Chiefs Offsides reality - Page 7

tredadda · 12-10-2023, 09:46 PM

Looking at the offsides on Toney and the “Let them play” mentality a few things stick out.

1. He was offsides and like it or not, that is inexcusable on his part. Toney should never line up offsides…….ever. That’s a Pee Wee league type of mistake. He didn’t just start playing football this year. Pre snap penalties are the worst because they are completely preventable. He should have never left it up to a ref to decide one way or another, especially with the quality of reffing league wide lately.

2. I get the “Let them play” mindset and not letting a questionable call impact a game. But it can’t be “Let them play” when convenient and when not calls should be made. Look at the SB when KC benefited from a penalty that essentially sealed the game. Had the refs swallowed the whistle like what was wanted today KC might well have lost the SB. We benefited from that penalty. But today we want to yell at the clouds because it was called. Both times the penalty was called, just this time it went against KC.

3. Even after the penalty they still had time to pick up the yards and score a TD and is systemic of how the offense has played for large portions of the year. This team has a championship caliber defense, but the offense is not what we all expect. That might mean an early exit this year. Simply put if the offense hasn’t figured it out by now I question whether they will.

It is what it is.

SupDock · 12-11-2023, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wachashi

Since game one this year, the refs have been hyper-critical of our alignment AND the timing of our get-off at the snap. The Chiefs are treated differently in these areas than other teams. Those are facts anyone can see.

I doubt this call is made in this situation if the whole fiasco against the Lions doesn't happen week one.

NFL refs were badly embarrassed when the entire league-wide fanbase watched Cris Collinsworth criticize Taylor's alignment/timing during the season opener. A memo was circulated after that and they've been overcompensating with those calls against the Chiefs all season.

I think it’s also the fact that Andy claimed that he put other players in Taylor’s spot and were not called. I have no doubt refs hold a grudge. Just look at when the owners added PI to review. They flat out refused to change calls.

DJ's left nut · 12-11-2023, 10:28 AM

Yeah, there are some real questions about the offensive coaching staff that need to be asked. The attention to detail issues are happening every single week.

And we keep hearing "well if we stop shooting ourselves in the foot and start executing, we'll be fine..."

But we're 3/4 of the way through the season and if anything these issues are getting worse.

I get on my kids about using the passive voice when they !@#$ something up. "Daddy my car broke. My room got messy. My sister got hit."

No, fellas - YOU broke the car. You made your room a mess. You hit your sister. These things didn't just happen - you did them.

There's a lot of passive voice being used w/r/t the offense. "The execution wasn't crisp" or "Key mistakes cost us" or "The timing/communication was off..."

Somewhere in this exchange they need to stop with the passive voice. And it doesn't have to be publicly but I question how much of it is happening privately when we're still seeing so much of it. It can't keep being "The timing was off" - no, it needs to be "Skyy rolled his route again and threw the timing off - he's not playing as many snaps next week". Or "the mistakes killed us" becomes "Toney had his head up his ass and didn't manage to line up correctly - have a seat, champ..."

No more passive voice. No more 'the mistakes happened' - now it needs to become 'X,Y,Z made the mistakes - here are the consequences...'

tredadda · 12-11-2023, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

He's lined up a FULL YARD ahead of where he should be when you look at Rice on the other side.

But sure, Pat. Let 'em play.

And THIS:

That’s the problem when it comes to the let them play mindset. Had they did the same thing in the SB, KC might have lost. Everyone outside of KC disagreed with the defensive holding that was called. But it was called and in hindsight everyone knows it was a penalty and needed to be called. No difference with the Toney penalty. The photo images show that he wasn’t offsides by a fraction, he was clearly offsides. It was pre snap which meant the line judge had plenty of time to see it. It’s not a missed or called heat of the moment penalty.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-11-2023, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, there are some real questions about the offensive coaching staff that need to be asked. The attention to detail issues are happening every single week.

And we keep hearing "well if we stop shooting ourselves in the foot and start executing, we'll be fine..."

But we're 3/4 of the way through the season and if anything these issues are getting worse.

I get on my kids about using the passive voice when they !@#$ something up. "Daddy my car broke. My room got messy. My sister got hit."

No, fellas - YOU broke the car. You made your room a mess. You hit your sister. These things didn't just happen - you did them.

There's a lot of passive voice being used w/r/t the offense. "The execution wasn't crisp" or "Key mistakes cost us" or "The timing/communication was off..."

Somewhere in this exchange they need to stop with the passive voice. And it doesn't have to be publicly but I question how much of it is happening privately when we're still seeing so much of it. It can't keep being "The timing was off" - no, it needs to be "Skyy rolled his route again and threw the timing off - he's not playing as many snaps next week". Or "the mistakes killed us" becomes "Toney had his head up his ass and didn't manage to line up correctly - have a seat, champ..."

No more passive voice. No more 'the mistakes happened' - now it needs to become 'X,Y,Z made the mistakes - here are the consequences...'

Great post, Deej.

room152 · 12-11-2023, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

The officiating was greatly biased from the beginning. The Oline holding by Buffalo was ignored until it was so obvious late in the 3rd they had to call it, the 2 OPI's on Kelce were contact before 5 yards and they were try to play bump an run on him. They want Buffalo in the playoffs so they tried to steer the game in that direction, period. If that isn't the reason, the spread being -1.5 for the Chiefs, may be the reason, and the league is going to start hearing these rumblings if they continue to have questionable calls every ****ing week in most games.

so if you are right the refs wanted Buffalo to win so badly why did they overturn Kelce's fumble? A game changing play. The ball was clearly moving and coming out before he was down. One could say the refs were for cheating for KC. And the week before two huge calls went for KC the plays before the PI call. So your the NFL want the Chiefs to lose narrative is very flawed to say the least.

stevieray · 12-11-2023, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, there are some real questions about the offensive coaching staff that need to be asked. The attention to detail issues are happening every single week.

And we keep hearing "well if we stop shooting ourselves in the foot and start executing, we'll be fine..."

But we're 3/4 of the way through the season and if anything these issues are getting worse.

I get on my kids about using the passive voice when they !@#$ something up. "Daddy my car broke. My room got messy. My sister got hit."

No, fellas - YOU broke the car. You made your room a mess. You hit your sister. These things didn't just happen - you did them.

There's a lot of passive voice being used w/r/t the offense. "The execution wasn't crisp" or "Key mistakes cost us" or "The timing/communication was off..."

Somewhere in this exchange they need to stop with the passive voice. And it doesn't have to be publicly but I question how much of it is happening privately when we're still seeing so much of it. It can't keep being "The timing was off" - no, it needs to be "Skyy rolled his route again and threw the timing off - he's not playing as many snaps next week". Or "the mistakes killed us" becomes "Toney had his head up his ass and didn't manage to line up correctly - have a seat, champ..."

No more passive voice. No more 'the mistakes happened' - now it needs to become 'X,Y,Z made the mistakes - here are the consequences...'

Too much celebrity, and not enough football.

KCJake · 12-11-2023, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by room152

so if you are right the refs wanted Buffalo to win so badly why did they overturn Kelce's fumble? A game changing play. The ball was clearly moving and coming out before he was down. One could say the refs were for cheating for KC. And the week before two huge calls went for KC the plays before the PI call. So your the NFL want the Chiefs to lose narrative is very flawed to say the least.

Even if it was ruled a fumble there was a clear recovery by Kelce. But I get what you're saying. If the team could play just a little better, they wouldn't be in these super tight games. Damn this one hurts real bad. What a great play by Kelce with that lateral.

VAGOMO 4 LIFE! · 12-11-2023, 10:41 AM

We desperately miss EB

wachashi · 12-11-2023, 10:41 AM

Everyone admits it's standard practice to give a warning to a player/coach before calling offensive offenses (one of the reasons it's so rare).

The refs claim Toney was "egregiously" offsides, and that's why no warning was given.

The fact is Toney gained zero advantage with this alignment, which is the entire point of a penalty in the first place.

The first offensive offsides penalty in Reid's long career happens to come with under two minutes to play in the fourth quarter of what amounts to a playoff game. And it happens in the same season in which the Chiefs have been repeatedly held to a different standard than the rest of the league when it comes to alignment/offsides penalties.

A lot of our fans "hate to blame the refs" but let's be real here. Refs can absolutely determine outcomes against two evenly-matched teams.

I'm with Andy Reid on this one. I think that guy has seen a thing or two, and he RARELY says a word about the refs.

Mile High Mania · 12-11-2023, 10:45 AM

It’s pretty clear he was lined up across the LOS. Anyone have a video or pic of the next play where the defender was across the LOS? I missed the play and haven’t seen a pic.

GloryDayz · 12-11-2023, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumppy

**** you KaPOSdarius Toney. That mofo needs to get thrown off of this team. And I mean actually thrown out the door.

Yes he does. Last night might have been a wakeup call for him, but he's hit snooze button too many times to think he won't press snooze again.

tredadda · 12-11-2023, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wachashi

Everyone admits it's standard practice to give a warning to a player/coach before calling offensive offenses (one of the reasons it's so rare).

The refs claim Toney was "egregiously" offsides, and that's why no warning was given.

The fact is Toney gained zero advantage with this alignment, which is the entire point of a penalty in the first place.

The first offensive offsides penalty in Reid's long career happens to come with under two minutes to play in the fourth quarter of what amounts to a playoff game. And it happens in the same season in which the Chiefs have been repeatedly held to a different standard than the rest of the league when it comes to alignment/offsides penalties.

A lot of our fans "hate to blame the refs" but let's be real here. Refs can absolutely determine outcomes against two evenly-matched teams.

I'm with Andy Reid on this one. I think that guy has seen a thing or two, and he RARELY says a word about the refs.

Point is that Toney never should have put them in a position to allow the ref to determine the outcome.

FloridaMan88 · 12-11-2023, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wachashi

Everyone admits it's standard practice to give a warning to a player/coach before calling offensive offenses (one of the reasons it's so rare).

The refs claim Toney was "egregiously" offsides, and that's why no warning was given.

The fact is Toney gained zero advantage with this alignment, which is the entire point of a penalty in the first place.

The first offensive offsides penalty in Reid's long career happens to come with under two minutes to play in the fourth quarter of what amounts to a playoff game. And it happens in the same season in which the Chiefs have been repeatedly held to a different standard than the rest of the league when it comes to alignment/offsides penalties.

A lot of our fans "hate to blame the refs" but let's be real here. Refs can absolutely determine outcomes against two evenly-matched teams.

I'm with Andy Reid on this one. I think that guy has seen a thing or two, and he RARELY says a word about the refs.

He was blatantly offsides and the NFL has made offensive players lining up offsides a point of emphasis this season... this was like the 11th or 12th offensive offsides call this season.

Instead of crying about the refs, Andy should hold his WR's more accountable for their embarrassing play.

wachashi · 12-11-2023, 10:52 AM

No one here can honestly believe that out of the 25,172 offensive snaps of Reid's career, this is the first time one of his players has lined up offsides on offense. That's ludicrous.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-11-2023, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wachashi

Everyone admits it's standard practice to give a warning to a player/coach before calling offensive offenses (one of the reasons it's so rare).

The refs claim Toney was "egregiously" offsides, and that's why no warning was given.

The fact is Toney gained zero advantage with this alignment, which is the entire point of a penalty in the first place.

The first offensive offsides penalty in Reid's long career happens to come with under two minutes to play in the fourth quarter of what amounts to a playoff game. And it happens in the same season in which the Chiefs have been repeatedly held to a different standard than the rest of the league when it comes to alignment/offsides penalties.

A lot of our fans "hate to blame the refs" but let's be real here. Refs can absolutely determine outcomes against two evenly-matched teams.

I'm with Andy Reid on this one. I think that guy has seen a thing or two, and he RARELY says a word about the refs.

If there were zero advantage to lining up on the opposite side of the ball, it wouldn't be ****ing illegal to do so.

Good grief, guys.

12-10-2023, 09:46 PM
tredadda Three-Pat Join Date: May 2011 Location: Colorado Springs Casino cash: $-2074947	Offsides reality Looking at the offsides on Toney and the “Let them play” mentality a few things stick out. 1. He was offsides and like it or not, that is inexcusable on his part. Toney should never line up offsides…….ever. That’s a Pee Wee league type of mistake. He didn’t just start playing football this year. Pre snap penalties are the worst because they are completely preventable. He should have never left it up to a ref to decide one way or another, especially with the quality of reffing league wide lately. 2. I get the “Let them play” mindset and not letting a questionable call impact a game. But it can’t be “Let them play” when convenient and when not calls should be made. Look at the SB when KC benefited from a penalty that essentially sealed the game. Had the refs swallowed the whistle like what was wanted today KC might well have lost the SB. We benefited from that penalty. But today we want to yell at the clouds because it was called. Both times the penalty was called, just this time it went against KC. 3. Even after the penalty they still had time to pick up the yards and score a TD and is systemic of how the offense has played for large portions of the year. This team has a championship caliber defense, but the offense is not what we all expect. That might mean an early exit this year. Simply put if the offense hasn’t figured it out by now I question whether they will. It is what it is.
Posts: 19,328	16 0

12-11-2023, 10:28 AM	#92
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-920901	Yeah, there are some real questions about the offensive coaching staff that need to be asked. The attention to detail issues are happening every single week. And we keep hearing "well if we stop shooting ourselves in the foot and start executing, we'll be fine..." But we're 3/4 of the way through the season and if anything these issues are getting worse. I get on my kids about using the passive voice when they !@#$ something up. "Daddy my car broke. My room got messy. My sister got hit." No, fellas - YOU broke the car. You made your room a mess. You hit your sister. These things didn't just happen - you did them. There's a lot of passive voice being used w/r/t the offense. "The execution wasn't crisp" or "Key mistakes cost us" or "The timing/communication was off..." Somewhere in this exchange they need to stop with the passive voice. And it doesn't have to be publicly but I question how much of it is happening privately when we're still seeing so much of it. It can't keep being "The timing was off" - no, it needs to be "Skyy rolled his route again and threw the timing off - he's not playing as many snaps next week". Or "the mistakes killed us" becomes "Toney had his head up his ass and didn't manage to line up correctly - have a seat, champ..." No more passive voice. No more 'the mistakes happened' - now it needs to become 'X,Y,Z made the mistakes - here are the consequences...' __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
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12-11-2023, 10:41 AM	#98
VAGOMO 4 LIFE! In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2018 Casino cash: $6350400	We desperately miss EB
Posts: 21,754	2 0

12-11-2023, 10:41 AM	#99
wachashi Veteran Join Date: Jan 2019 Casino cash: $6280400	Everyone admits it's standard practice to give a warning to a player/coach before calling offensive offenses (one of the reasons it's so rare). The refs claim Toney was "egregiously" offsides, and that's why no warning was given. The fact is Toney gained zero advantage with this alignment, which is the entire point of a penalty in the first place. The first offensive offsides penalty in Reid's long career happens to come with under two minutes to play in the fourth quarter of what amounts to a playoff game. And it happens in the same season in which the Chiefs have been repeatedly held to a different standard than the rest of the league when it comes to alignment/offsides penalties. A lot of our fans "hate to blame the refs" but let's be real here. Refs can absolutely determine outcomes against two evenly-matched teams. I'm with Andy Reid on this one. I think that guy has seen a thing or two, and he RARELY says a word about the refs.
Posts: 1,399

12-11-2023, 10:45 AM	#100
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $837229	It’s pretty clear he was lined up across the LOS. Anyone have a video or pic of the next play where the defender was across the LOS? I missed the play and haven’t seen a pic. __________________
Posts: 30,915

12-11-2023, 10:52 AM	#104
wachashi Veteran Join Date: Jan 2019 Casino cash: $6280400	No one here can honestly believe that out of the 25,172 offensive snaps of Reid's career, this is the first time one of his players has lined up offsides on offense. That's ludicrous.
Posts: 1,399