On ESPN now is a draft special..

[Mecca]

Schlereth is going to explain why Curry isn't worth a top 10 pick is one of the teasers..

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by DrRyan

Very nice try with the spin there. Shall we bring up the history of underclassmen with one year of college starting experience. Like I said in the first post in this thread, if we cannot trade down and the Chiefs have a QB as the BPA then, you take him. If not, you don't.

Please spare me the Sanchez is not a project rhetoric though. He is a project that has started 16 games in college.

Originally Posted by RustShack

Sure bring it in, but make sure you leave out the spread QB's. Oh wait, there isn't a list anymore after that is there?

JaMarcus Russell is probably the most recent underclassmen QB to struggle. He got a lot of hype too after a big bowl game performance. Do you remember? LSU beat Notre Dame and then Quinn dropped like a rock in the draft. Sanchez is getting a lot of hype right after a big bowl game too. What if Sanchez has a bad game in the bowl game? Are we even talking about him now? To me, his resume is too short.

But I would love for someone to trade up for him.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

exactly




what, in here?
guess I am too then. I'd say it would have to depend on the skill set of the player/prospect we are talking about.

But, then again, there has been talk about hali moving to a 3-4 OLB, but there were several arguements against it, based on how hard it would be to teach him coverage.

This place cracks me up sometimes....

Yep. Hali is going to struggle covering people because it is a totally different skill set then playing D-Line and rushing the QB every other play.

[crazycoffey]

Originally Posted by milkman

I don't know about that whole "Hali can't learn to cover" argument, though I would think that he lacks the sthleticism needed to cover.

However, the biggest argument against movin Hali to OLB in a 3-4 is that he doesn't have the speed and athleticism to rush the passer as a stand up LB.

The only thing that Hali brings is a quick initial burst, which is effective agaisnt the lesser (generally) athletic RTs (as opposed to LTs).

Beyond that, he's virtually useless.

IIRC - hali had greater success when rushing from a standing postion.
not trying to turn this into another hali discussion......

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

"They" meaning whom? The talking heads? In an interview this week, Mayock said that the value in this draft is at the bottom of the first round because there isn't any elite talent in this draft.

That's something I've been saying since January.

1. "This is by far the worst year for the top 10 that I've seen. Down around 18, 20, you'll get every bit the player you'll get in the top 10 for a third of the price.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1

hey, we agree on something! that's awesome. I've been saying that this is a weak draft at the top too. I think that in most drafts that Curry is a #10 pick, but since this draft is weak at the top, he moves up.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

When you want him to do something he's really never done in his career, you might as well be asking him to change positions.

This is the very definition of project.

He'll do more then one thing and those things he'll do very well. The thing about being able to rush the passer is that I'm starting believe he'll be able to do it. I've seen enough video of him in the backfield making tackles for loss and pressuring the QB that I think his skills will transfer to pass rushing. He's caused the QB to throw INTs because of his pressure and that's not just once. He's also pressured the QB out of the pocket into the arms of another defender who gets the glory of a sack that was really due to Currys pressure. IMO the 9 sack stat is misleading to Curry's ability. I don't think I'm the only person who thinks these things either. So to me Curry as an over all prospect isn't a project. And that combined with the other players available at the top of this draft him a top 5 pick.

PhilFree

[RustShack]

Oh man I can't believe how stupid people are sometimes. Every DE we've talked about drafting and using as an OLB is fast enough and athletic enough to cover, you can teach players like that to cover easily... especially since most of them have played in coverage during a zone blitz. So you bring up Hali who isn't fast enough or athletic enough and don't get why we can't use him?



You can teach someone athletic enough to cover a lot more easily than you can teach them to pass rush. Maybe in HS when they can plow throw anyone it might be easier to pass rush, but when you have to teach them the technique and moves its a lot harder.

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Yep. Hali is going to struggle covering people because it is a totally different skill set then playing D-Line and rushing the QB every other play.

each team is different. Look at Miami. They have a huge OLB in Roth, 6'4" 275. They don't ask him to play man coverage down the field. They do ask him to play zone in the flat and the hook to curl area and make open field tackles.

I think Hali can play the same role as Roth.

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by philfree

He'll do more then one thing and those things he'll do very well. The thing about being able to rush the passer is that I'm starting believe he'll be able to do it. I've seen enough video of him in the backfield making tackles for loss and pressuring the QB that I think his skills will transfer to pass rushing. He's caused the QB to throw INTs because of his pressure and that's not just once. He's also pressured the QB out of the pocket into the arms of another defender who gets the glory of a sack that was really due to Currys pressure. IMO the 9 sack stat is misleading to Curry's ability. I don't think I'm the only person who thinks these things either. So to me Curry as an over all prospect isn't a project. And that combined with the other players available at the top of this draft him a top 5 pick.

PhilFree

I agree. In the plays where I have seen Curry rush the QB, he has been good at it. He just hasn't had the opportunity very often.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

I agree. In the plays where I have seen Curry rush the QB, he has been good at it. He just hasn't had the opportunity very often.

He had clear paths to the QB in nearly every pass rush highlight.

There is one highlight where the QB feels the "pressure" and makes a bad throw, but the RB actually knocked Curry on his ass.

Getting to the passer isn't all about just running fast to the QB.
If he's expected to be a pass rusher, he's going to have to learn to do more than simply run through a hole in the line.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by milkman

He had clear paths to the QB in nearly every pass rush highlight.

There is one highlight where the QB feels the "pressure" and makes a bad throw, but the RB actually knocked Curry on his ass.

Getting to the passer isn't all about just running fast to the QB.
If he's expected to be a pass rusher, he's going to have to learn to do more than simply run through a hole in the line.

Curry takes on and sheds blocks so well I think he'll be able to beat the blocks. Curry is more then just a speed backer and more then one draft guru says that he can turn the corner. I watched enough of him that I think he'll bea ble to do it. Have you seen anything that says he won't be able to do it?


PhilFree

[RustShack]

Curry goes through blockers, something that wont happen in the NFL.

[kcbubb]

I think it is more about physicality and athletic ability than just moves. I really think you can teach moves like rip, swim, spin or bull rush. It is hard to teach a player to be physical and it is impossible to teach a player to be athletic.

[crazycoffey]

Originally Posted by RustShack

Oh man I can't believe how stupid people are sometimes. Every DE we've talked about drafting and using as an OLB is fast enough and athletic enough to cover, you can teach players like that to cover easily... especially since most of them have played in coverage during a zone blitz. So you bring up Hali who isn't fast enough or athletic enough and don't get why we can't use him?



You can teach someone athletic enough to cover a lot more easily than you can teach them to pass rush. Maybe in HS when they can plow throw anyone it might be easier to pass rush, but when you have to teach them the technique and moves its a lot harder.

really, it's easy to teach reading plays, screens, routes? watching the ball and staying with the TE while you do it? It's funny. I'm only arguing the points here, not saying Hali will/should be moved, but he was a smaller DE, that specialized more in the rush, that fits the majority of the DE-to LB talk. But because he was asked to do it from the stance only and on the stronger side, he suddenly doesn't have that potential he had coming out of college anymore? It makes me "stupid" to speculate this, how?

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by RustShack

Curry goes through blockers, something that wont happen in the NFL.

Very true.

I honestly have no idea what the Chiefs are going to do or who they should pick. It will be exciting to find out what happens.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by RustShack

Curry goes through blockers, something that wont happen in the NFL.

He takes on blocks and sheds them. That's what's LBs are supposed to do isn't it? The guys a beast he'll be able to shed blocks in the NFL just fine." He had a clear path to the QB" , and he "runs through blockers" so he's fast enough to blow by blockers and bad enough to run through blockers but he won't we able to rush the passer? What......ever.




PhilFree