Chiefs I think all the 3-4 talk is hooey. - Page 8

Chris Meck · 03-06-2009, 12:04 PM

I really don't think we're going to a 3-4.

I think Vrabel's position here is a passing down rush end. At this point in his career, it's a smart way to use him.

We don't have a NT. We just don't. We didn't make a play for any of the guys in FA that fit that spot.

We don't really have 3-4 ends. If we were really going to do this, I think we'd have at least looked at Olshansky.

We would basically be wasting last year's #5 overall pick. Also a waste of Hali. So we waste 50% of our last 4 first round picks to switch to a defense we have basically NO personnel for.

We're short at least 1 starting OLB for a 3-4, and really would need another player that could take a lot of snaps as Vrabel is going to need a breather at this stage of his career. Didn't even look at Dansby.

I don't buy it. What's the upside? I don't see any.

I think people are grasping at straws.

General Malaise · 03-07-2009, 09:32 AM

What makes everyone here so sure Dorsey can't be a 3/4 Nose tackle. He is around 300lbs and at 6'1 he is bound to good at getting leverage. Let him put on 20 pounds and maybe you have a two gap nose tackle

milkman · 03-07-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Hali was good in coverage on zone blitzes. He has a good vertical, he has good initial burst, and most of the time he will be rushing the passer, not dropping back into coverage.

Most 3-4 defenses are played more like 5-2 defenses. Which is WHY I think drafting Curry is what will make this work.

With DJ and Curry, the Chiefs will have two very fast, very athletic linebackers that can cover sideline to sideline. The one difference is that Curry actually defeats blocks and tackles well. DJ will have to defeat fewer blocks in this scheme BECAUSE the defensive line isn't trying to rush upfield, just trying to tie up blockers.

The other part of the new scheme is that it will allow Pollard to drop down into the box more, again, a good fit for him.

I know that I am in the minority as far as Hali goes. I am cool with that. If I am right, then great. If I am wrong, I am going to catch it from EVERYONE.

Thems the breaks.

Time will tell.

milkman · 03-07-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Malaise

What makes everyone here so sure Dorsey can't be a 3/4 Nose tackle. He is around 300lbs and at 6'1 he is bound to good at getting leverage. Let him put on 20 pounds and maybe you have a two gap nose tackle

Dorsey strength is that he has the quickness to penetrate gaps and get into the backfield.

He was used as the nose in the cover two, which limited his effectiveness.

If you ask him to add 20 pounds (or more) then you are completely eliminating the things that made him a top 5 pick.

patteeu · 03-07-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

3 average years. The guy was a First Round draft pick and projected to be great. He has produced an average of 6 sacks and 43 tackles per season.

Yes, the defense sucks... But Tamba hasn't lived up to his hype.

I don't know about the "projected to be great" part. My memory is that when he was drafted he was described as a high motor type player that overachieved but had limited upside potential.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-07-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Dorsey strength is that he has the quickness to penetrate gaps and get into the backfield.

He was used as the nose in the cover two, which limited his effectiveness.

If you ask him to add 20 pounds (or more) then you are completely eliminating the things that made him a top 5 pick.

At LSU, he was asked to tie up blockers and he did. He will be asked to do the same thing now. His quick feet will help him keep position. He also sheds blocks well and will be able to make plays on the runner. I think he will be good at either NT or DE.

chiefzilla1501 · 03-07-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

At LSU, he was asked to tie up blockers and he did. He will be asked to do the same thing now. His quick feet will help him keep position. He also sheds blocks well and will be able to make plays on the runner. I think he will be good at either NT or DE.

Most people believe that was a huge misuse of his strengths and he certainly looked outmatched when he lined up in the nose in the NFL. Keep in mind that in college, he got a lot of push many times from driving blockers into the backfield--he can't do that on the pro level. Guards are so much bigger. And the other thing is that many question the strength of Dorsey in the legs. He's got tremendous upper-body strength, but the concerns about the health of his knees might have kept him from building the strength in his legs that would really help him gain that leverage.

Nose tackle is not a good use of his strengths. He is a typical 4-3 DT and he should be playing one-gap. At DE, he could actually do okay, as long as his height isn't a big problem. Unfortunately, it keeps him from exploding into the backfield, which is his strength, but hey... that's just a sacrifice we'll have to make.

Mr. Kotter · 03-07-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Hali was good in coverage on zone blitzes. He has a good vertical, he has good initial burst, and most of the time he will be rushing the passer, not dropping back into coverage.

Most 3-4 defenses are played more like 5-2 defenses. Which is WHY I think drafting Curry is what will make this work.

With DJ and Curry, the Chiefs will have two very fast, very athletic linebackers that can cover sideline to sideline. The one difference is that Curry actually defeats blocks and tackles well. DJ will have to defeat fewer blocks in this scheme BECAUSE the defensive line isn't trying to rush upfield, just trying to tie up blockers.

The other part of the new scheme is that it will allow Pollard to drop down into the box more, again, a good fit for him.

I know that I am in the minority as far as Hali goes. I am cool with that. If I am right, then great. If I am wrong, I am going to catch it from EVERYONE.

Thems the breaks.

I'm a bit in this camp as well.

Many times, as SCF points out, the 3-4 becomes a 5-2/5-3 (OLBs are playing on the Line with little or no pass coverage responsibility). When Pollard is playing in the box, that effectively gives us 3 LBs anyway.

The concern I have is that although our young corners are good, will they be effective in more man-to-man and press coverage. In addition to the NT and Rushbacker we seem to lack....we probably need a tough press corner too.

I could see us using the 3-4 some this year, particularly on first and second down. However, in clear passing situations....we'll be going with a traditional nickle or dime package more often than not. Thus, until we get those three positions filled with solid guys, I suspect at best....we'll be running a hybrid.

We are just too far away from being able to field a real 3-4 to be able to run it very successfully this year.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-07-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Most people believe that was a huge misuse of his strengths and he certainly looked outmatched when he lined up in the nose in the NFL. Keep in mind that in college, he got a lot of push many times from driving blockers into the backfield--he can't do that on the pro level. Guards are so much bigger. And the other thing is that many question the strength of Dorsey in the legs. He's got tremendous upper-body strength, but the concerns about the health of his knees might have kept him from building the strength in his legs that would really help him gain that leverage.

Nose tackle is not a good use of his strengths. He is a typical 4-3 DT and he should be playing one-gap. At DE, he could actually do okay, as long as his height isn't a big problem. Unfortunately, it keeps him from exploding into the backfield, which is his strength, but hey... that's just a sacrifice we'll have to make.

Last year, I think he did much better than people give him credit for. He will have a full year in the Chiefs weight program and that will help him add a few pounds and strengthen his legs.

His height at NT isn't a problem because it allows him to stay low and maintain leverage.

All in all, I think he will be a fine fit and play NT and End at different times this year. I think the Chiefs will keep him at NT full time if he can add 30 lbs.

If he can get above 325, at 6'1"... he should be fine.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-07-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I'm a bit in this camp as well.

Many times, as SCF points out, the 3-4 becomes a 5-2/5-3 (OLBs are playing on the Line with little or no pass coverage responsibility). When Pollard is playing in the box, that effectively gives us 3 LBs anyway.

The concern I have is that although our young corners are good, will they be effective in more man-to-man and press coverage. In addition to the NT and Rushbacker we seem to lack....we probably need a tough press corner too.

I could see us using the 3-4 some this year, particularly on first and second down. However, in clear passing situations....we'll be going with a traditional nickle or dime package more often than not. Thus, until we get those three positions filled with solid guys, I suspect at best....we'll be running a hybrid.

We are just too far away from being able to field a real 3-4 to be able to run it very successfully this year.

In pure passing situations, I think the 3-4 is more important because the Chiefs don't have enough good rushing traditional DE's.

I think they will bring the safety and ILB blitz a good bit this year. I don't really want Crennel, because I think his 3-4 is a bit too passive for my taste. But, then again, what do I know?

keg in kc · 03-07-2009, 01:47 PM

Rumor is Dorsey played close to 325 last year and that it cost him most of his explosion. Because that's too heavy for him.

And no, I don't think he had a bad year, either.

Mr. Kotter · 03-07-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Rumor is Dorsey played close to 325 last year and that it cost him most of his explosion. Because that's too heavy for him.

And no, I don't think he had a bad year, either.

Then I say, have him cut 10-15 pounds, put him at DE and find a REAL damn NT somewhere. I honestly think he could be a beast at DE in a 3-4.

JohnnyV13 · 03-07-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

I want Pioli to cut all these ****ing wastes of space just to shut the reeruns on this board up.

WHY AM I SO ANGRY?

Because you haven't decided whom you want to take your virginity.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-07-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Rumor is Dorsey played close to 325 last year and that it cost him most of his explosion. Because that's too heavy for him.

And no, I don't think he had a bad year, either.

I thought he played around 305... but I have no 'inside' information to base that on.

For a rookie, he held his own very well playing NT. And, if he can do that as a rookie, I don't see a problem with him playing NT in the 3-4 as he gets more experience and adds more weight.

It will be fun to see how the Chiefs use the players they already have in the new defense.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-07-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Then I say, have him cut 10-15 pounds, put him at DE and find a REAL damn NT somewhere. I honestly think he could be a beast at DE in a 3-4.

I think Dorsey could be good at NT or DE in the 3-4, and I think he will play inside and outside at times.

KcFanInGA · 03-07-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

Yeah, our defense was money last year in the 4-3. Why change it?

I really hope this is a joke.

03-06-2009, 12:04 PM
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $-1435090	I think all the 3-4 talk is hooey. I really don't think we're going to a 3-4. I think Vrabel's position here is a passing down rush end. At this point in his career, it's a smart way to use him. We don't have a NT. We just don't. We didn't make a play for any of the guys in FA that fit that spot. We don't really have 3-4 ends. If we were really going to do this, I think we'd have at least looked at Olshansky. We would basically be wasting last year's #5 overall pick. Also a waste of Hali. So we waste 50% of our last 4 first round picks to switch to a defense we have basically NO personnel for. We're short at least 1 starting OLB for a 3-4, and really would need another player that could take a lot of snaps as Vrabel is going to need a breather at this stage of his career. Didn't even look at Dansby. I don't buy it. What's the upside? I don't see any. I think people are grasping at straws.
Posts: 19,477

03-07-2009, 09:32 AM	#106
General Malaise Rookie Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	What makes everyone here so sure Dorsey can't be a 3/4 Nose tackle. He is around 300lbs and at 6'1 he is bound to good at getting leverage. Let him put on 20 pounds and maybe you have a two gap nose tackle
Posts: 2

03-07-2009, 01:47 PM	#115
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Rumor is Dorsey played close to 325 last year and that it cost him most of his explosion. Because that's too heavy for him. And no, I don't think he had a bad year, either.
Posts: 58,682