Football 2009 Broncos = the 2003 Chiefs - Page 6

**Shaid** · 10-20-2009, 10:46 PM

Think about it, crazy last second plays or multiple kick returns to pull out an improbable victory. That's just how we won early on in 2003 until the end of the year rolled around and the meltdown started. I'm still waiting for it. I'm not sold on the Broncos yet.

milkman · 10-21-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Your post is totally void of merit ... a game manager is Collins in 2008. Orton is top 10 in attempts and he's not playing a safe offense with a lead late into games. You have no proof that Orton can't win a game when they need it unless they catch a break.

And no have no proof that he can.

In Chicago, he failed to make plays when they needed them a couple of times.

Quesadilla Joe · 10-21-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

When Orton makes plays late in big games, like Roethlisberger, Manning, Brady, etc, to win games, then we can talk.

Trent Green was a system QB who put up huge numbers.
But he wasn't any more than a glorified game manager.

This has been my argument about Orton all along.

He's a game manager.

Surround him with talent and he can look like a pretty good QB.

But until he makes plays in the clutch, consistently, he is nothing more.

Would a 142.1 QB Rating in the 4th Quarter be clutch?

Or how about a 104.5 QB Rating on 3rd down... is that clutch?

Mile High Mania · 10-21-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

When Orton makes plays late in big games, like Roethlisberger, Manning, Brady, etc, to win games, then we can talk.

Trent Green was a system QB who put up huge numbers.
But he wasn't any more than a glorified game manager.

This has been my argument about Orton all along.

He's a game manager.

Surround him with talent and he can look like a pretty good QB.

But until he makes plays in the clutch, consistently, he is nothing more.

Define big play...

Does it have to be a 70 yd bomb with 7 seconds left?

Are you talking about the TD pass to Marshall to win the Dallas game?

Does the QB not become great until he's asked to pull off an amazing play in the final seconds?

Mile High Mania · 10-21-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

And no have no proof that he can.

In Chicago, he failed to make plays when they needed them a couple of times.

Hard to make plays when you don't have weapons... the Great Culter is 3-2 with that squad. Look, I'm not saying Orton = Brees... I just think he's due more credit than he is getting.

milkman · 10-21-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Define big play...

Does it have to be a 70 yd bomb with 7 seconds left?

Are you talking about the TD pass to Marshall to win the Dallas game?

Does the QB not become great until he's asked to pull off an amazing play in the final seconds?

I'm talking about running the two minute offense, making plays to move the chains, and winning a game without a fluke pass, or getting a great play from a playmaker against a soft defense.

milkman · 10-21-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

Would a 142.1 QB Rating in the 4th Quarter be clutch?

Or how about a 104.5 QB Rating on 3rd down... is that clutch?

I don't know how many times I have to say that stats mean jack to me, and that QB rating is about the most useless stat of all.

Quesadilla Joe · 10-21-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

And no have no proof that he can.

In Chicago, he failed to make plays when they needed them a couple of times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I'm talking about running the two minute offense, making plays to move the chains, and winning a game without a fluke pass, or getting a great play from a playmaker against a soft defense.

Watch the Atlanta Falcons game from last year when he was in Chicago. He took them 77 yards down the field, on the road, with two minutes to go and threw the game winning TD pass with 11 seconds left on the clock. The Bears defense lost that game for them when Elam made a walkoff field goal.

scorpio · 10-21-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

They won't be winning any playoff games.

The comparison ends there.

Thank you GoChiefs, you don't know how much this means to me and the rest of the Broncos fans.

milkman · 10-21-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

Watch the Atlanta Falcons game from last year when he was in Chicago. He took them 77 yards down the field, on the road, with two minutes to go and threw the game winning TD pass with 11 seconds left on the clock. The Bears defense lost that game for them when Elam made a walkoff field goal.

Every QB can do it at one time or another.

Hell, Steve Bono did it a couple of times

I'm talking about doing more than once, in big games.

Quesadilla Joe · 10-21-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Every QB can do it at one time or another.

Hell, Steve Bono did it a couple of times

I'm talking about doing more than once, in big games.

Well he did lead Denver down the field in overtime to set up the game winning field goal against the Patriots (He also threw the game tying TD pass to send it into overtime). And threw the GW TD pass to win the game against the Bengals. Threw the GW TD pass against the Cowboys...

DaWolf · 10-21-2009, 10:07 AM

I was thinking more 1995 Chiefs.

Right now they do have a lot of things going for them, but confidence is half the battle. Our 1995 and 1997 teams weren't in my mind legit 13-3 teams, but they did get a lot of plays going their way (Vanover kickoff returns, long game winning field goals, teams fumbling at the end of games, etc). That can go a long way.

Denver is a very prepared team and had lots of talent that is now playing to it's ability. They are sound. Some of me still wonders if other teams haven't been taking them lightly, expecting the pumpkin to appear, and I wonder this based off of the comments I heard that Rivers was making the other night about how they were going to score all day against them.

They will be interesting to watch as the season progresses, and especially in terms of seeing if they can get beyond the first game in the playoffs...

Mile High Mania · 10-21-2009, 10:10 AM

Milkman, I think I could show you 6-10 examples and you could excuse them all... we'll just agree to disagree and see how things unfold.

It's either going to be a soft defense, a fluke, something from 2 years ago... or it was a great RB, TE or WR that made the play and not Orton. That's fine though.

Garcia Bronco · 10-21-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Every QB can do it at one time or another.

Hell, Steve Bono did it a couple of times

I'm talking about doing more than once, in big games.

He;s done it the past 3-4 weeks, and the first week.

milkman · 10-21-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

He;s done it the past 3-4 weeks, and the first week.

Two minute offense, making plays to move the chains.

I don't think so.

DrRyan · 10-21-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I think it depends on the matchup.

And I do think that Orton has performed better and is a much better leader than Grlbac ever was at any time in his career.

Just curious Dane, what does Grbac have to do with a discussion of the 2003 Chiefs and the 2009 Broncos?

10-20-2009, 10:46 PM
Shaid Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Casino cash: $2825783	2009 Broncos = the 2003 Chiefs Think about it, crazy last second plays or multiple kick returns to pull out an improbable victory. That's just how we won early on in 2003 until the end of the year rolled around and the meltdown started. I'm still waiting for it. I'm not sold on the Broncos yet.
Posts: 5,690

10-21-2009, 10:07 AM	#86
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	I was thinking more 1995 Chiefs. Right now they do have a lot of things going for them, but confidence is half the battle. Our 1995 and 1997 teams weren't in my mind legit 13-3 teams, but they did get a lot of plays going their way (Vanover kickoff returns, long game winning field goals, teams fumbling at the end of games, etc). That can go a long way. Denver is a very prepared team and had lots of talent that is now playing to it's ability. They are sound. Some of me still wonders if other teams haven't been taking them lightly, expecting the pumpkin to appear, and I wonder this based off of the comments I heard that Rivers was making the other night about how they were going to score all day against them. They will be interesting to watch as the season progresses, and especially in terms of seeing if they can get beyond the first game in the playoffs...
Posts: 6,798

10-21-2009, 10:10 AM	#87
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3397229	Milkman, I think I could show you 6-10 examples and you could excuse them all... we'll just agree to disagree and see how things unfold. It's either going to be a soft defense, a fluke, something from 2 years ago... or it was a great RB, TE or WR that made the play and not Orton. That's fine though. __________________
Posts: 30,349