Combine Winners and Losers - Page 7

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-02-2010, 01:56 PM

These are my opinions, but obviously borrowed from the research of others

Winners:

OL:

Russell Okung. Showed very good athleticism, ideal size, and good strength. Solidified himself as the consensus #1 tackle according to scouts (even if I think he's not).

Bruce Campbell. Absolute ****ing freak. Same size as Okung, even more athletic. Dominated the drills

Trent Williams. May end up being Jamaal Brown. Far more athletic than previously thought

Roger Saffold. Could be this year's Branden Albert--a G prospect who transitions to T. That said, with his frame, I think he's an ideal RT for a team that passes a lot. If I'm NO, I look at him as a replacement for Stinchcomb at the bottom of Round 2.

DL: Ndamukong Suh. Showed up, did everything, and did it well. Showed he wasn't afraid to compete. Separated himself from McCoy, as he was his equal in agility drills and speed, and showed that he also has as much explosion with more upper body strength.

Jason Pierre Paul. Lack of production is alarming, but his potential isn't. Mayock compared him to Jevon Kearse. His upside is probably Mario Williams.

Lemarr Houston. Beasted the drills. Looks like a great 3 technique prospect.

Everson Griffen. Tremendous measureables combined with solid production. With his speed, he could be a 4-3 RDE or a ROLB in a 3-4. Probably a mid-20s guy who a lot of teams are going to regret passing on. Atlanta needs to have him targeted

Linval Joseph. He's going to skyrocket. He can play NT in a 4-3, NT in a 3-4, or 5 technique. Big with long arms (34 1/2"). I wouldn't mind the Chiefs taking him with their 3rd rounder.

Torrell Troup. Did well in agility drills, ran well, and showed good strength. Long arms, can put on another 25 pounds and anchor a 3-4.

LB:

Sean Weatherspoon. GODMODE.

Darryl Washington. Ran really well and killed the drills. Probably limited to a 4-3 Will backer.

Jamar Chaney. Absolutely dominated the physical part of the combine. Dominated. He has the size to be a 3-4 Mike, but his speed will make him far more valuable to a 4-3 team. He's probably a mid 2nd round pick at worst right now. His athleticism is the definition of sideline to sideline.

DB:

Taylor Mays. Killed the 40 and showed enough agility in the drills to quell concerns about his hip fluidity.

Eric Berry. Performed beyond expectations. Measured bigger, and had an amazing vertical jump (43"). Showed good speed as well. He is Ed Reed.

QB:

None. Jarrett Brown showed speed and arm strength, but his accuracy was poor. Sam Bradford showed he could put on 25 pounds while using steroids.

WR:

Jacoby Ford. Moved himself up into the 3rd round with his 40 time alone

Golden Tate. Looks like an ideal slot receiver w/ his combination of quickness and speed.

Scott Long. Warriored the Workout, but he's never done anything on the field. Got buzz, though.

RB: Ryan Matthews. The #1 pure RB in this class w/o question.

Jahvid Best. Outran Spiller and showed really good agility in the cone drills. Surprising size @ 200 lbs. Could be Jamaal Charlesesque.

Ben Tate. Looks like a really good mid-round option

TE: Clay Harbor. Performed like he was created in a lab. Small school prospect with all the tools.

Jimmy Graham. Absolutely amazing combine and ungodly size. He's a matchup nightmare.

Losers:

QB: Cart McCoy. His shoulder injury, which would be healed w/in "days" then became "two weeks" and now it's been nearly two months and he still won't throw. He also measured 2 inches shorter than his listed height. He's a ****ing bum. Well, bums have heart...

Dan LeFevour. Absolutely idiotic decision not to throw. Killed himself in the eyes of scouts.

WR: Brandon Lafell. Poor time combined with a blah season. He's probably a late 2nd at best now. Really small hands for a WR (8 3/4")

Dez Bryant. Reportedly bombed the interviews. Came off as irresponsible, and didn't run to protect his inflated stock.

Mike Williams. Awful results, even worse interviews. May not be drafted

RB: Jonathan Dwyer. Looked doughy and did not perform well. Combined with the weird system he came from, he's looking like the 3rd rounder I said he was.

TE: Rob Gronkowski. Came off as a pussy shit bitch by declaring himself 100% but not participating in anything when he hasn't played in a year.

OL: Anthony Davis. Poor physical measureables for a guy with a host of other concerns is not good.

Ciron Black. May not be draftable after his abortion of a performance.

DE: Greg Hardy. No one hurt his stock more this season than Hardy. He'll be off the boards of several teams completely and he shows a complete lack of passion for the game. He also can't stop gorging his fat ass.

George Selvie. An awful performance capping off two shit awful years at USF. He's a late round player now.

Carlos Dunlap. Awful interviews combined with huge character concerns and a lack of production make him Michael Johnson part 2.

DT: None. McCoy, who didn't have a great combine, still did well enough, but may have solidified himself as the #2 rather than putting himself in the argument with Suh

LB: Brandon Spikes. Wouldn't run but did all the other drills, on which he completely embarrassed himself. Lacks explosion (29" vertical is pathetic) and speed (wouldn't run). He's strictly a 2 down player and probably a 3rd rounder at best. Could go as late as the fifth.

Micah Johnson. You could time him with a sundial. May end up being this year's Danell Ellerbe, though. He and Spikes could both be role players, but won't ever be anything more.

Rolando McClain. Invented an injury to prevent from exposing himself, just like Bryant.

DB. Myron Rolle. Great story, but he's not an NFL player. Too slow, too stiff.

Joe Haden. Ran in the Malcolm Jenkins territory without the size. He's probably a 12-15 pick right now

chiefzilla1501 · 03-03-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Shutup dick, you don't know what you're talking.....

Wait...what did you say?

If I agree with you, then I'm clearly mistaken. I generally find you to be the football equivalent of a CoMo prognostication.

Good thing I'm pro-Clausen or I'd be really concerned about backing Berry.

Sorry, buddy, but those are my top 2 too.

Chiefs=Champions · 03-03-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

The three most important positions on the football field are, in order, QB, Rush End, and Blindside Protector. If you have a chance to take the best at one of those positions in a draft, you take it unless you have a top five guy at that position there already on your team.

So really you should be pimping Clausen??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I agree that Eric Berry has all the intangibles, and looks to be an excellent prospect, but he's not going to do as much for this team as Okung would in terms of providing high level of play at one of the top positions of need and importance.

I would rather an Ed Reed clone over John Tait any day of the week...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Safety is a luxury pick, and in passing on high level players at core positions for high level players at secondary positions is what will cost this team in the long run. And I'd even argue that Okung matches Berry in terms of physical abilities and intangibles and on-field production relevant to his specific position.

Seriously? he doesn’t seem all that impressive to me. I would have rather (if i thought Albert was a bust) taken a left tackle last year.. To be honest im starting to like Bruce Campbell a lot more than Okung...

Im not sure how having an Ed Reed clone hurts this team in any way? With this league becoming pass oriented i dont see at all how it can hurt the Chiefs. I think ull find that the value of safeties in future drafts will sky rocket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Not at all. If you don't have a franchise level quarterback and have the opportunity to draft one, you draft one over every other position. If you have the opportunity to draft an elite rush end (and I mean ELITE) and you don't have one, you take him. And if you have the opportunity to take that elite left tackle and you don't have one, you take him.

So again we should be taking Clausen then??

When it comes down to it the only way you can justify your pimping of Okung is by your belief that he will be a top 10 tackle in this league, Albert is a complete bust and Cassel is going to be a franchise QB.

That’s all fine your entitled to ur opinion, but it is of my opinion that Okung is not a top 10 LT, Albert will be fine and Cassel sucks donkey dick. Also im of the belief that Clausen seem like a possible franchise tackle and that Berry is essentially Ed Reed, while Okung is nothing special.

With that in mind IMHO it is most certainly a skull **** of a pick to take Okung, as through him were wasting a high pick on a player that IMO we already have and using one of our limited high first round picks in doing so...

It will be interesting to see whos right and whos wrong but we wont no for awhile now.

However it seems pretty stupid to question my takes on football and the draft and vice versa when essentially were using the same method but with different opinions on certain players...

Chiefs=Champions · 03-03-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

and yet it's still just one draft pick

if that pick turns out to be a quality player it doesn't really matter what position they play and it will hardly wreck the franchise for years.

It will if we miss out on another chance to draft a franchise QB or a game changing saftey for a 'quality player' at LT....................

Saccopoo · 03-04-2010, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good

It will be interesting to see whos right and whos wrong but we wont no for awhile now.

It will be about the second week of summer camp at the latest. When they make Bulaga their starting left tackle and Albert is at either left or right guard, depending upon who they prefer at either position between Waters and Albert.

In three years, you'll be begging the gods of replay that they had the opportunity to take Okung, as Berry languishes in relative obscurity in Tampa Bay, Bulaga is a middling LT for the Chiefs, and Okung is knocking the piss out of people under Shanahan in DC.

**Reaper16** · 03-04-2010, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

It will be about the second week of summer camp at the latest. When they make Bulaga their starting left tackle and Albert is at either left or right guard, depending upon who they prefer at either position between Waters and Albert.

In three years, you'll be begging the gods of replay that they had the opportunity to take Okung, as Berry languishes in relative obscurity in Tampa Bay, Bulaga is a middling LT for the Chiefs, and Okung is knocking the piss out of people under Shanahan in DC.

FindtheOkung

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-04-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

The Patriots won the 2004 superbowl (that was Wilforks rookie year and Romeos last in NE FTR) He started the second half of the season and did so start in the superbowl.

http://www.patriots.com/search/index...=11016&pcid=41

Warren was there for the 2003 and 2004 superbowl. (thats 2 buddy, though I dont think he started in his first superbowl I know he started in the 2004 one from the article I linked)

You cant deflect that a lot of the best teams in the NFL spend a lot of first rounders on their DL and more specifically their run defense.

No, most NFL teams spend first rounders on pass rushers, not Tyson Jacksons.

Yes, it's an important position from the perspective of the run defense of a 3-4, and yes its value will increase as more teams run the 3-4, but you were putting words in my mouth by assuming that they didn't spend picks on DL. I didn't.

What I said was that New England won their Super Bowls when all of the linemen who are there now were not major contributors.

You don't have to have 3 1st rounders on your DL to be successful, and that's born out by the fact that NE's defense has been worse since those players have become better.

They aren't a panacea.

**BossChief** · 03-04-2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

That defense in NE has sustained a high ranking because of the investment early on in the DL.

Shit that defense won championships without pass rushers because they had a DL that could take over games. Hopefully, we have exactly that once we add a true NT into the mix and get us some backers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The Patriots won 0 Super Bowls with Wilfork as starter and one with Warren.

As their LBs and secondary aged, their defense declined precipitously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

The Patriots won the 2004 superbowl (that was Wilforks rookie year and Romeos last in NE FTR) He started the second half of the season and did so start in the superbowl.

http://www.patriots.com/search/index...=11016&pcid=41

Warren was there for the 2003 and 2004 superbowl. (thats 2 buddy, though I dont think he started in his first superbowl I know he started in the 2004 one from the article I linked)

You cant deflect that a lot of the best teams in the NFL spend a lot of first rounders on their DL and more specifically their run defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

No, most NFL teams spend first rounders on pass rushers, not Tyson Jacksons.

Yes, it's an important position from the perspective of the run defense of a 3-4, and yes its value will increase as more teams run the 3-4, but you were putting words in my mouth by assuming that they didn't spend picks on DL. I didn't.

What I said was that New England won their Super Bowls when all of the linemen who are there now were not major contributors.

You don't have to have 3 1st rounders on your DL to be successful, and that's born out by the fact that NE's defense has been worse since those players have become better.

They aren't a panacea.

All I did was correct the errors in the post, if that was taken as putting words in your mouth I do apologize.

All Im saying is that this defense doesnt look to its pass rush as a reason they are consistently good, its their run defense. Over the last ten years they have only had two players (3 counting Tull banta cain last year) get double digit sacks. Its built on run defense from the inside out with versatile players.

If they decide to draft a LOLB they likely wont target the best pass rusher, more so the best run defender that can cover.

I know its not flashy, but its what to expect.

Chiefs=Champions · 03-04-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

It will be about the second week of summer camp at the latest. When they make Bulaga their starting left tackle and Albert is at either left or right guard, depending upon who they prefer at either position between Waters and Albert.

In three years, you'll be begging the gods of replay that they had the opportunity to take Okung, as Berry languishes in relative obscurity in Tampa Bay, Bulaga is a middling LT for the Chiefs, and Okung is knocking the piss out of people under Shanahan in DC.

I dont remember ever liking Bulaga... If Bulaga is the pick i seriously may hurl.....

**BossChief** · 03-04-2010, 11:12 PM

Bulaga will be the best Ol from this class when its all said and done.

I think he is much better than Okung from watching both.

I question about his arm length and his hands are small but everything else is there. Hes a good kid too.

Moeaki will be the drafts biggest sleeper, Bulaga will be the classes best OL and I think Angerer has a 10+ year career with a couple probowls.

Crazy thing is their best player last year IMHO was Adrian Clayborne and it wasnt even close. He will be a top ten guy next year.

**BossChief** · 03-04-2010, 11:12 PM

Go Hawkeyes!

tyton75 · 03-05-2010, 08:29 AM

Veldheer is the one I want in the 2nd-3rd round range

Chiefnj2 · 03-05-2010, 09:34 AM

The 34 OLB's in this draft are incredibly athletic. 240+ pound DE/OLBs who have enough quickness and agility to top almost all of the RB's in the draft (from draft nasty):

Jerry Hughes DE/OLB TCU

Probably the most fluid of the conversion 3-4 OLBs in drills..he also ran extremely well (4.69), which wasn't much of a surprise. He put up good numbers in the bench press (26), showed lower body explosiveness and true bend ability in bag drills. His short area burst to close ranks near the top of this class and it translated to the drill work in Indy. His time of 4.15 in the 20 yard short shuttle may have been one of the eye opening numbers of the weekend at any position. Especially when you consider that Hughes' short shuttle would have ranked fourth among running backs and was faster than Cal's Jahvid Best. Hughes has a solid chance to be a first round pick.

Thaddeus Gibson DE/OLB Ohio State

Gibson, 6'2" 243 pounds, was believed to have made a questionable decision to come out early for the 2010 NFL Draft. However, after looking very solid in all of the 3-4 OLB conversion drills and showing surprising strength (32 reps/225), Gibson has at least solidified a place amongst the top 3-4 OLB prospects in this year's draft. His time of 6.84 in the 3 Cone Drill would have tied Wayne State's Joique Bell for second among the running backs.

Mecca · 03-05-2010, 08:02 PM

Hughes has put himself into first round discussion at this point.

**AustinChief** · 03-06-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Hughes has put himself into first round discussion at this point.

He's athletic as all hell, my only concern is that he is a converted RB.. so I expect a pretty steep learning curve for him compared to someone like Graham.... but I would jump on either one at our 2a pick if they slipped... and I would be ecstatic if Kindle fell that far.

Saccopoo · 03-06-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

He's athletic as all hell, my only concern is that he is a converted RB.. so I expect a pretty steep learning curve for him compared to someone like Graham.... but I would jump on either one at our 2a pick if they slipped... and I would be ecstatic if Kindle fell that far.

He was a running back in high school. I don't think that by him being on the defensive side of the ball for the past four years and starting for the last two and excelling at it means that he's got some massive learning curve. It's going to be the same for both Hughes and Graham (oops! I mean Woodley - sorry about that.) in terms of converting to an OLB position in a 3-4 at the next level - if they go to a 3-4 team.

If they were all there with the Chiefs pick, I'd go:

1. Kindle
2. Hughes
3. Graham-Woodley

03-02-2010, 01:56 PM
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	Combine Winners and Losers These are my opinions, but obviously borrowed from the research of others Winners: OL: Russell Okung. Showed very good athleticism, ideal size, and good strength. Solidified himself as the consensus #1 tackle according to scouts (even if I think he's not). Bruce Campbell. Absolute **ing freak. Same size as Okung, even more athletic. Dominated the drills Trent Williams. May end up being Jamaal Brown. Far more athletic than previously thought Roger Saffold. Could be this year's Branden Albert--a G prospect who transitions to T. That said, with his frame, I think he's an ideal RT for a team that passes a lot. If I'm NO, I look at him as a replacement for Stinchcomb at the bottom of Round 2. DL: Ndamukong Suh. Showed up, did everything, and did it well. Showed he wasn't afraid to compete. Separated himself from McCoy, as he was his equal in agility drills and speed, and showed that he also has as much explosion with more upper body strength. Jason Pierre Paul. Lack of production is alarming, but his potential isn't. Mayock compared him to Jevon Kearse. His upside is probably Mario Williams. Lemarr Houston. Beasted the drills. Looks like a great 3 technique prospect. Everson Griffen. Tremendous measureables combined with solid production. With his speed, he could be a 4-3 RDE or a ROLB in a 3-4. Probably a mid-20s guy who a lot of teams are going to regret passing on. Atlanta needs to have him targeted Linval Joseph. He's going to skyrocket. He can play NT in a 4-3, NT in a 3-4, or 5 technique. Big with long arms (34 1/2"). I wouldn't mind the Chiefs taking him with their 3rd rounder. Torrell Troup. Did well in agility drills, ran well, and showed good strength. Long arms, can put on another 25 pounds and anchor a 3-4. LB: Sean Weatherspoon. GODMODE. Darryl Washington. Ran really well and killed the drills. Probably limited to a 4-3 Will backer. Jamar Chaney. Absolutely dominated the physical part of the combine. Dominated. He has the size to be a 3-4 Mike, but his speed will make him far more valuable to a 4-3 team. He's probably a mid 2nd round pick at worst right now. His athleticism is the definition of sideline to sideline. DB: Taylor Mays. Killed the 40 and showed enough agility in the drills to quell concerns about his hip fluidity. Eric Berry. Performed beyond expectations. Measured bigger, and had an amazing vertical jump (43"). Showed good speed as well. He is Ed Reed. QB: None. Jarrett Brown showed speed and arm strength, but his accuracy was poor. Sam Bradford showed he could put on 25 pounds while using steroids. WR: Jacoby Ford. Moved himself up into the 3rd round with his 40 time alone Golden Tate. Looks like an ideal slot receiver w/ his combination of quickness and speed. Scott Long. Warriored the Workout, but he's never done anything on the field. Got buzz, though. RB: Ryan Matthews. The #1 pure RB in this class w/o question. Jahvid Best. Outran Spiller and showed really good agility in the cone drills. Surprising size @ 200 lbs. Could be Jamaal Charlesesque. Ben Tate. Looks like a really good mid-round option TE: Clay Harbor. Performed like he was created in a lab. Small school prospect with all the tools. Jimmy Graham. Absolutely amazing combine and ungodly size. He's a matchup nightmare. Losers: QB: Cart McCoy. His shoulder injury, which would be healed w/in "days" then became "two weeks" and now it's been nearly two months and he still won't throw. He also measured 2 inches shorter than his listed height. He's a **ing bum. Well, bums have heart... Dan LeFevour. Absolutely idiotic decision not to throw. Killed himself in the eyes of scouts. WR: Brandon Lafell. Poor time combined with a blah season. He's probably a late 2nd at best now. Really small hands for a WR (8 3/4") Dez Bryant. Reportedly bombed the interviews. Came off as irresponsible, and didn't run to protect his inflated stock. Mike Williams. Awful results, even worse interviews. May not be drafted RB: Jonathan Dwyer. Looked doughy and did not perform well. Combined with the weird system he came from, he's looking like the 3rd rounder I said he was. TE: Rob Gronkowski. Came off as a pussy shit bitch by declaring himself 100% but not participating in anything when he hasn't played in a year. OL: Anthony Davis. Poor physical measureables for a guy with a host of other concerns is not good. Ciron Black. May not be draftable after his abortion of a performance. DE: Greg Hardy. No one hurt his stock more this season than Hardy. He'll be off the boards of several teams completely and he shows a complete lack of passion for the game. He also can't stop gorging his fat ass. George Selvie. An awful performance capping off two shit awful years at USF. He's a late round player now. Carlos Dunlap. Awful interviews combined with huge character concerns and a lack of production make him Michael Johnson part 2. DT: None. McCoy, who didn't have a great combine, still did well enough, but may have solidified himself as the #2 rather than putting himself in the argument with Suh LB: Brandon Spikes. Wouldn't run but did all the other drills, on which he completely embarrassed himself. Lacks explosion (29" vertical is pathetic) and speed (wouldn't run). He's strictly a 2 down player and probably a 3rd rounder at best. Could go as late as the fifth. Micah Johnson. You could time him with a sundial. May end up being this year's Danell Ellerbe, though. He and Spikes could both be role players, but won't ever be anything more. Rolando McClain. Invented an injury to prevent from exposing himself, just like Bryant. DB. Myron Rolle. Great story, but he's not an NFL player. Too slow, too stiff. Joe Haden. Ran in the Malcolm Jenkins territory without the size. He's probably a 12-15 pick right now
Posts: 75,083

03-04-2010, 11:12 PM	#99
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $-1755912	Bulaga will be the best Ol from this class when its all said and done. I think he is much better than Okung from watching both. I question about his arm length and his hands are small but everything else is there. Hes a good kid too. Moeaki will be the drafts biggest sleeper, Bulaga will be the classes best OL and I think Angerer has a 10+ year career with a couple probowls. Crazy thing is their best player last year IMHO was Adrian Clayborne and it wasnt even close. He will be a top ten guy next year. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,905

03-04-2010, 11:12 PM	#100
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $-1755912	Go Hawkeyes! __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,905

03-05-2010, 08:29 AM	#101
tyton75 Veteran Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3698386	Veldheer is the one I want in the 2nd-3rd round range __________________
Posts: 3,336

03-05-2010, 09:34 AM	#102
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	The 34 OLB's in this draft are incredibly athletic. 240+ pound DE/OLBs who have enough quickness and agility to top almost all of the RB's in the draft (from draft nasty): Jerry Hughes DE/OLB TCU Probably the most fluid of the conversion 3-4 OLBs in drills..he also ran extremely well (4.69), which wasn't much of a surprise. He put up good numbers in the bench press (26), showed lower body explosiveness and true bend ability in bag drills. His short area burst to close ranks near the top of this class and it translated to the drill work in Indy. His time of 4.15 in the 20 yard short shuttle may have been one of the eye opening numbers of the weekend at any position. Especially when you consider that Hughes' short shuttle would have ranked fourth among running backs and was faster than Cal's Jahvid Best. Hughes has a solid chance to be a first round pick. Thaddeus Gibson DE/OLB Ohio State Gibson, 6'2" 243 pounds, was believed to have made a questionable decision to come out early for the 2010 NFL Draft. However, after looking very solid in all of the 3-4 OLB conversion drills and showing surprising strength (32 reps/225), Gibson has at least solidified a place amongst the top 3-4 OLB prospects in this year's draft. His time of 6.84 in the 3 Cone Drill would have tied Wayne State's Joique Bell for second among the running backs. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541

03-05-2010, 08:02 PM	#103
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-722950	Hughes has put himself into first round discussion at this point.
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