** OFFICIAL: "Do You Believe in God and an Afterlife?" Thread** - Page 6

Mr. Kotter · 11:26 AM

Simple question.

I'm just curious how representative this place is, compared with mainstream America on the question. A few threads of late, just got me wondering....

Please feel free to discuss.

**Baby Lee** · 12-01-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

No its like saying I'm not a fan of the Raiders and Donkeys but am a fan of the Chiefs and Redskins. You are not a fan and you are a fan. Thats all you are both.

Dave

Surely you are not this dense.

A - without
Theist - Belief in a higher power.

Therefore, if you have a belief in a higher power, you are no longer atheist.

If I don't follow Thor, I'm a Thor rejectionist, nothing more. I'm not an atheist until I have rejected ALL higher power and the possibility of ANY higher power.

BIG_DADDY · 12-01-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Surely you are not this dense.

A - without
Theist - Belief in a higher power.

Therefore, if you have a belief in a higher power, you are no longer atheist.

If I don't follow Thor, I'm a Thor rejectionist, nothing more. I'm not an atheist until I have rejected ALL higher power and the possibility of ANY higher power.

Dave isn't dense at all he is just another miserable atheist that likes acting like he is smarter than everyone else.

BucEyedPea · 12-01-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

Dave isn't dense at all he is just another miserable atheist that likes acting like he is smarter than everyone else.

Or an intolerant religion hater with an axe to grind about faiths?

**noa** · 12-01-2006, 02:23 PM

I embrace the fact that when I die, the particles that make up my body will be incorporated back into the planet and that I can contribute to life in another form. I am thankful every day that I get to experience humanity, but I know that my mortality is an important facet of that experience, and rather than hope that there is something beyond for my 'soul' or my 'self', I choose to embrace the inevitability that there is something beyond for my body.
I have a hard time believing in heaven or hell because these notions were invented by humans, and while some claim this is divinely inspired, who is to say which divine inspiration is correct? How do we know that Greek myths weren't divinely inspired, or Egyptian beliefs in the afterlife?
I believe that the Judeo-Christian beliefs in eschatology and heaven and hell are a result of the Israelites contact with Zoroastrians and other surrounding peoples, not because God sent his divine inspiration to tell a select few about the realities of heaven and hell.

Mr. Kotter · 12-01-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Surely you are not this dense.

A - without
Theist - Belief in a higher power.

Therefore, if you have a belief in a higher power, you are no longer atheist.

If I don't follow Thor, I'm a Thor rejectionist, nothing more. I'm not an atheist until I have rejected ALL higher power and the possibility of ANY higher power.

I've met Dave. He's a good egg.

I do consider his religious bigotry to be a bit astonishing for someone who seems pretty educated, though. Perhaps that's the problem though, too much exposure to anti-religious propaganda. To each his own, I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Or an intolerant religion hater with an axe to grind about faiths?

It only seems to come out in these kinds of threads, but, yeah.

Nightfyre · 12-01-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noa949

I embrace the fact that when I die, the particles that make up my body will be incorporated back into the planet and that I can contribute to life in another form. I am thankful every day that I get to experience humanity, but I know that my mortality is an important facet of that experience, and rather than hope that there is something beyond for my 'soul' or my 'self', I choose to embrace the inevitability that there is something beyond for my body.
I have a hard time believing in heaven or hell because these notions were invented by humans, and while some claim this is divinely inspired, who is to say which divine inspiration is correct? How do we know that Greek myths weren't divinely inspired, or Egyptian beliefs in the afterlife?
I believe that the Judeo-Christian beliefs in eschatology and heaven and hell are a result of the Israelites contact with Zoroastrians and other surrounding peoples, not because God sent his divine inspiration to tell a select few about the realities of heaven and hell.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Most articulate and well-thought up post yet. Rep.

**Dave Lane** · 12-01-2006, 02:27 PM

Sigh its just to prove a point and I understand the flexibility issues with many religious types so let me make it easy. I am not a atheist by this description. I believe there MAY be a god somewhere just not the ones man believes in.

Also I suppose if you exchange believer for atheist we can all get past this.

OK everyone on this site is a non-believer.

There does that help?

Dave

**Dave Lane** · 12-01-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I've met Dave. He's a good egg.

I do consider his religious bigotry to be a bit astonishing for someone who seems pretty educated, though. Perhaps that's the problem though, too much exposure to anti-religious propaganda. To each his own, I guess.

It only seems to come out in these kinds of threads, but, yeah.

Actually perhaps its the opposite problem. Too much forced religion. I'm the only person I associate with that is a complete non-believer (see I skipped atheist just for you Kotter

) so it is not too much negativity toward religion at all. Its purely intellectual contemplation and interest in the subject.

Dave

Ugly Duck · 12-01-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

100% Grade A atheist here.

Got hemorrhoids? If not.... you will. For God shall smiteth thee with hemorrhoids in your secret parts. Unless thou maketh golden images of your hemorrhoids, thou shall be cursethed:

The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the hemorrhoids, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. -- Deuteronomy 28:27

the hand of the LORD was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had hemorrhoids in their secret parts. -- 1 Samuel 5:6-7

What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden hemorrhoids, and five golden mice ... Wherefore ye shall make images of your hemorrhoids, and images of your mice that mar the land; and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods. -- 1 Samuel 6:4-5

Mr. Kotter · 12-01-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Sigh its just to prove a point and I understand the flexibility issues with many religious types so let me make it easy. I am not a atheist by this description. I believe there MAY be a god somewhere just not the ones man believes in.

Also I suppose if you exchange believer for atheist we can all get past this.

OK everyone on this site is a non-believer.

There does that help?

Dave

So, you are actually agnostic.

For the record, those many of us who are practicing Christians, but at heart really deists....and we simply find Christianity a convenient, and useful avenue, through which we can pursue a spiritual life. I'm not trying to speak for others, but in candid and in-depth conversations with other "Christians" many will admit as much when pressed on the issue.

You simply reject the choice we have chosen, perhaps because of some aversion or bad experience with institutionalized religion. Many practicing Christians also have "questions" about the precise nature and character of God--they (we) just choose a convenient and culturally, easy, path to satisfying our spiritual needs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Actually perhaps its the opposite problem. Too much forced religion. I'm the only person I associate with that is a complete non-believer (see I skipped atheist just for you Kotter

) so it is not too much negativity toward religion at all. Its purely intellectual contemplation and interest in the subject.

Dave

Fair enough

InChiefsHeaven · 12-01-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Sigh its just to prove a point and I understand the flexibility issues with many religious types so let me make it easy. I am not a atheist by this description. I believe there MAY be a god somewhere just not the ones man believes in.

Also I suppose if you exchange believer for atheist we can all get past this.

OK everyone on this site is a non-believer.

There does that help?

Dave

Well, why didn't you just SAY that??

Nightfyre · 12-01-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Duck

Got hemorrhoids? If not.... you will. For God shall smiteth thee with hemorrhoids in your secret parts. Unless thou maketh golden images of your hemorrhoids, thou shall be cursethed:

The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the hemorrhoids, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. -- Deuteronomy 28:27

the hand of the LORD was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had hemorrhoids in their secret parts. -- 1 Samuel 5:6-7

What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden hemorrhoids, and five golden mice ... Wherefore ye shall make images of your hemorrhoids, and images of your mice that mar the land; and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods. -- 1 Samuel 6:4-5

Oh come on. Deuteronomy wasn't even cannonized, IIRC. While we're at Deut
6:10-12

Quote:

When the Lord your God has brought you into the land that he swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give you--a land with fine, large cities that you did not build, houses filled with all sorts of goods that you did not fill, hewn cisterns that you did not hew, vineyards and olive groves that you did not plant--and when you have eaten your fill, take care that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

It is also worth noting that Deuteronomy was written a time after the events took place (I don't recall how long after.)

Mr. Kotter · 12-01-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noa949

I embrace the fact that when I die, the particles that make up my body will be incorporated back into the planet and that I can contribute to life in another form. I am thankful every day that I get to experience humanity, but I know that my mortality is an important facet of that experience, and rather than hope that there is something beyond for my 'soul' or my 'self', I choose to embrace the inevitability that there is something beyond for my body.
I have a hard time believing in heaven or hell because these notions were invented by humans, and while some claim this is divinely inspired, who is to say which divine inspiration is correct? How do we know that Greek myths weren't divinely inspired, or Egyptian beliefs in the afterlife?
I believe that the Judeo-Christian beliefs in eschatology and heaven and hell are a result of the Israelites contact with Zoroastrians and other surrounding peoples, not because God sent his divine inspiration to tell a select few about the realities of heaven and hell.

Interesting response. Some valid points too.

I'll repost what I said to Dave:

For the record, those many of us who are practicing Christians, but at heart really deists....and we simply find Christianity a convenient, and useful avenue, through which we can pursue a spiritual life. I'm not trying to speak for others, but in candid and in-depth conversations with other "Christians" many will admit as much when pressed on the issue.

You simply reject the choice we have chosen, perhaps because of some aversion or bad experience with institutionalized religion. Many practicing Christians also have "questions" about the precise nature and character of God--they (we) just choose a convenient and culturally, easy, path to satisfying our spiritual needs.

Ugly Duck · 12-01-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

It is also worth noting that Deuteronomy was written a time after the events took place

Oh, so Deuteronomy is not the Infallible Word of God. What other parts of the Infallible Work of God are fallible?

What about Samuel? Scabbed, itchy hemorrhoids galore:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/1sam/intro.html

**Dave Lane** · 12-01-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

So, you are actually agnostic.

For the record, those many of us who are practicing Christians, but at heart really deists....and we simply find Christianity a convenient, and useful avenue, through which we can pursue a spiritual life. I'm not trying to speak for others, but in candid and in-depth conversations with other "Christians" many will admit as much when pressed on the issue.

You simply reject the choice we have chosen, perhaps because of some aversion or bad experience with institutionalized religion. Many practicing Christians also have "questions" about the precise nature and character of God--they (we) just choose a convenient and culturally, easy, path to satisfying our spiritual needs.

I like that description very much. Thanks for that admission. I can understand that and can relateto that. I've looked at many religions but am really just looking for a group maybe more like Habitat for Humanity that doesn't really worship and isn't tied to dogma but goes out and does what the bible preaches and helps the less fortunate in life. Thats the type of "religion" I could enjoy and respect.

And I don't mean the 1% or so churches spend on the poor. I mean like meet in each others houses and exchange ideas on who and how to help others.

Thats my idea for a good religion.

Dave

View Poll Results: Which of the following most closely describes your beliefs:
I believe, and live accordingly.	16	11.19%
I believe, should strive accordingly....better than I do.	64	44.76%
I believe, but am not sure...	11	7.69%
I wanna believe, but have serious doubts...	10	6.99%
I have no clue--and neither do you or anyone else.	19	13.29%
I don't believe "in the myths of bronze age goat herders" or other similar "myths." However, I live a responsible and respectful life.	20	13.99%
I don't believe, and I live however the hell I choose.	2	1.40%
I believe in GAZ.	1	0.70%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll

12-01-2006, 11:21 AM
Mr. Kotter Self Ban Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: In some's minds... Casino cash: $3194285	OFFICIAL: "Do You Believe in God and an Afterlife?" Thread Simple question. I'm just curious how representative this place is, compared with mainstream America on the question. A few threads of late, just got me wondering.... Please feel free to discuss. Last edited by Mr. Kotter; 12-01-2006 at 11:26 AM..
Posts: 46,966

12-01-2006, 02:23 PM	#79
noa Band Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $-754547	I embrace the fact that when I die, the particles that make up my body will be incorporated back into the planet and that I can contribute to life in another form. I am thankful every day that I get to experience humanity, but I know that my mortality is an important facet of that experience, and rather than hope that there is something beyond for my 'soul' or my 'self', I choose to embrace the inevitability that there is something beyond for my body. I have a hard time believing in heaven or hell because these notions were invented by humans, and while some claim this is divinely inspired, who is to say which divine inspiration is correct? How do we know that Greek myths weren't divinely inspired, or Egyptian beliefs in the afterlife? I believe that the Judeo-Christian beliefs in eschatology and heaven and hell are a result of the Israelites contact with Zoroastrians and other surrounding peoples, not because God sent his divine inspiration to tell a select few about the realities of heaven and hell. __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes, well, he eats you.
Posts: 8,302

12-01-2006, 02:27 PM	#82
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Sigh its just to prove a point and I understand the flexibility issues with many religious types so let me make it easy. I am not a atheist by this description. I believe there MAY be a god somewhere just not the ones man believes in. Also I suppose if you exchange believer for atheist we can all get past this. OK everyone on this site is a non-believer. There does that help? Dave __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
Posts: 40,584