Clark Judge: Rating smartest, boldest, scariest offseason moves

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I hear what you're saying, man. I do. And you're right that most of the discussions around draft time degenerated into pissing contests.

To a certain extent,some of that is predicated on the fact that we discussed the shit out of every small detail to the point of exhaustion. People become unnecessarily entrenched in their positions, and thus the insults could fly because, well, there was little else left to do.

I firmly believe--(read: know for a fact) that all of the posters you've mentioned--Dane, Mecca, etc.--are good dudes and willing to engage in high-level argumentation, the kind of stuff that makes this board fun. And they'll be respectful of your disagreement.

But I'm sure we'll disagree on the following, which I do believe is the root problem: Some of the n00bs have changed the overall tenor of this place. And some very strong posters, such as yourself, have accidentally been lumped with those with whom you don't belong. The resulting tension between n00b and vet has been such that knee-jerk reactions have been the norm.

I fully agree with this. That's why I mentioned the part about Mecca starting threads about subjects that had been discussed to death and resulted in arguments every time. He repeatedly started those threads for controversy, taking backhanded shots at anyone who didn't share his views in the process, and then acted surprised if anyone took a shot at him. Seriously, now he is some sort of victim? I can't believe smart posters don't see this. I realize many people agreed with his player takes, which is fine, but I don't know how anyone could defend his posting style.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

IMHO, the draft board needed some moderator crackdown this past season. Everyone was guilty of name calling, etc. It should be a place for open discussion of prospects and not just "he sucks, and you are stupid. Go walk into a burning aids tree."

Go outside in the fall, set up a telescope, and observe a burning AidsMeteor shower.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

IMHO, the draft board needed some moderator crackdown this past season. Everyone was guilty of name calling, etc. It should be a place for open discussion of prospects and not just "he sucks, and you are stupid. Go walk into a burning aids tree."

WTF?

Show me ONE TIME that someone on ANY forum here was banned due to name calling.

Christ, this place is so loosely moderated that people get away with ethnic slurs and racial remarks.

You want moderation, head over to WPI where they ban you for having a differing opinion.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

WTF?

Show me ONE TIME that someone on ANY forum here was banned due to name calling.

Christ, this place is so loosely moderated that people get away with ethnic slurs and racial remarks.

You want moderation, head over to WPI where they ban you for having a differing opinion.

Don't get so defensive. I just gave my opinion. Draft threads quickly degenerated into name calling where there was often very little, if any, actual discussion of relevant points.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Forget the value for a second.

You either think he's capable of leading a team to a Super Bowl, or you don't. There's no in-between, it's a simple yes or no question.

If you think he IS capable, then there's no reason you wouldn't have traded the 3rd overall pick for him. A true franchise QB is INVALUABLE.

So it sounds like many of you think he's incapable, but it's OK because we only spent a 2nd round pick.

That pretty much cover it?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Forget the value for a second.

You either think he's capable of leading a team to a Super Bowl, or you don't. There's no in-between, it's a simple yes or no question.

If you think he IS capable, then there's no reason you wouldn't have traded the 3rd overall pick for him. A true franchise QB is INVALUABLE.

So it sounds like many of you think he's incapable, but it's OK because we only spent a 2nd round pick.

That pretty much cover it?

Not at all. That's so incredibly inflexible it's LAUGHABLE.

He MIGHT be capable. Therefore it's WORTH the risk of the #34 pick, but NOT worth the risk of the #3 overall pick.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by THISmaqe

Not at all. That's so incredibly inflexible it's LAUGHABLE.

He MIGHT be capable. Therefore it's WORTH the risk of the #34 pick, but NOT worth the risk of the #3 overall pick.

What's laughable is trading for someone because he MIGHT be worth the risk.

Why trade for anyone you're not convinced about?

I'd rather see a baseball player take 3 good cuts and strike out, instead of standing at the plate with the bat on his shoulder because the pitcher MIGHT walk him.

You either have 100% confidence in the guy, or you don't waste a 2nd round pick on him, IMO.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Why trade for anyone you're not convinced about?

Because they're ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that the only other guy they have on the roster isn't good enough.

It's really very simple.

Brodie Croyle can't stay healthy.

Tyler Thigpen can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Damon Huard can't stay off his back.

Matthew Stafford was out of reach.

They obviously evaluated Sanchez and didn't want him.

So now they're back to Tyler Thigpen.

They traded a 2nd-round pick for a guy that they obviously believe CAN be a franchise QB, and they're out NOTHING if he isn't.

The world isn't black and white, sorry.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

The "reerun" stuff also has much to do with some of the criticism heaped on Mecca. Here we might start to see somewhat of a generational gap on the board b/c, for people who are Mecca's age, calling even one's closest friends ridiculous names is not uncommon. The connotation of the "insult" is different.

I've only been here a little over three years, but has there ever been as much discussion about name calling as there has been on this board over the last 3-4 months?

Shut up you stupid puke! (It's not too early is it?

Originally Posted by milkman

That's the thing, right there.

Even though you and I disagreed strongly in a number of discussions, we were able to have civilized debates.

But, yes, there were some who simply resorted to namecalling simply because I disagreed with them, or agreed with mecca or Hamas.

I saw people take shots at milkman before. It confused the HELL out of me. Normally milkman is willing to discuss anything. Even when there were some people still defending Herm (WTF?) He will still engage them civily. He would associate certain inappropriate words associated with Herm, but they wouldn't be pointed at the poster.

Originally Posted by milkman

Do I have a reading comprehension issue?

Every time I see shorts like that, all I read is "Look at my ass".

Nope, that's what I see. You're good.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I saw people take shots at milkman before. It confused the HELL out of me. Normally milkman is willing to discuss anything. Even when there were some people still defending Herm (WTF?) He will still engage them civily. He would associate certain inappropriate words associated with Herm, but they wouldn't be pointed at the poster.

In appropriate words?

You mean like competent and capable?

I know for a fact I never used those kind of inappropriate words when discussing Herman ****ing Edwards.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by milkman

In appropriate words?

You mean like competent and capable?

I know for a fact I never used those kind of inappropriate words when discussing Herman ****ing Edwards.

You're right. Poor choice of words. very PROFANE words associated with Herm.

Competent and Capable

[Smed1065]

But it takes one to see one or know it?

[Mecca]

If I think you're point is dumb I'll tell you I think your point is dumb, I 99% of the time will go out of my way to talk about what you said as opposed to you personally. Now if you start with me that changes...

Am I a bit arrogant and abrasive, yea I admit that, it's just part of my general personality.

And during the offseason we talk about the same things over and over because really what else is there to do?

The only thing I honestly find aggravating is when a person who took 5 minutes out of their year to watch college football thinks their opinion should hold as much weight as mine during draft season.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Mecca

If I think you're point is dumb I'll tell you I think your point is dumb, I 99% of the time will go out of my way to talk about what you said as opposed to you personally. Now if you start with me that changes...

Am I a bit arrogant and abrasive, yea I admit that, it's just part of my general personality.

You've never made any bones about it, and why should you? For most people, it isn't a big deal. For some it is.

But for guys like milk to act like it's surprising is, well, surprising. When you tell somebody what they said is dumb, 9 times out of 10 they're going to respond as if they were attacked.

Originally Posted by Mecca

The only thing I honestly find aggravating is when a person who took 5 minutes out of their year to watch college football thinks their opinion should hold as much weight as mine during draft season.

How do you know that person took 5 minutes to watch? Nobody here admits "hey, I like such and such, but I never watched him play". The only way you could make such an assertion is to ASSUME that they only watched 5 minutes of college football. And to make that assumption, you'd have to had already judged that their take wasn't as good as yours. That's INHERENTLY condescending. I'm not saying necessarily that there's anything wrong with it, but it's easy to see why people react the way they do.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by THISmaqe

You've never made any bones about it, and why should you? For most people, it isn't a big deal. For some it is.

But for guys like milk to act like it's surprising is, well, surprising. When you tell somebody what they said is dumb, 9 times out of 10 they're going to respond as if they were attacked.



How do you know that person took 5 minutes to watch? Nobody here admits "hey, I like such and such, but I never watched him play". The only way you could make such an assertion is to ASSUME that they only watched 5 minutes of college football. And to make that assumption, you'd have to had already judged that their take wasn't as good as yours. That's INHERENTLY condescending. I'm not saying necessarily that there's anything wrong with it, but it's easy to see why people react the way they do.

Hootie is a good example, he flat admitted he doesn't watch college football then spent the entire draft weekend telling everyone they were stupid, Pioli, yadda yadda.