Cassel VS Orton

[RustShack]

Orton in his two years in our offense-

62.1% 3,802 yards 21 TD 12 INT 86.8 Rating 7.0 YPA
58.8% 3,653 yards 20 TD 9 INT 87.5 Rating 7.3 YPA

Cassel those same last two years in the same system with better cast-

55.0% 2,924 yards 16 TD 16 INT 69.9 Rating 5.93 YPA
58.2% 3,116 yards 27 TD 7 INT 93.0 Rating 6.92 YPA

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by burt

way wrong.

Yeah, because they proved they belonged in the playoffs last year.

The only reason they would be in the playoffs is due to the division if they made it this year.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Bacillus Anthracis

Denver's defense wasn't playing at the same level before Tebow Bieber took over. Neither was their 0-line.

But Orton isn't better than Cassel. At best he's the same. All the Chiefs would be doing is exchanging being pissed off at one quarterback for another.

I really hope that I am wrong and that Orton is an upgrade. That would mean the coaches and the surrounding talent are better than I think.

[BoneKrusher]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Even those who didn't like Cassel knew he was better than Orton.

speaking for myself:
Cassel will NEVER be better than Orton.

unless you like 3-5 yard passes and lots of INTs.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

With JC, Berry and Moeaki the Chiefs have enough talent to make it to the playoffs....barely.

This offensive and defensive line aren't good enough to dominate anything.

Add a few pieces? The same can be said of any team. You add the right impact player and suddenly it makes a huge difference.

But this team doesn't have an impact player in the front three of the defensive line.

They don't have a single great player along the offensive line.

They have a single great player on offense, and that is Bowe. JC would give them a second.

They have a great interior LB and a good, borderline great OLB.

Flowers is a very good corner. Carr is average to good. Berry looked promising, but still wasn't 'great' yet. And, Kendrick Lewis looks solid.

The Chiefs have a bunch of quality NFL starters, but very few great players.

This team is still building and certainly going in the right direction.... but lets be a little realistic.

The defense and running game plus our cooshy schedule made it perfectly acceptable for our QB to throw for 150-175 yards and 0-1 TDs and still win. The majority of those yards were on dumpoff passes.

Name me a few games last season when you remember Cassel leading a major 4th quarter charge to win the game?

If he didn't produce yards and he didn't lead a 4th quarter charge, then what did he do? And how did he perform against legit defenses?

Again, the team won IN SPITE of him. Not because of him.

[BoneKrusher]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Again, the team won IN SPITE of him. Not because of him.

A-Men Brother.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by JD10367

It's a good thing you don't care what the stats say, then. Since when you compare career averages Cassel actually has minutely better stats than Orton in TD/INT ratio, QB rating, completion %, and even YPC (despite everyone saying how great Orton is at throwing downfield).

I find it hilarious how so many people hated Orton when he was in Chicago and made fun of him, made fun of him getting traded to Denver, made fun of him getting cut by Denver in favor of Tim Tebow, but now that KC picked him up suddenly he's a great option.

Cassel wasn't the answer. Everyone wanted Cassel gone. And instead of seeing what Palko and Stanzi have, they spent $2.5M on someone who's possibly worse than Cassel.

And Orton will probably play well, for a game or two. He'll trick you into thinking it was the right move. But eventually KC will find out what Chicago and Denver did: he's just as average as the multitude of average QBs who aren't good enough to lead a team, and take it to the Super Bowl. And when they finally do find that out, he will have won a few games--just enough to push them down the draft chart until they can't get a good QB in Round One.

They took the option you all complain about: take someone else's trash and try to polish it up. You can't polish a turd (unless you're a Mythbuster).

Career averages.

You can't lump Chicago into there. He's said specifically that in Chicago, they asked him to do 3-step, quick reads. They specifically asked him to be a game manager. Virtually his entire playbook did this. In Denver, they opened up the entire playbook. That had everything to do with coaching philosophy. Orton's Denver stats vs. Chicago don't even compare.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Pats...32nd defense... and many injuries in secondary. Amazing that the offense looked better against them.

Re-watch the game. Watch him physically move blockers and then, wa la, a blitzer moved right into the guy.

The reason Cassel struggled later this season is because teams realized he has no ability whatsoever to read the blitz. Do you know how many times I saw more blitzers than blockers? That's on the QB. Blame the offensive line all you want, but the QB's job is to adjust for the blitz and hit the hot route. If you don't do that, you're going to struggle as an NFL QB.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The defense and running game plus our cooshy schedule made it perfectly acceptable for our QB to throw for 150-175 yards and 0-1 TDs and still win. The majority of those yards were on dumpoff passes.

Name me a few games last season when you remember Cassel leading a major 4th quarter charge to win the game?

If he didn't produce yards and he didn't lead a 4th quarter charge, then what did he do? And how did he perform against legit defenses?

Again, the team won IN SPITE of him. Not because of him.

Never said that Cassel carried this team. But, Orton still isn't an upgrade.

I hope I am wrong.

[kysirsoze]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Never said that Cassel carried this team. But, Orton still isn't an upgrade.

I hope I am wrong.

I hope you aren't. I don't want him ruining our draft pick with one or two meaningless victories. If he can take us to an AFCW title, I'll take it. Still, we all know we'll get knowcked out first round in the playoffs. If Orton means we fall out of the running for one of the top QB prospects, I am going to be pretty unhappy.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Career averages.

You can't lump Chicago into there. He's said specifically that in Chicago, they asked him to do 3-step, quick reads. They specifically asked him to be a game manager. Virtually his entire playbook did this. In Denver, they opened up the entire playbook. That had everything to do with coaching philosophy. Orton's Denver stats vs. Chicago don't even compare.

Yeah, and Matt Cassel under Weis or McDaniels doesn't compare with him under Haley or Muir (aka Mike Solari).

Amazing, isn't it?

I will be interested to see what Orton can do here. He has some things going for him here that Matt didn't.

#1) The Chiefs are losing. Haley is more aggressive when the Chiefs are losing. He will take more chances. It will give Orton more of a chance to throw the ball downfield.

#2) Baldwin should be rounding into form a little better as the season goes along.

The playbooks are similar, it comes down to how the game is called and what the coach wants. If he wants you to protect the ball at all costs, then that is what you do.

It will be interesting to see how Orton does over the last four games.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Never said that Cassel carried this team. But, Orton still isn't an upgrade.

I hope I am wrong.

I get what you are saying. I think McDaniels is probably a superior offensive mind to Haley. But not by as much as you'd like to claim. Maybe Orton was a product of the system. But I'm talking about Orton doing the things Cassel simply cannot. In NE, McDaniels designed an offense where Cassel got rid of the ball quickly and asked Randy Moss (possibly the most talented receiver of all time) to go up and get it. We learned why. In KC, he's incapable of reading the defense and field. And he's incapable of knowing how to make all the throws. He's a "throw it in the breadbasket" type guy.

Orton was asked to run a more traditional offense in Denver. He had receivers far inferior to Moss and Welker. He's not going to be asked nearly as much to carry the team as he was asked to in Denver. The system is going to suit him well. I think by the last 4 games, you'll see not how good Orton is, but how bad Cassel was. I feel like Haley's offense made it very easy for a legit QB to make plays, but you can't do anything when your QB is incapable of executing the basics.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

I hope you aren't. I don't want him ruining our draft pick with one or two meaningless victories. If he can take us to an AFCW title, I'll take it. Still, we all know we'll get knowcked out first round in the playoffs. If Orton means we fall out of the running for one of the top QB prospects, I am going to be pretty unhappy.

#1) I don't assume the Chiefs were taking a QB anyway.

#2) If I am wrong, it means that the cast around Cassel is better and that Haley is a better coach than I think.

See, I just see a pretty good team led by an average coach.

If Cassel really is to blame for ALL their woes, then that will be great.

I still see a below average Offensive and defensive line. So, I don't really think that is the case.... but I sure hope it is.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I get what you are saying. I think McDaniels is probably a superior offensive mind to Haley. But not by as much as you'd like to claim. Maybe Orton was a product of the system. But I'm talking about Orton doing the things Cassel simply cannot. In NE, McDaniels designed an offense where Cassel got rid of the ball quickly and asked Randy Moss (possibly the most talented receiver of all time) to go up and get it. We learned why. In KC, he's incapable of reading the defense and field. And he's incapable of knowing how to make all the throws. He's a "throw it in the breadbasket" type guy.

Orton was asked to run a more traditional offense in Denver. He had receivers far inferior to Moss and Welker.

I really am anxious to see what Orton can do. I think it could tell us a lot about Cassel.

Either way, Cassel or Haley needs to be gone. Haley clearly doesn't work well with him. So, it will be interesting to see how he does with Orton.

I would be fine with both of them leaving, honestly.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I really am anxious to see what Orton can do. I think it could tell us a lot about Cassel.

Either way, Cassel or Haley needs to be gone. Haley clearly doesn't work well with him. So, it will be interesting to see how he does with Orton.

I would be fine with both of them leaving, honestly.

Cassel needs to be the first to go. I don't think it has anything to do with them not getting along. It has everything to do with Cassel not executing the basics. And when Weis and Zorn can't coach those into you, it's the QB, not the coach. Cassel handcuffed Haley a lot more than the other way around. They asked him to do basic stuff and he couldn't do it. It's only fair that Haley gets a chance to show what he can do with a QB who can actually execute his gameplan.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Cassel needs to be the first to go. I don't think it has anything to do with them not getting along. It has everything to do with Cassel not executing the basics. And when Weis and Zorn can't coach those into you, it's the QB, not the coach. Cassel handcuffed Haley a lot more than the other way around. They asked him to do basic stuff and he couldn't do it. It's only fair that Haley gets a chance to show what he can do with a QB who can actually execute his gameplan.

Please don't tell me that Weis couldn't coach him. He was a pro bowl alternate and offensive player of the month under him.