Chiefs Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation - Page 8

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-14-2009, 11:24 AM

Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from.

One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team."

Let me make this clear: I do not disagree.

However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse.

And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple:

The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation.

I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought.

Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization.

And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors.

Two. Out of forty-five.

That's a whopping 4% success rate.

I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players.

Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's.

Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's.

And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC.

With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players.

Let the excuses flow like fine wine.

Discus.

This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.

beach tribe · 12-15-2009, 08:13 AM

I'm joining htismaqe.
This place is nothing but a hate farm.

Chiefnj2 · 12-15-2009, 08:21 AM

Pioli didn't know what he had or didn't have on the roster and who could play and not play the schemes he and Haley were installing.

He used this past year to pretty much see how many of the existing players they could keep. He probably reasoned why spend big money on free agents when someone on the roster can do the job. I'd imagine Clark felt that way too.

**jjchieffan** · 12-15-2009, 08:35 AM

I was young, so I have a hard time remembering exactly, but I believe that the hated CP did a much better job of turning this franchise around from year one. I know that Marty came in and won immediately, so why couldn't Scott and Todd? I must say that I am very disappointed in the progress so far. Not as disappointed as my Dad, who has wanted Haley fired since game 3, but nonetheless, I believe that we should expect more than what we got from this team this year.

burt · 12-15-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I'm joining htismaqe.
This place is nothing but a hate farm.

see: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...29#post6345429

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-15-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Pioli didn't know what he had or didn't have on the roster and who could play and not play the schemes he and Haley were installing.

He used this past year to pretty much see how many of the existing players they could keep. He probably reasoned why spend big money on free agents when someone on the roster can do the job. I'd imagine Clark felt that way too.

So again, that precludes him from acquiring talented players?

Chiefnj2 · 12-15-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

So again, that precludes him from acquiring talented players?

It might. They spent big money on Dorsey. Don't you think the owner wanted to try him out in the new system rather than immediately bringing in someone else? In some cases (Hali and Dorsey) it may have worked, in others (McBride, Tyler) it didn't.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-15-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

It might. They spent big money on Dorsey. Don't you think the owner wanted to try him out in the new system rather than immediately bringing in someone else? In some cases (Hali and Dorsey) it may have worked, in others (McBride, Tyler) it didn't.

Who were we going to "try out" on the OL?

At WR?

And this isn't an excuse for getting one impact player - a ****ing kicker - in the draft.

**notorious** · 12-15-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphius

Maybe you could explain how he was going to replace a full scouting staff before a draft, since most scouts contracts don't run out until after the draft. So he couldn't go out and hire people from other teams, and you can't hire people off the street because how many people off the street spend the year flying around to all the different teams and watching tape on players.

I can't explain it or say if it's true or not. It just blows my mind.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-15-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Pioli didn't hire Ray Farmer he was already here and kept his same position. Just want to clarify that.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought he was hired in 2009.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-15-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

I find it hard to believe that a new GM would hinge the beginning of his career on a bunch of talent scouts that were on a team full of failure.

If he did, then it speaks volumes on Pioli's decision making ability.

No, it is standard practice for almost any organization. You can't afford to fire all your scouts and Personnel guys right in the heart of draft season. Everybody knew that Kuharich, Chuck Cook, and the entire scouting organization was pretty much conducting their last draft ever for the Chiefs. And to nobody's surprise, almost all of them were fired very soon after the draft.

We'll see. I really like the drafts Phil Emery put together in Atlanta and I'd at least like to see what he's capable of. This upcoming draft is going to be a shitload more reflective of what we can expect the next 5 years rather than 2009.

Mojo Jojo · 12-15-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

I find it hard to believe that a new GM would hinge the beginning of his career on a bunch of talent scouts that were on a team full of failure.

If he did, then it speaks volumes on Pioli's decision making ability.

If you knew much about the business of football...which your post proves you don't...NFL scouts and most other player personnel contracts run from draft to draft usually an April 30/ May 1 date.

Mojo Jojo · 12-15-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Pioli didn't know what he had or didn't have on the roster and who could play and not play the schemes he and Haley were installing.

He used this past year to pretty much see how many of the existing players they could keep. He probably reasoned why spend big money on free agents when someone on the roster can do the job. I'd imagine Clark felt that way too.

If Pioli was what they say he is...he knew what he had. If he didn't then he had three months at One Arrowhead Drive to figure it out prior to the draft and during free agency.

Pioli's sole job at the Pats was to evaluate talent. He knew who the free agents were going to be...he knew who was in the draft long before he came to KC. Did he just get stupid? He changed over half the roster and continues to make changes. Best bet he is in way over his head.

Hammock Parties · 12-15-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo

He knew who was in the draft long before he came to KC. Did he just get stupid? He changed over half the roster and continues to make changes. Best bet he is in way over his head.

Occam's razor.

And there was proof of his inept talent evaluation AT NEW ENGLAND, too.

Pioli Zombie · 12-15-2009, 08:26 PM

Nobody is as disappointed as Chris Berman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hid-n...eature=related

chiefzilla1501 · 12-15-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo

If Pioli was what they say he is...he knew what he had. If he didn't then he had three months at One Arrowhead Drive to figure it out prior to the draft and during free agency.

Pioli's sole job at the Pats was to evaluate talent. He knew who the free agents were going to be...he knew who was in the draft long before he came to KC. Did he just get stupid? He changed over half the roster and continues to make changes. Best bet he is in way over his head.

Yeah, but people here act like when Pioli came into Kansas City, he was 100% devoted to the draft. They forget that he's also the Head of Operations walking into a new team that he knows close to nothing about. Not just w/Chiefs players, but also the operational and coaching staff. You also have to be the face of the organization and do a lot of administrative bullshit. You also have to talk to a lot of people, figure out who's in who's out, build a culture that fits what you want to do, develop a strategy, and then get everyone to buy in and act on your strategic vision. Difficult to bring in players if you're not sure what your 5-year vision for the team is.

I've done a lot of work in change management from organizations changing radically different cultures. It is difficult, difficult stuff. And most of that difficulty comes from old employees who refuse to buy in to what you're selling. Especially true when your former boss worked there for 20+ years.

Most of that change is probably over. Like I said, in 2010 there is no excuse. And you can't give a free pass for 2009. I just think it's a really, really tough expectation to expect a GM to turn around a 20-year culture in just a few months.

12-14-2009, 11:24 AM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2031115	Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from. One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team." Let me make this clear: I do not disagree. However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse. And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple: The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation. I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought. Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization. And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors. Two. Out of forty-five. That's a whopping 4% success rate. I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players. Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's. Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's. And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC. With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players. Let the excuses flow like fine wine. Discus. This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.
Posts: 60,758

12-15-2009, 08:13 AM	#106
beach tribe Keep doubting J MFing Houston Join Date: May 2007 Location: ft.lauderdale Casino cash: $3878036	I'm joining htismaqe. This place is nothing but a hate farm.
Posts: 21,429

12-15-2009, 08:21 AM	#107
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	Pioli didn't know what he had or didn't have on the roster and who could play and not play the schemes he and Haley were installing. He used this past year to pretty much see how many of the existing players they could keep. He probably reasoned why spend big money on free agents when someone on the roster can do the job. I'd imagine Clark felt that way too. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541

12-15-2009, 08:35 AM	#108
jjchieffan Supporter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Highlandville, MO Casino cash: $-167752	I was young, so I have a hard time remembering exactly, but I believe that the hated CP did a much better job of turning this franchise around from year one. I know that Marty came in and won immediately, so why couldn't Scott and Todd? I must say that I am very disappointed in the progress so far. Not as disappointed as my Dad, who has wanted Haley fired since game 3, but nonetheless, I believe that we should expect more than what we got from this team this year. __________________ Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth. Following the historical accounts and the genealogy from that point on, the age of the Earth is approximately 6000-7000 years old. The Big Bullshit Theory is a lie. It and the evolution theory go against real science. Satan has used our public school system to brainwash everyone into believing these lies. Be not decieved.
Posts: 13,355

12-15-2009, 08:26 PM	#119
Pioli Zombie Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: olathe,kansas Casino cash: $10004900	Nobody is as disappointed as Chris Berman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hid-n...eature=related
Posts: 11,077