Chiefs Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation - Page 9

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-14-2009, 11:24 AM

Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from.

One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team."

Let me make this clear: I do not disagree.

However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse.

And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple:

The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation.

I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought.

Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization.

And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors.

Two. Out of forty-five.

That's a whopping 4% success rate.

I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players.

Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's.

Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's.

And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC.

With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players.

Let the excuses flow like fine wine.

Discus.

This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.

aturnis · 12-15-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I agree, Keg, and good post.

However, just because we all knew this was a multiple year proposition does not make it acceptable to completely waste one of those years.

We are literally no better off than we were this time last year.

You could argue that the team is worse.

So basically, we're starting over, yet again.

Alright Warpath,

I have to tell you to give it a rest. I do believe that EVERYONE knew that the approach for this season was to really sit back and evaluate. They inherited a team that was bad. Everyone knew that

We knew they wouldn't be active in free agency, and they weren't. Not until they got to OTA's and training camp and had a chance to evaluate players with their own eyes. Tape can say one thing, but who's to say the player isn't failing b/c he's doing exactly as he's told. You are better off seeing how they fair in your drills. By the time they realized who was out, the pickin's were slip. The guys they brought in, at least in my eyes, weren't "their guys", they were what was left, but they were still an unknown potential compared to the know crap we had.

Cosmos · 12-15-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Alright Warpath,

I have to tell you to give it a rest. I do believe that EVERYONE knew that the approach for this season was to really sit back and evaluate. They inherited a team that was bad. Everyone knew that

We knew they wouldn't be active in free agency, and they weren't. Not until they got to OTA's and training camp and had a chance to evaluate players with their own eyes. Tape can say one thing, but who's to say the player isn't failing b/c he's doing exactly as he's told. You are better off seeing how they fair in your drills. By the time they realized who was out, the pickin's were slip. The guys they brought in, at least in my eyes, weren't "their guys", they were what was left, but they were still an unknown potential compared to the know crap we had.

With Todd Haley as coach, recent culture of loosing, Clark Hunt on the budget and the uncapped rules.... It will be a bleak offseason in KC.

The only way this team is going to get better is:

Coach the players you have better.
Draft like a genious.
Continue to bring in other teams 54th best player.

**DeezNutz** · 12-15-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Alright Warpath,

I have to tell you to give it a rest. I do believe that EVERYONE knew that the approach for this season was to really sit back and evaluate. They inherited a team that was bad. Everyone knew that

We knew they wouldn't be active in free agency, and they weren't. Not until they got to OTA's and training camp and had a chance to evaluate players with their own eyes. Tape can say one thing, but who's to say the player isn't failing b/c he's doing exactly as he's told. You are better off seeing how they fair in your drills. By the time they realized who was out, the pickin's were slip. The guys they brought in, at least in my eyes, weren't "their guys", they were what was left, but they were still an unknown potential compared to the know crap we had.

I don't agree with what's in bold, at all. In fact, if it's true, everyone who is in charge at 1 Arrowhead should be fired immediately.

The goal is always to make progress toward a championship. Period. Not to sit back and evaluate.

You evaluate and then make the necessary moves to get better, and Pioli had sufficient time to do this before a single meaningful snap happened. Arguing otherwise is revisionist history.

As fans, we have to face the distinct possibility that Pioli is dumb as ****. So far, the evidence says he *might* be.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping like hell that he puts together an off-season this coming year that presents an equally convincing counter-argument.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-15-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

There are a few reasons I would give Pioli some more time:

2) Pioli wasn't able to get his own personnel department and scouts set until after the draft, when contracts expired and new hires were available.

BULLSHIT excuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

3) Rookies usually can't be fully evaluated their first year. Some rooks look great and just fade after a few years, others bust out in the 2nd or 3rd year. I'm not going to sit here and say we had a great draft by any means, but I think you need to let the class mature a bit more before writing it off.

BULLSHIT excuse. Are you telling me that we can't adequately judge Michael Oher, Percy Harvin, Knowshon Moreno, Michael Crabtree or Vontae Davis?

Tyson Jackson is just a GUY. He hasn't "flashed". Magee? Same thing. Washington? A Joke. O'Connell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

4) This is not new to Pioli, in New England they did a very similar thing in 2000, taking an 8-8 football team, getting rid of a bunch of guys and signing a bunch of scrubs, and going 5-11, and starting the next year off 1-3 before going on their run.

More nonsense.

This isn't New England. There is no TOM BRADY on the roster. Todd Haley isn't Bill Belichick.

If Scott Pioli came to town thinking he could just follow the Patriots blueprint, without any improvisation or changes, he's a bigger ****ing idiot than I previously thought. I don't hold him in high regard, whatsoever at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

I agree that right now a lot of the moves look bad and we're not much better off than we were to start with. And if we don't have a significant talent influx this offseason, then something is amiss and you can go to the top there, because he's now had enough time not only to get his front office pieces in place, but he's had the time to get a firsthand look at the roster he has and who fits in and who doesn't.

I knew what was wrong with this team. In MY mock draft, I had Sanchez, Unger, Urbick, Louis Murphy, Louis Vasquez and more. How come I knew what the Chiefs needed but the Executive Of the Millennium didn't?

Oh, and there were several others around here that had pretty damn good mock drafts that seem to know more about the Chiefs than ****ing Scott Pioli.

You're making too many excuses for a job that to date, has been poorly executed from top to bottom.

Hammock Parties · 12-15-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

As fans, we have to face the distinct possibility that Pioli is dumb as ****.

New sig.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-15-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Alright Warpath,

I have to tell you to give it a rest. I do believe that EVERYONE knew that the approach for this season was to really sit back and evaluate. They inherited a team that was bad. Everyone knew that

More bullshit.

Pioli turned over 65% of the roster.

If you think that HE expected the Chiefs to win less than 4 games this season, you're delusional.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-15-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Alright Warpath,

I have to tell you to give it a rest. I do believe that EVERYONE knew that the approach for this season was to really sit back and evaluate. They inherited a team that was bad. Everyone knew that

We knew they wouldn't be active in free agency, and they weren't. Not until they got to OTA's and training camp and had a chance to evaluate players with their own eyes. Tape can say one thing, but who's to say the player isn't failing b/c he's doing exactly as he's told. You are better off seeing how they fair in your drills. By the time they realized who was out, the pickin's were slip. The guys they brought in, at least in my eyes, weren't "their guys", they were what was left, but they were still an unknown potential compared to the know crap we had.

Looks like everything that I would have said in response to this post has already been said.

**DeezNutz** · 12-15-2009, 11:16 PM

People want to fight the obvious, and it's a completely understandable reaction. It sucks to know that this team is no where close to being competitive.

Much easier to make excuses and hope and wish that Pioli is really going to start trying this off-season. Because about the only thing worse than realizing that this team will suck ass for another year or two is the thought that maybe the guy in charge isn't capable of fixing it.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-15-2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I'm joining htismaqe.
This place is nothing but a hate farm.

He'll be missed.

You...

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-15-2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I'm joining htismaqe.
This place is nothing but a hate farm.

Cry me a river.

JFC.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-15-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Cry me a river.

JFC.

Someone should give him a list of people to take with him.

bigbucks24 · 12-15-2009, 11:30 PM

If Pioli had no chance of drafting capably because he didn't have "his" guys in place, the same should be said of EVERY new GM? Why do some new GM's draft ok the first year? Luck? Madan Cloe? Why do some teams do well the first year under a new GM? Some actually improve. Magic 8 ball?

And what was more important to Pioli when he got here than the draft? Couldn't he do the administrative stuff later? Change the office around and fire the security guard after the draft? I would have though that he would have spent a LOT of time on the draft when he first got here. Yeah, hire a coach, but leave the rest of the stuff till later. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. I do know that everytime I've been asked to take over a business, I'm expected to make progress quickly. Gone are the days of getting worse before it gets better.

**DeezNutz** · 12-15-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbucks24

If Pioli had no chance of drafting capably because he didn't have "his" guys in place, the same should be said of EVERY new GM? Why do some new GM's draft ok the first year? Luck? Madan Cloe? Why do some teams do well the first year under a new GM? Some actually improve. Magic 8 ball?

And what was more important to Pioli when he got here than the draft? Couldn't he do the administrative stuff later? Change the office around and fire the security guard after the draft? I would have though that he would have spent a LOT of time on the draft when he first got here. Yeah, hire a coach, but leave the rest of the stuff till later. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. I do know that everytime I've been asked to take over a business, I'm expected to make progress quickly. Gone are the days of getting worse before it gets better.

It's a process. Trust it.

bigbucks24 · 12-15-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

It's a process. Trust it.

Im going to try that next time my boss asks why we aren't getting results. I'll let you know how that goes. Just in case, got any job openings where you work?

**DeezNutz** · 12-15-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbucks24

Im going to try that next time my boss asks why we aren't getting results. I'll let you know how that goes. Just in case, got any job openings where you work?

Sorry. You sound like you like results.

My work is about the right 234, not the best 234.

12-14-2009, 11:24 AM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2031115	Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from. One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team." Let me make this clear: I do not disagree. However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse. And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple: The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation. I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought. Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization. And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors. Two. Out of forty-five. That's a whopping 4% success rate. I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players. Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's. Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's. And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC. With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players. Let the excuses flow like fine wine. Discus. This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.
Posts: 60,758

12-15-2009, 11:30 PM	#132
bigbucks24 Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Las Vegas, NV Casino cash: $9688694	If Pioli had no chance of drafting capably because he didn't have "his" guys in place, the same should be said of EVERY new GM? Why do some new GM's draft ok the first year? Luck? Madan Cloe? Why do some teams do well the first year under a new GM? Some actually improve. Magic 8 ball? And what was more important to Pioli when he got here than the draft? Couldn't he do the administrative stuff later? Change the office around and fire the security guard after the draft? I would have though that he would have spent a LOT of time on the draft when he first got here. Yeah, hire a coach, but leave the rest of the stuff till later. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. I do know that everytime I've been asked to take over a business, I'm expected to make progress quickly. Gone are the days of getting worse before it gets better.
Posts: 590