Pioli already knows who he's going to draft.

[googlegoogle]

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=115&f=1837&t=5669684

[ChiefsCountry]

So tell me Hootie which of these picks were so awful

Bengals
1. Everette Brown, DE, Florida State
2. Jamon Meredith, OT, South Carolina
3. Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama
3. Shonn Greene, RB Iowa
4. Cornelius Ingram, TE, Florida
5. Vance Walker, DT Georgia Tech
6. Captain Munnerlyn, CB, South Carolina
6. Brian Hoyer, QB, Michigan State
7. Britton Colquitt, P, Tennessee
7. PJ Hill, RB, Wisconsin
7. Anthony Felder, LB, California

Cowboys
2. William Moore, S, Missouri
3. Herman Johnson, OG, LSU
4. Sammie Lee Hill, DT, Stillman
4. Sebastian Vollmer, OT, Houston
5. Domonique Johnson, CB, Jackson State
5. Jarett Dillard, WR, Rice
5. Henry Melton, DE/OLB, Texas
6. Stephen McGee, QB, Texas A&M
6. Lardarius Webb, S/KR, Nicholls State
7. Brock Christopher, LB, Missouri
7. Quan Cosby, WR, Texas

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

So what did you mean by the quote below because that is how I took it as well?

"So far, my dislikes for the new regime are outnumbering my dislikes from the previous one. "

...

Tell me one move this regime made that has shown to be a good one before the hires of Weis and Crennel.

1

...

Carl may not have drafted well, but I dont think he ever had a draft as bad as ours last year. Im not sure you could have bombed a draft much worse, at least from first glances.

Pioli cut Pollard and signed Mike Brown to replace him
they benched DJ
didnt let Page on the field as much as he should be before he got injured
signed Goff to start and wouldnt take him out till injuries took him out
continue to start Rudy at a position he is getting dominated at all year ...badly
traded for Mike Vrabel
benched and even deactivated Jamaal Charles and started LJ
wouldnt let Studabaker on the field on defense in fear he would completely show up Mr Vrabel like against Pittsburgh
went for it on our own 30 yard line
called a hail mary from the opponents 25 yard line with their 63 million dollar qb they got after he started one year since high school,
fired our OC and QBC mere days before the season started and started from scratch on offense showing total irresponsibility toward the needed development of our new qb with such drastically limited amount of experience with such moves,
took a 5-tec in the top five when about every position we needed offered a legit prospect for us to draft at that spot including qb
Switched from a scheme that had multiple first rounders invested in it and basically jettisoned half the talent and a top 5 pick to make the change and it still wasnt successful, even remotely.

I dont want to add more, it hurts too bad to remember all the ****ups and all I hope is that these arent stubborn guys and that they can show to learn from their mistakes and not just try to cover them up, if they are they type to want to cover them up we might be in for some very disappointing moments in the near future.

I hope not.

I dont even know where to start on making a list of things I like that this regime has done so far. It would be a short list, to be sure. Ill try.

Didnt go with a has been or never was as the new HC, instead went with a up and comer with a good track record for getting the most out of his players through various motivational techniques.
Weis
Crennel
I like that they didnt change the team colors.

Im sorry, but I am a guy that loves this team but has been burned in the past by drinking the koolaid instead of being objective and right now if you were to grade this regime overall for their job so far it would be a d at absolute maximum and IMO it should be a F.

I hope the hit a homerun offseason and we get that average up to a c by training camp.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BossChief

"So far, my dislikes for the new regime are outnumbering my dislikes from the previous one. "

...

Tell me one move this regime made that has shown to be a good one before the hires of Weis and Crennel.

1

...

Carl may not have drafted well, but I dont think he ever had a draft as bad as ours last year. Im not sure you could have bombed a draft much worse, at least from first glances.

Pioli cut Pollard and signed Mike Brown to replace him
they benched DJ
didnt let Page on the field as much as he should be before he got injured
signed Goff to start and wouldnt take him out till injuries took him out
continue to start Rudy at a position he is getting dominated at all year ...badly
traded for Mike Vrabel
benched and even deactivated Jamaal Charles and started LJ
wouldnt let Studabaker on the field on defense in fear he would completely show up Mr Vrabel like against Pittsburgh
went for it on our own 30 yard line
called a hail mary from the opponents 25 yard line with their 63 million dollar qb they got after he started one year since high school,
fired our OC and QBC mere days before the season started and started from scratch on offense showing total irresponsibility toward the needed development of our new qb with such drastically limited amount of experience with such moves,
took a 5-tec in the top five when about every position we needed offered a legit prospect for us to draft at that spot including qb
Switched from a scheme that had multiple first rounders invested in it and basically jettisoned half the talent and a top 5 pick to make the change and it still wasnt successful, even remotely.

I dont want to add more, it hurts too bad to remember all the ****ups and all I hope is that these arent stubborn guys and that they can show to learn from their mistakes and not just try to cover them up, if they are they type to want to cover them up we might be in for some very disappointing moments in the near future.

I hope not.

I dont even know where to start on making a list of things I like that this regime has done so far. It would be a short list, to be sure. Ill try.

Didnt go with a has been or never was as the new HC, instead went with a up and comer with a good track record for getting the most out of his players through various motivational techniques.
Weis
Crennel
I like that they didnt change the team colors.

Im sorry, but I am a guy that loves this team but has been burned in the past by drinking the koolaid instead of being objective and right now if you were to grade this regime overall for their job so far it would be a d at absolute maximum and IMO it should be a F.

I hope the hit a homerun offseason and we get that average up to a c by training camp.

Well, Boss, while Pioli's offseason was bad, it wasn't a whole lot worse than the kinds of offseasons Carl Peterson was stringing together late in his career. The difference is that Peterson had a below average season time-after-time-after-time, whereas Pioli has only had one. (that excludes the last season of the Peterson era where, I believe, Peterson lost most control and Kuharich was calling most of the shots on the personnel side).

So I dislike what Pioli has done in 2009 as much as I hated what Peterson does. I think it's fair to give last offseason an F. But until Pioli flubs the offseason consistently, he's not going to match my hatred for Peterson.

I don't like what Pioli's done so far either (even though I've been labelled an apologist, for some reason). I just don't understand the overreaction and can't stand when people fish for small, stupid, exaggerated details. And this thread is the classic example of that. The fact that people are actually going to believe that Scott Pioli is yawning through the combine is a pretty good testament to how far some people will go.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Well, Boss, while Pioli's offseason was bad, it wasn't a whole lot worse than the kinds of offseasons Carl Peterson was stringing together late in his career. The difference is that Peterson had a below average season time-after-time-after-time, whereas Pioli has only had one. (that excludes the last season of the Peterson era where, I believe, Peterson lost most control and Kuharich was calling most of the shots on the personnel side).

So I dislike what Pioli has done in 2009 as much as I hated what Peterson does. I think it's fair to give last offseason an F. But until Pioli flubs the offseason consistently, he's not going to match my hatred for Peterson.

I don't like what Pioli's done so far either (even though I've been labelled an apologist, for some reason). I just don't understand the overreaction and can't stand when people fish for small, stupid, exaggerated details. And this thread is the classic example of that. The fact that people are actually going to believe that Scott Pioli is yawning through the combine is a pretty good testament to how far some people will go.

If you dont want to be grouped in with Pioli apologists then dont make up excuses for him that dont include factual statements. When you do, you are from that point a "slurpie"

I want the guy to succeed as much as ANYONE out there, but CP didnt have one single offseason or draft that was as bad as we got from Scott in 2009. Never. I can say that easily because its the truth. Even in 2004 he got us Jared (even though Dick Vermiel had to stand on a table and tell CP to draft him. I hated CP with a passion but he was never that bad.

Pioli owes us all a big one and his name is either Eric or Jimmy!

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by BossChief

"So far, my dislikes for the new regime are outnumbering my dislikes from the previous one. "

...

Tell me one move this regime made that has shown to be a good one before the hires of Weis and Crennel.

1

...

Carl may not have drafted well, but I dont think he ever had a draft as bad as ours last year. Im not sure you could have bombed a draft much worse, at least from first glances.

Fair enough I was just curious because you said that isn't what you meant which in all honesty it is what you meant. And if you think CP didn't have worse drafts then you have bad memory.

2002 Draft

	Ryan Sims	North Carolina
2	Eddie Freeman	Alabama-Birmingham
4	Omar Easy	Penn State
5	Scott Fujita	California
7	Maurice Rodriguez	Fresno State

2001 Draft

	Eric Downing	Syracuse
3	Marvin Minnis	Florida State
4	Monty Beisel	Kansas State
4	George Layne	Texas Christian
5	Billy Baber	Virginia
5	Derrick Blaylock	Stephen F. Austin
6	Alex Sulfsted	Miami (OH)
7	Shaunard Harts	Boise State
7	Terdell Sands	Chattanooga
2000 Draft
Rnd	Name	College	Note
1	Sylvester Morris	Jackson State
2	William Bartee	Oklahoma
3	Gregory Wesley	Arkansas-Pine Bluff
4	Frank Moreau	Louisville
5	Dante Hall	Texas A&M
5	Patrick Dennis	Louisiana-Monroe
6	Darnell Alford	Boston College
7	Desmond Kitchings	Furman

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Fair enough I was just curious because you said that isn't what you meant which in all honesty it is what you meant. And if you think CP didn't have worse drafts then you have bad memory.

2002 Draft

2001 Draft

Ugh, those drafts still make me ill.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Fair enough I was just curious because you said that isn't what you meant which in all honesty it is what you meant. And if you think CP didn't have worse drafts then you have bad memory.

2002 Draft

2001 Draft

That didnt help you but thanks for playing.

Its been fun.

Why dont you post Carls draft from 1989 when he had a top 3 pick...didnt think so.

You can try to paint those drafts as worse, but they werent. We had a top 3 pick and got a good defender but not a top 3 kinda player at all. Im not sure I can remember a draft when a top 3 picking team took a player that wasnt even in the green room.

00 would have been a good draft if Morris never gets hurt. 3 solid players from one draft isnt a bad one. Injuries happen, you cant blame Carl for that and be honest in the conversation.

01 took multiple high picks to get a coach that never failed to take ANY team to the championship game whether in college or pros. EVERY TEAM BUT US.

02 we drafted Sims and he busted, but he was a player than any team in the NFL would have made him their pick at that slot because he looked like a impact player coming out.

We passed on elite prospects at rushbacker, qb, wr, nt, and OL to take a 5-tec that isnt a elite prospect.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by BossChief

That didnt help you but thanks for playing.

Its been fun.

Why dont you post Carls draft from 1989 when he had a top 3 pick...didnt think so.

You can try to paint those drafts as worse, but they werent. We had a top 3 pick and got a good defender but not a top 3 kinda player at all. Im not sure I can remember a draft when a top 3 picking team took a player that wasnt even in the green room.

00 would have been a good draft if Morris never gets hurt. 3 solid players from one draft isnt a bad one. Injuries happen, you cant blame Carl for that and be honest in the conversation.

01 took multiple high picks to get a coach that never failed to take ANY team to the championship game whether in college or pros. EVERY TEAM BUT US.

02 we drafted Sims and he busted, but he was a player than any team in the NFL would have made him their pick at that slot because he looked like a impact player coming out.

We passed on elite prospects at rushbacker, qb, wr, nt, and OL to take a 5-tec that isnt a elite prospect.

You really need to go back and look at the last 10 years of Carl drafting. By far his best draft was his very last one the others are an abortion. This isn't any kind of surprise. But I agree with you CP had a better first draft pick than Pioli no question about it. DT is still my all time favorite Chief.

And I am not saying that Pioli's first draft was a success it is to early to tell but it sure isn't as bad as the 3 that I posted right now. Maybe 5 years from now it will be.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BossChief

If you dont want to be grouped in with Pioli apologists then dont make up excuses for him that dont include factual statements. When you do, you are from that point a "slurpie"

I want the guy to succeed as much as ANYONE out there, but CP didnt have one single offseason or draft that was as bad as we got from Scott in 2009. Never. I can say that easily because its the truth. Even in 2004 he got us Jared (even though Dick Vermiel had to stand on a table and tell CP to draft him. I hated CP with a passion but he was never that bad.

Pioli owes us all a big one and his name is either Eric or Jimmy!

How is saying that Pioli gets an "F" apologizing for him?

I'm saying that Carl Peterson was one of the most consistently bad drafters in the NFL and that he did for over 15 years straight. Until 2008, when he was finally pushed out of the draft room.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...2310&type=team
In almost every single draft, he whiffed on every pick and hit on one pick. And yes, I think the 2002 draft very closely parallels the 2009 draft--especially given that we TRADED UP to take an absolute bust. So if your argument is that one F season will make you dislike a person more than 15 straight D seasons, then I think you're being just a little short-sighted.

And yes, Peterson has had much worse offseasons. 2004 was the worst of all time. How about the Chiefs going 13-3, then the Chiefs decide to fire Greg Robinson for Gunther Cunningham, trade down in the draft to take Junior Siavii, follow that up with Kris Wilson, Keyaran Fox, Samie Parker, Jared Allen (okay, one hit), Jeris McIntyre, and Kevin Sampson. In the meantime, they sat on their hands and even took a vacation in the opening weeks of free agency.

C'mon, Boss. Pioli has been bad... so far. But to compare him to Carl Peterson after one season is slightly ridiculous. You're better than that.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BossChief

That didnt help you but thanks for playing.

Its been fun.

Why dont you post Carls draft from 1989 when he had a top 3 pick...didnt think so.

You can try to paint those drafts as worse, but they werent. We had a top 3 pick and got a good defender but not a top 3 kinda player at all. Im not sure I can remember a draft when a top 3 picking team took a player that wasnt even in the green room.

00 would have been a good draft if Morris never gets hurt. 3 solid players from one draft isnt a bad one. Injuries happen, you cant blame Carl for that and be honest in the conversation.

01 took multiple high picks to get a coach that never failed to take ANY team to the championship game whether in college or pros. EVERY TEAM BUT US.

02 we drafted Sims and he busted, but he was a player than any team in the NFL would have made him their pick at that slot because he looked like a impact player coming out.

We passed on elite prospects at rushbacker, qb, wr, nt, and OL to take a 5-tec that isnt a elite prospect.

And for the record, nobody is arguing that the 2009 draft wasn't an abortion of a draft. It was. We all know it.

[Saccopoo]

[QUOTE=BossChief;6572095]

That didnt help you but thanks for playing.

Its been fun.

Why dont you post Carls draft from 1989 when he had a top 3 pick...didnt think so.

Jesus dude, don't dig a hole for yourself and lay in it. Because Carl got lucky with Derrick Thomas, that's his saving grace? 20 years of horrible drafts, truly horrible drafts.

You can try to paint those drafts as worse, but they werent. We had a top 3 pick and got a good defender but not a top 3 kinda player at all. Im not sure I can remember a draft when a top 3 picking team took a player that wasnt even in the green room.

That's your criteria for a good draft? That the guy is in the green room prepping for a television appearance?

02 we drafted Sims and he busted, but he was a player than any team in the NFL would have made him their pick at that slot because he looked like a impact player coming out.

He played next to Julius Peppers, who was constantly double and triple teamed, and didn't do anything in his career until the Senior Bowl. It was a complete reach of a pick. That's the type of Carl busto drafts that make most of his drafts complete dog shit. The best player out of that draft was Scott Fujita, who was a steal in the fifth round. And guess what, by the end of year three, after he led the Chiefs in tackles for two straight seasons, Carl trades him for a SIXTH round pick.

He got studs in DT, Gonzalez. He got insanely lucky in Jared Allen, then traded him away by year three. They traded a guy who is considered elite as not only a pass rusher but as a complete defensive player as he was coming into the best years of his career. So they could give the money to Larry Johnson.

You want to know how bad Carl's drafts are? We have no players on our team from them.

2007: Only Dwayne Bowe remains.
2006: Tamba, Brodie and Page
2005: Johnson and Colquitt
2004: No one.
2003: No one.
2002: No one.
2001: No one.
2000: No one.

So, when the core of our team should be built from these drafts, we have an over achiever playing out of position at ROLB, a punter, a backup QB, an under achieving, part time, special teams linebacker, a hurt safety, and a wide receiver who can't run routes or hold onto the ball.

The 2008 draft was Carl's crowning achievement giving the team four starters in Dorsey, Albert, Flowers and Charles. And Charles has only been a starter for eight games, and Dorsey and Albert have been mediocre at best to this point. Flowers is a stud. (And considering that two of those players from that draft came at the expense of losing one of, if not the, best defenders/pass rushers in the league in Jared Allen...well, you be the judge of that transaction.)

That's it. An entire decade of drafts, and we have two legit high level players in Flowers and Charles, and Charles hasn't even started an entire season.

And that's the guy who you are attempting to defend? Yeesh.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

He played next to Julius Peppers, who was constantly double and triple teamed, and didn't do anything in his career until the Senior Bowl. It was a complete reach of a pick. That's the type of Carl busto drafts that make most of his drafts complete dog shit.

Completely false that the pick was a reach. The Vikings were trying to take Sims as well. KC beat them to the podium.

[keg in kc]

Is BossChief Saccopoo's dupe?

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Completely false that the pick was a reach. The Vikings were trying to take Sims as well. KC beat them to the podium.

I understand, but it would have been just as big a reach for the Vikings as well as the Chiefs. It was one of those picks that was made because the guy had a really good week at the Senior Bowl and that's about it. I remember them talking about it - that he "blew it up" at the Senior Bowl.

But the facts remain, he played next to Peppers, who dominated even while facing constant double teams. It was the exact same type of reach that teams did in 2007 after Mario Williams was drafted. Two other NCS defensive line players were subsequently taken in the first round when the 49er's took Manny Lawson and the Bills took John McCargo.

Just because there were two teams stupid enough to burn a top ten pick on Sims doesn't mean it wasn't a reach.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Completely false that the pick was a reach. The Vikings were trying to take Sims as well. KC beat them to the podium.

I still curse the Vikings for being too slow. Had they got up there before the Chiefs, things might have been different. I still wonder if the Chiefs would have taken Bryant McKinnie or John Henderson?