Jonathan Rand: What if (Matt) Ryan's there? - Page 8

shaneo69 · 04-10-2008, 04:27 PM

What if Ryan's there?
Apr 10, 2008, 2:15:51 AM by Jonathan Rand

What should the Chiefs do if Matt Ryan from Boston College, considered the standout quarterback in this draft, is sitting there when it’s time to make the fifth overall pick?

Thousands of Chiefs fans would be screaming, “Take him!” Some of these same fans, no doubt, were throwing chairs at their big screens last year as the Chiefs declined to trade up during Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn’s free fall. The Browns traded up with the Cowboys to grab Quinn at number 22 and the Chiefs, sitting chilly in the 23rd spot, took LSU wide receiver Dwayne Bowe.

Quinn, whom many fans urged the Browns to draft with the third overall pick, now backs up Derek Anderson — a sixth-round choice in 2005 who was waived by the Ravens.

Bowe enjoyed a standout rookie season. Had the Chiefs traded up, they would have lost Bowe and an extra high draft pick that they would have had to give to the Cowboys. For the Chiefs, trading up would have been a big mistake.

Drafting quarterbacks is a lot trickier than you might think. The list of first-round busts at this position is much longer than the list of first-round successes, which is bizarre when you consider how much tape, statistics and workout information is generated by quarterbacks.

But the adjustment from college football to the NFL is so dramatic that “can’t-miss” quarterbacks are few and far between. We still don’t know if JaMarcus Russell, the LSU quarterback picked first overall by the Raiders a year ago, was a wise pick.

The Chiefs need, first and foremost, a top-flight offensive tackle. But if Michigan’s Jake Long is one of the top four picks, the next-best tackle may not be a good enough athlete to justify taking with the fifth pick.

The Chiefs could then try to trade down or take the best player still available. And what if they consider Ryan to be that player?

Chiefs coach Herm Edwards attended Ryan’s campus workout, and should have an educated opinion on whether he’s a superior prospect to incumbent Brodie Croyle. Ryan, 6 feet 5 and 224, gets positive reviews for his size, arm and ability to throw on the run.

The Chiefs haven’t committed a first-round pick for a quarterback since they misfired with Penn State’s Todd Blackledge in 1983. Considering their long-term failure to develop a young passer, is it time now for them to finally take the plunge?

Even if the Chiefs could draft Ryan, they’d have to wonder who’d be blocking for him. It makes no sense to commit a high pick to a quarterback if you can’t protect him, and the Chiefs stand three starters short of a decent line. When the Browns drafted Quinn, they’d already solidified their protection by taking Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas with the third overall pick.

Houston’s David Carr was a classic case of a highly drafted quarterback who received scant protection. The first overall pick in 2002, he was sacked 249 times during his first years as a Texan. Recently released by the Panthers, it’s tough to know whether Carr ever had the tools to win in the NFL. But it’s fair to say it was hard for him to develop while staring at the sky.

If the Chiefs consider drafting Ryan, they need to be convinced he’s a “can’t-miss” prospect, project him as the opening-day starter and feel confident they can quickly rebuild their offensive line. The chances of Ryan being the real deal and getting enough protection to help the Chiefs progress this year appear remote. It would come as a surprise if they draft him.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/04...f_ryans_there/

Mecca · 04-11-2008, 01:54 PM

Lets take Keith Rivers then, he's safe!

Deberg_1990 · 04-11-2008, 01:55 PM

I wish we would have never drafted Derrick Thomas. He never could tackle very well.

**Tribal Warfare** · 04-11-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Do you realize that every HOF QB had flaws in his game before he was drafted???

Yeah, but that ball placement issue scares the hell out of me. So I should just downgrade my thought process about top 5 picks and some say generational players? Nah, at Top 5 you are looking for near perfection at Top 10-15 I'd give him leeway

KCChiefsMan · 04-11-2008, 02:10 PM

good God, I just watched a little bit of NFL Live and here comes Mel Kiper with his new mock. He now has us taking Branden Albert, passing up Ellis and gholston. That guy is a freaking moron. He also had Talib going #10, as much of a KU homer as I am, that's just stupid. Why do I even watch ESPN?

suds79 · 04-11-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

If you are looking for top 5 draft pick QBs John Elway is the benchmark

Okay debate setteled.

You're open to drafting a QB in the top 5 if only he's as talented as John Elway....

So basically you'd never be for drafting a QB in the top 5 ever again because one could easily make the case that nobody has ever had the tools like Elway did.

Yet is Elway the best of all time? Maybe... Maybe not. There's more to it than just the tools as I'm sure you'd agree.

Where does a guy like Ryan rank as far as smarts and decision making? How's he under pressure? Those are the questions to be asking.

Tough part is that's hard to measure.

suds79 · 04-11-2008, 03:18 PM

Furthermore, if there ever was a QB who compares similarly to John Elway, better hope we have the #1 to get him. Good luck with that.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 04-11-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

This idea that a QB has to be perfect is damn funny, alright I guess we should just wait for that and never win anything till one of those rare guys comes along...Roethlisberger was the 3rd QB taken in his draft with the 12th pick, guess he sucks.

You are not going to get a perfect prospect very often, you just aren't. The only thing Ryan doesn't have is a huge arm and frankly Brady and Manning don't even have huge arms.

Roethlisberger is a horrible example, considering he was the 3rd QB taken in one of the best 1st round classes in the past 10-15 years.

Ryan being the 1st QB off the board in this miserable class doesn't excite me.

I'm fine if we take him, fine if we don't. I think he'll be average at best in this league.

**Tribal Warfare** · 04-11-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suds79

Where does a guy like Ryan rank as far as smarts and decision making? How's he under pressure? Those are the questions to be asking.

Tough part is that's hard to measure.

See the issue I stated on ball placement

KCChiefsMan · 04-11-2008, 04:54 PM

man I wish the draft would just hurry up!

**007** · 04-11-2008, 04:55 PM

Doesn't matter. Either way the Chiefs will make the wrong decision.

suds79 · 04-11-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

Doesn't matter. Either way the Chiefs will make the wrong decision.

Wow. You're a glass is 1/2 empty kind of guy aren't ya.

Dwayne Bowe to this point looks like an outstanding pick. Cheer up.

milkman · 04-12-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Even if the Chiefs could draft Ryan, they’d have to wonder who’d be blocking for him. It makes no sense to commit a high pick to a quarterback if you can’t protect him, and the Chiefs stand three starters short of a decent line. When the Browns drafted Quinn, they’d already solidified their protection by taking Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas with the third overall pick.

This is the dumbest argument one could possibly make against drafting a top 5 QB.
Yeah, JR, we can't possibly consider taking a QB, cause there isn't any hope at all that the O-Line can't be fixed with later picks in this draft, and in the next draft.

Quote:

Houston’s David Carr was a classic case of a highly drafted quarterback who received scant protection. The first overall pick in 2002, he was sacked 249 times during his first years as a Texan. Recently released by the Panthers, it’s tough to know whether Carr ever had the tools to win in the NFL. But it’s fair to say it was hard for him to develop while staring at the sky.

David Carr is not a classic case.

That Houston O-Line, while pretty bad, was made to look worse than they were by David Carr.

The guy could never read defenses, and held on to the ball too long, something that was listed as a weakness for him when he was coming out of school.
He never learned.

I said before the '07 season that I thought the Texans would give up almost half as many sacks without Carr.

I haven't looked up the numbers, but I'd bet that was a pretty good guess.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 04-12-2008, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

This is the dumbest argument one could possibly make against drafting a top 5 QB.
Yeah, JR, we can't possibly consider taking a QB, cause there isn't any hope at all that the O-Line can't be fixed with later picks in this draft, and in the next draft.

David Carr is not a classic case.

That Houston O-Line, while pretty bad, was made to look worse than they were by David Carr.

The guy could never read defenses, and held on to the ball too long, something that was listed as a weakness for him when he was coming out of school.
He never learned.

I said before the '07 season that I thought the Texans would give up almost half as many sacks without Carr.

I haven't looked up the numbers, but I'd bet that was a pretty good guess.

They gave up 22 sacks last year.

Just goes to show that the QB is just as responsible for allowing a sack as the OLmen are.

Hell, the Chiefs were an example of that last year.

Damon Huard was sacked once per 9.22 attempts with the starting OL the majority of the time.

Brodie Croyle was sacked once per 13.17 attempts, with his action coming at the end of the year when they were playing backups such as Niswanger and Taylor, and McIntosh was out.

milkman · 04-12-2008, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs

If Jake Long is gone, and Ryan is still there, I could see making the pick. Get a RT, G, and possibly even a center as well. Then next year get Oher in the 1st round to fill out the O-line.

Sorry defensive homers, the offense needs fixed way worse than the d needs attention right now. Gun has had high draft picks and FA's for far to long.

I would bet that almost all these "defensive homers" would be all for taking Michael Oher if he were in this draft and sitting at 5.

But that's only speculation on my part.

I am not opposed to taking Jake Long if Dorsey and Ellis are off the board, but I don't believe that Long is the prospect at LT that Dorsey/Ellis are at DT, or that Oher will be next year, or even Andre Smith from Alabama.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 04-12-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I would bet that almost all these "defensive homers" would be all for taking Michael Oher if he were in this draft and sitting at 5.

But that's only speculation on my part.

I am not opposed to taking Jake Long if Dorsey and Ellis are off the board, but I don't believe that Long is the prospect at LT that Dorsey/Ellis are at DT, or that Oher will be next year, or even Andre Smith from Alabama.

You bet your ass that I'd be up for taking Oher in this draft at 5.

The three names that I keep hearing as comparisons for Oher?

Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden.

The two names that I keep hearing as comparisons for Jake Long?

Jon Runyan and Jeff Backus.

04-10-2008, 04:27 PM
shaneo69 Smug Weasel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bleachers at Busch Casino cash: $10004900	Jonathan Rand: What if (Matt) Ryan's there? What if Ryan's there? Apr 10, 2008, 2:15:51 AM by Jonathan Rand What should the Chiefs do if Matt Ryan from Boston College, considered the standout quarterback in this draft, is sitting there when it’s time to make the fifth overall pick? Thousands of Chiefs fans would be screaming, “Take him!” Some of these same fans, no doubt, were throwing chairs at their big screens last year as the Chiefs declined to trade up during Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn’s free fall. The Browns traded up with the Cowboys to grab Quinn at number 22 and the Chiefs, sitting chilly in the 23rd spot, took LSU wide receiver Dwayne Bowe. Quinn, whom many fans urged the Browns to draft with the third overall pick, now backs up Derek Anderson — a sixth-round choice in 2005 who was waived by the Ravens. Bowe enjoyed a standout rookie season. Had the Chiefs traded up, they would have lost Bowe and an extra high draft pick that they would have had to give to the Cowboys. For the Chiefs, trading up would have been a big mistake. Drafting quarterbacks is a lot trickier than you might think. The list of first-round busts at this position is much longer than the list of first-round successes, which is bizarre when you consider how much tape, statistics and workout information is generated by quarterbacks. But the adjustment from college football to the NFL is so dramatic that “can’t-miss” quarterbacks are few and far between. We still don’t know if JaMarcus Russell, the LSU quarterback picked first overall by the Raiders a year ago, was a wise pick. The Chiefs need, first and foremost, a top-flight offensive tackle. But if Michigan’s Jake Long is one of the top four picks, the next-best tackle may not be a good enough athlete to justify taking with the fifth pick. The Chiefs could then try to trade down or take the best player still available. And what if they consider Ryan to be that player? Chiefs coach Herm Edwards attended Ryan’s campus workout, and should have an educated opinion on whether he’s a superior prospect to incumbent Brodie Croyle. Ryan, 6 feet 5 and 224, gets positive reviews for his size, arm and ability to throw on the run. The Chiefs haven’t committed a first-round pick for a quarterback since they misfired with Penn State’s Todd Blackledge in 1983. Considering their long-term failure to develop a young passer, is it time now for them to finally take the plunge? Even if the Chiefs could draft Ryan, they’d have to wonder who’d be blocking for him. It makes no sense to commit a high pick to a quarterback if you can’t protect him, and the Chiefs stand three starters short of a decent line. When the Browns drafted Quinn, they’d already solidified their protection by taking Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas with the third overall pick. Houston’s David Carr was a classic case of a highly drafted quarterback who received scant protection. The first overall pick in 2002, he was sacked 249 times during his first years as a Texan. Recently released by the Panthers, it’s tough to know whether Carr ever had the tools to win in the NFL. But it’s fair to say it was hard for him to develop while staring at the sky. If the Chiefs consider drafting Ryan, they need to be convinced he’s a “can’t-miss” prospect, project him as the opening-day starter and feel confident they can quickly rebuild their offensive line. The chances of Ryan being the real deal and getting enough protection to help the Chiefs progress this year appear remote. It would come as a surprise if they draft him. http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/04...f_ryans_there/
Posts: 4,910

04-11-2008, 01:54 PM	#106
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-712950	Lets take Keith Rivers then, he's safe!
Posts: 115,380

04-11-2008, 01:55 PM	#107
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $104454	I wish we would have never drafted Derrick Thomas. He never could tackle very well. __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
Posts: 68,673

04-11-2008, 02:10 PM	#109
KCChiefsMan AIC Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Roxbury, MA Casino cash: $10004900	good God, I just watched a little bit of NFL Live and here comes Mel Kiper with his new mock. He now has us taking Branden Albert, passing up Ellis and gholston. That guy is a freaking moron. He also had Talib going #10, as much of a KU homer as I am, that's just stupid. Why do I even watch ESPN?
Posts: 11,478

04-11-2008, 03:18 PM	#111
suds79 MVP Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10005036	Furthermore, if there ever was a QB who compares similarly to John Elway, better hope we have the #1 to get him. Good luck with that.
Posts: 5,747

04-11-2008, 04:54 PM	#114
KCChiefsMan AIC Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Roxbury, MA Casino cash: $10004900	man I wish the draft would just hurry up!
Posts: 11,478

04-11-2008, 04:55 PM	#115
007 Shaken. Not stirred. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Casino cash: $12140126 VARSITY	Doesn't matter. Either way the Chiefs will make the wrong decision. __________________ My dear girl, there are some things that just aren’t done. Such as, drinking Dom Perignon ’53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s just as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs.
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