with three points and about -50 in yardage. That's not "poorly"?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Iconic

Yes the defense was bad yesterday no ones denying that. But the offense has BEEN bad for a really really long time. You can't expect your defense to play like the 85 Bears week in and week out. It's not manageable. They will suck sometimes. And when that happens, the offense needs to pick up the slack like the Defense did in the Carolina game.

Much of everyone's resentment right now stems from watching the offense consistently under preform.

I conceded that.

But if you're going to discuss this game, you have to be fair about it.

The Chiefs defense has been better than the offense all year. Yesterday it wasn't. I'd listen to an argument that it wasn't worse, but there's no way you can argue it was better.

At most, they were equally shitty. What I saw was 60/40 defense responsibility to offense, but that's not saying the offense was good. Had either the offense or defense had a truly good game, the Chiefs still win. Instead they both left room for improvement and that's how you lose at home to a pretty mediocre team.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Two trips inside the 6 and they came out with three points and about -50 in yardage. That's not "poorly"?

I reiterate, 2.4 points per drive yields you about 27 points in an average NFL game. That's not a crazy Chip Kelly pace; it's 11 possessions (and right now teams are actually around 24 total possessions per game so I'm being conservative).

Cherry pick all you want, but when you're given only 7 attempts to really move the ball, 17 points isn't bad. It isn't good, but there's a wide middle there.

The defense, OTOH, was bad. The offense was merely pedestrian.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I reiterate, 2.4 points per drive yields you about 27 points in an average NFL game. That's not a crazy Chip Kelly pace; it's 11 possessions (and right now teams are actually around 24 total possessions per game so I'm being conservative).

Cherry pick all you want, but when you're given only 7 attempts to really move the ball, 17 points isn't bad. It isn't good, but there's a wide middle there.

The defense, OTOH, was bad. The offense was merely pedestrian.

And I'm not making excuses.....but no Peters for the entire game and no Ford for half the game is what caused that.

And before someone jumps in with "NO MACLIN!".....we had him before and our offense was still shit.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

They kept playong soft and keeping everything in front but it allowed long methodical drives.

Weird and maybe I'm way off, but it looked like a game they knew they were beat up and playong new faces and just tried to play bend don't break and hope the Bucs would lose.

Winston made some nice throws but he missed some open throws as well. It was weird.

They were trying to steal one.

Once Ford went down, the team clearly decided that they'd try to get lucky again. They weren't doing anything to push the issue (hell, the offense at least took a few shots downfield; the D really didn't do anything but rush 4 and drop guys into coverage).

Hali's done. I hope he retires; we just saw what he's capable of contributing when he's the most critical player on the field and it's precisely dick. And it's time to move on from Zombo as well - he was completely useless out there. Now I don't expect any team to be able to continue to take bullets and not eventually feel it, but we've found out that the OLBs don't have nearly the depth we'd hoped. Hali and Zombo barely resemble NFL players at this point and I'm not sure how much confidence we should have in Dadi if he can't get snaps ahead of Zombo.

But I digress, you're right - they were playing soft and hoping. And the shit of it is that it would've worked if Acker could've made one goddamn play at the 2 minute warning. You know Evans isn't looking to beat you deep there; just sit on that route and make one single ****ing play on this entire afternoon to knock that ball away and get us the ball back with 1:55 and a timeout. I think they win it if they do.

But again, the D just couldn't get off the field.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

And I'm not making excuses.....but no Peters for the entire game and no Ford for half the game is what caused that.

And before someone jumps in with "NO MACLIN!".....we had him before and our offense was still shit.

Of course that's the reason the D was bad - but the D was still bad.

You can say you aren't making excuses but if someone points out the defense played poorly and you say "but Ford and Peters weren't there" well that's exactly what you're doing.

Yes, injuries probably caused it. Yes, the gameplan changed because of the personnel and it kept them from being able to play the kind of D they wanted. But in the end, the D was ****ing BAD yesterday and the why of it is only relevant going forward. In explaining yesterdays outcome, why they were bad doesn't matter; the scoreboard went in TBs favor because they were bad - full stop.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

And I'm not making excuses.....but no Peters for the entire game and no Ford for half the game is what caused that.

And let's not forget about Howard and Bailey. RNR flashed yesterday, as did Jones and Poe but Reyes was just awful.

But hey, Direckshun thinks the Chiefs should trade Bailey.



I'd also point out that Ramik Wilson regressed this week and as much it pains me say, DJ's lost at least a step this season, if not two. He missed tackles that in years past, would have been short gains.

At the end of the day however, holding any NFL team to less than 20 points should result in win, especially at home.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

They were trying to steal one.

Once Ford went down, the team clearly decided that they'd try to get lucky again. They weren't doing anything to push the issue (hell, the offense at least took a few shots downfield; the D really didn't do anything but rush 4 and drop guys into coverage).

Hali's done. I hope he retires; we just saw what he's capable of contributing when he's the most critical player on the field and it's precisely dick. And it's time to move on from Zombo as well - he was completely useless out there. Now I don't expect any team to be able to continue to take bullets and not eventually feel it, but we've found out that the OLBs don't have nearly the depth we'd hoped. Hali and Zombo barely resemble NFL players at this point and I'm not sure how much confidence we should have in Dadi if he can't get snaps ahead of Zombo.

But I digress, you're right - they were playing soft and hoping. And the shit of it is that it would've worked if Acker could've made one goddamn play at the 2 minute warning. You know Evans isn't looking to beat you deep there; just sit on that route and make one single ****ing play on this entire afternoon to knock that ball away and get us the ball back with 1:55 and a timeout. I think they win it if they do.

But again, the D just couldn't get off the field.

Yeah I told my wife when ford went down that they'd ran out of horses.

I think you can still get something from tamba, but he can't be the guy anymore.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

They averaged 2.4 points per drive. Give them the NFL average of 11 drives in a game and they end up right at 27 points; pretty much balls on with what the Bucs have given up this season.

The offense didn't play poorly, it just never got a chance to play because the defense shit the bed. Their offense was almost exactly as successful as the average offense to face the Bucs this year on a per drive, per play basis. The problem is that our D couldn't get off the field and give the offense the drives it needed to operate.

Meh. The offense didn't do much to help the TOP battle themselves. Aside from that first drive, which was an absolutely beauty up until the 5 yard line, they didn't have a single drive that lasted longer than 4 minutes.

.. And I just can't help but go back to the end zone INT. That was the absolute back breaker. One play prior and we were looking GOOD for the game. I was legitimately confident that we'd win.

Man, that play just really sucked.

[O.city]

Dj missed an open field tackle right in front of us that would have ended a drive. I'm thinking his hamstring is still bothering him.

However, I didn't really feel the run d was bad.