Chiefs Overall Evaluation of our 2009 Draft picks. - Page 9

chiefsfan1963 · 08-31-2009, 10:29 PM

Jackson seems to be the real deal. How about the rest of our picks?

I would love to hear what our insightful posters takes are.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mecca · 09-02-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildTurkey

How many Recent Super Bowl champs have had O-lines where they had two first round picks at the tackle spots... now ask yourself how many of those recent SB champs had outstanding Defenses....

Well most superbowl champs have 1st round QB's too...so there's always that.

TFG · 09-02-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The latter. And they would be right.

LOL

So, there is some sort of "ceiling" on what the Chiefs can or cannot spend on an "ORT?"

If Orlando Pace from Ohio State was there at #3, you would pass on him because he'd be an "ORT."

If you have Tony Boselli, you cannot spend top dollar on FA ORT Leon Searcy, right?

If you have Mark May and Joe Jacoby, you sure as heck would not trade Jay Schroeder to Oakland for Jim Lachey... because that would make Joe Jacoby an ORT and May an ORG... nevermind the ring they got that year from demolishing the Bills in the Super Bowl...

WildTurkey · 09-02-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Well most superbowl champs have 1st round QB's too...so there's always that.

lol that is true, I was on the Stafford/Sanchez bandwagon, but I am willing to give Cassel a shot, not that it matters...... so your telling me you would take a John Tait or a Robert Gallery over say a Richard Seymour on your defense

milkman · 09-02-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFG

LOL

So, there is some sort of "ceiling" on what the Chiefs can or cannot spend on an "ORT?"

If Orlando Pace from Ohio State was there at #3, you would pass on him because he'd be an "ORT."

If you have Tony Boselli, you cannot spend top dollar on FA ORT Leon Searcy, right?

If you have Mark May and Joe Jacoby, you sure as heck would not trade Jay Schroeder to Oakland for Jim Lachey... because that would make Joe Jacoby an ORT and May an ORG... nevermind the ring they got that year from demolishing the Bills in the Super Bowl...

Using an 80s O-Line as an example has no bearing on the economics of today's free agent, salary cap NFL.

Mecca · 09-02-2009, 08:17 PM

You have to realize how much money you can account to each position in the cap era, if you have 2 first round OT's odds are you are overpaying for the position and you will lose one because as soon as that RT's contract is up..especially if he was taken top 5 he'll leave cause another team will offer him more than you can pay.

WildTurkey · 09-02-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFG

LOL

So, there is some sort of "ceiling" on what the Chiefs can or cannot spend on an "ORT?"

If Orlando Pace from Ohio State was there at #3, you would pass on him because he'd be an "ORT."

If you have Tony Boselli, you cannot spend top dollar on FA ORT Leon Searcy, right?

If you have Mark May and Joe Jacoby, you sure as heck would not trade Jay Schroeder to Oakland for Jim Lachey... because that would make Joe Jacoby an ORT and May an ORG... nevermind the ring they got that year from demolishing the Bills in the Super Bowl...

Mark May and Tony Boselli are available from what I hear, lets bring em in and give em a shot

**DeezNutz** · 09-02-2009, 08:18 PM

If Steve Hutchinson is available, you take him.

Mecca · 09-02-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildTurkey

lol that is true, I was on the Stafford/Sanchez bandwagon, but I am willing to give Cassel a shot, not that it matters...... so your telling me you would take a John Tait or a Robert Gallery over say a Richard Seymour on your defense

You're picking guys who didn't pan out though so it's not a true example...if you are going to use Seymour as the example you should give like Walter Jones as the other example.

**DeezNutz** · 09-02-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

You're picking guys who didn't pan out though so it's not a true example...if you are going to use Seymour as the example you should give like Walter Jones as the other example.

So you'd rather have Ryan Leaf, that's what you're saying?

TFG · 09-02-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildTurkey

How many Recent Super Bowl champs have had O-lines where they had two first round picks at the tackle spots... now ask yourself how many of those recent SB champs had outstanding Defenses....

Specifically two FIRSTS recently - very few. I would include very expensive FAs too. That list of Super Bowl participants includes

Steelers - Wayne Gandy and Marvel Smith were both Firsts
Rams - Pace was a First, Miller then left for huge bucks in FA
Eagles - Thomas First, Runyan expensive FA
Bucs - Roman Oben 3rd round OLT, Kenyatta Walker FIRST ROUND ORT
Panthers - Jordan Gross FIRST ROUND ORT at the time Todd Steussie FIRST ROUND OLT FA
Titans - Brad Hopkins First Round Jon Runyan 4th round STUD
Raiders - Kennedy FIRST Stinchcomb FIRST

WildTurkey · 09-02-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

You're picking guys who didn't pan out though so it's not a true example...if you are going to use Seymour as the example you should give like Walter Jones as the other example.

yeah but when your drafting you don't know if the player is going to be any good, you don't just take a tackle to take a tackle, the Raiders thought Gallery was a sure thing, look how that panned out, people were down on the Seymour pick and he turned out to be a stud and cornerstone of that defense

WildTurkey · 09-02-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFG

Specifically two FIRSTS recently - very few. I would include very expensive FAs too. That list of Super Bowl participants includes

Steelers - Wayne Gandy and Marvel Smith were both Firsts
Rams - Pace was a First, Miller then left for huge bucks in FA
Eagles - Thomas First, Runyan expensive FA
Bucs - Roman Oben 3rd round OLT, Kenyatta Walker FIRST ROUND ORT
Panthers - Jordan Gross FIRST ROUND ORT at the time Todd Steussie FIRST ROUND OLT FA
Titans - Brad Hopkins First Round Jon Runyan 4th round STUD
Raiders - Kennedy FIRST Stinchcomb FIRST

only a few of those teams actually won, and going into last season the O-line was not the strength of the Steelers, and a few of them got beat by a Belicheck/Pioli built O-line, which was not made up of high picks or expensive FA's

Mecca · 09-02-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildTurkey

yeah but when your drafting you don't know if the player is going to be any good, you don't just take a tackle to take a tackle, the Raiders thought Gallery was a sure thing, look how that panned out, people were down on the Seymour pick and he turned out to be a stud and cornerstone of that defense

This works both ways...if you give a good player and a bad player people always pick the good one.

What if you use Wendell Bryant as the defensive example then it changes.

TFG · 09-02-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildTurkey

lol that is true, I was on the Stafford/Sanchez bandwagon, but I am willing to give Cassel a shot, not that it matters...... so your telling me you would take a John Tait or a Robert Gallery over say a Richard Seymour on your defense

Don't get me started. I panned Gallery - Vernon Carey was my top OT prospect that year... ORT specifically.

First of all, your comp is a loaded sack of ####. Tait was a good player. Gallery was a BUST. I could cite Kenneth Sims, for example.

Seymour was a much better prospect than T-Jax.
Monroe is a much better prospect than Tait.

If you want to equal it out, and say Seymour vs. Orlando Pace, sure, that's a question I'll answer.

If you have one but not two OTs of high caliber, you pick PACE. If you have two, you pick Seymour.

chiefzilla1501 · 09-02-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFG

Specifically two FIRSTS recently - very few. I would include very expensive FAs too. That list of Super Bowl participants includes

Steelers - Wayne Gandy and Marvel Smith were both Firsts
Rams - Pace was a First, Miller then left for huge bucks in FA
Eagles - Thomas First, Runyan expensive FA
Bucs - Roman Oben 3rd round OLT, Kenyatta Walker FIRST ROUND ORT
Panthers - Jordan Gross FIRST ROUND ORT at the time Todd Steussie FIRST ROUND OLT FA
Titans - Brad Hopkins First Round Jon Runyan 4th round STUD
Raiders - Kennedy FIRST Stinchcomb FIRST

Your argument is all over the freaking place.

First of all, Pace and Gross were drafted to play right tackle only until they made the eventual transition to Left Tackle. That's clearly not the case with the Chiefs.

Second of all, we're talking top 5, even top 10 picks.

Finally, throwing a 4th round RT is completely contrary to the argument.

08-31-2009, 10:29 PM
chiefsfan1963 Veteran Join Date: Oct 2001 Casino cash: $10005060	Overall Evaluation of our 2009 Draft picks. Jackson seems to be the real deal. How about the rest of our picks? I would love to hear what our insightful posters takes are. Posted via Mobile Device
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09-02-2009, 08:17 PM	#125
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2237050	You have to realize how much money you can account to each position in the cap era, if you have 2 first round OT's odds are you are overpaying for the position and you will lose one because as soon as that RT's contract is up..especially if he was taken top 5 he'll leave cause another team will offer him more than you can pay.
Posts: 111,161