Ninkovich thinks Lamar Jackson has more upside than Mahomes

[Megatron96]

Not only that, but Robbie would rather start an NFL franchise with Lamar over Patrick!

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Jackson is only 23. He'll keep improving.

Then again, so will Mahomes...

That was essentially Ninkovich’s “argument”. Jackson is young and will improve. Umm, yeah, and Mahomes?

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

He's a former Patriot so what do you expect? 1) stop giving these guys airtime; 2) all ex-Patriots hate the Chiefs.

Where do you get this from? I haven't seen any ex-Patriots aside from this moron saying anything. I'm sure even Belichick, when he heard what Ninkovich said, thought, "This guy's a ****ing idiot." (Why would ex-Patriots hate the Chiefs? They've faced KC twice in the playoffs and beaten them both times. It's not like KC is their mortal enemy. The Patriots have lost to the Ravens twice in the playoffs and the Broncos three times.)

He's clearly saying this to be contrarian and get clicks. Chris Simms pulls a lot of this shit too. Welcome to the world of having a good QB. You know how many early seasons we had to listen to "Brady is a system QB"?

I'm not even sure why Lamar won MVP. He was 12th in completion percentage in the regular season. He was 31st in yards per game. Lamar is a glorified running back. Dude had the 6th most rushing yards last season. You know what running backs usually have? Short careers, especially guys who aren't power backs who take awkward hits on the run. You know who was #1 in yards? A guy who's now a backup (Winston). You know who had the highest QB rating? A guy who's been a fringe starter (Tannehill). You know who's the best QB in the NFL? Anyone with a pair of eyes can tell you it's Patrick ****ing Mahomes.

If I'm building a team right now, I take Mahomes. After that? Russell Wilson. Or Deshaun Watson. Or Tannehill, or Brees, or Cousins even. Prescott. Rodgers. Wentz. Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford. Shit, I can throw a rock and hit a better QB than Lamar.

[Bearcat]

Meh... if ESPN had to find a homeless guy off the street (or Skip Bayless) to argue the other side of a story, they would.

Hell, we've had our own 'Tom Brady is fading' for what, the time it's taken him to appear in two more Super Bowls?

It gets clicks.

[Hoover]

Since I don't know who Ninkovich is, I imagine he is saying this to get some much needed attention.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by JD10367

Where do you get this from? I haven't seen any ex-Patriots aside from this moron saying anything. I'm sure even Belichick, when he heard what Ninkovich said, thought, "This guy's a ****ing idiot." (Why would ex-Patriots hate the Chiefs? They've faced KC twice in the playoffs and beaten them both times. It's not like KC is their mortal enemy. The Patriots have lost to the Ravens twice in the playoffs and the Broncos three times.)

He's clearly saying this to be contrarian and get clicks. Chris Simms pulls a lot of this shit too. Welcome to the world of having a good QB. You know how many early seasons we had to listen to "Brady is a system QB"?

I'm not even sure why Lamar won MVP. He was 12th in completion percentage in the regular season. He was 31st in yards per game. Lamar is a glorified running back. Dude had the 6th most rushing yards last season. You know what running backs usually have? Short careers, especially guys who aren't power backs who take awkward hits on the run. You know who was #1 in yards? A guy who's now a backup (Winston). You know who had the highest QB rating? A guy who's been a fringe starter (Tannehill). You know who's the best QB in the NFL? Anyone with a pair of eyes can tell you it's Patrick ****ing Mahomes.

If I'm building a team right now, I take Mahomes. After that? Russell Wilson. Or Deshaun Watson. Or Tannehill, or Brees, or Cousins even. Prescott. Rodgers. Wentz. Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford. Shit, I can throw a rock and hit a better QB than Lamar.

Sure, but Chris Simms never bashes Mahomes because he knows better

[digger]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Not only that, but Robbie would rather start an NFL franchise with Lamar over Patrick!

[DRM08]

Let me know when he leads his team to a single playoff win, never mind coming back from double digit deficit to win by double digits in 3 straight playoff games.

[MMXcalibur]

OK Robbie, let's revisit this conversation in 3-4 years after Jackson has been getting thumped by defenders 15-20 times a game.

See you in 2023 (if we make it).

[Best22]

Originally Posted by JD10367

Where do you get this from? I haven't seen any ex-Patriots aside from this moron saying anything. I'm sure even Belichick, when he heard what Ninkovich said, thought, "This guy's a ****ing idiot." (Why would ex-Patriots hate the Chiefs? They've faced KC twice in the playoffs and beaten them both times. It's not like KC is their mortal enemy. The Patriots have lost to the Ravens twice in the playoffs and the Broncos three times.)

He's clearly saying this to be contrarian and get clicks. Chris Simms pulls a lot of this shit too. Welcome to the world of having a good QB. You know how many early seasons we had to listen to "Brady is a system QB"?

I'm not even sure why Lamar won MVP. He was 12th in completion percentage in the regular season. He was 31st in yards per game. Lamar is a glorified running back. Dude had the 6th most rushing yards last season. You know what running backs usually have? Short careers, especially guys who aren't power backs who take awkward hits on the run. You know who was #1 in yards? A guy who's now a backup (Winston). You know who had the highest QB rating? A guy who's been a fringe starter (Tannehill). You know who's the best QB in the NFL? Anyone with a pair of eyes can tell you it's Patrick ****ing Mahomes.

If I'm building a team right now, I take Mahomes. After that? Russell Wilson. Or Deshaun Watson. Or Tannehill, or Brees, or Cousins even. Prescott. Rodgers. Wentz. Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford. Shit, I can throw a rock and hit a better QB than Lamar.

All true but Patriots people/fans have been some of the biggest Chiefs bashers ever since we got Mahomes

[ClevelandBronco]

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

Ninkovich is Ninkostupid with that take.

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Stinkovich

"Ninkopoop."

[Demonpenz]

People are going to have to pretend there is a competition because it is boring knowing the chiefs coaching and players are elite and it isn't close.When Lamar goes down from a NCI shit is going to get real.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

The man values his eyes. There is a nest of ravens in his beard.

[KC_Lee]

Mahomes vs. Jackson will be the new Manning vs. Brady for the next 8 - 10 years.

[Megatron96]

No, I think Robbie believes what he said, unfortunately. And he has a support group . . .

let me give you 2019 stats since you want me to look at them ..Lamar 66 completion percentage, Mahomes 65 completion percentage.. Lamar 113 quarterback rating , Mahomes 106 quarterback rating..Lamar 36 touchdown passes , Mahomes 26 touchdown passes.. Lamar 25 touchdown passes from the pocket , Mahomes 18 touchdown passes from the pocket ...Lamar 3 perfect games (156qbr) Mahomes 0 perfect games Lamar 3 games with 5 touchdown passes Lead NFL , Lamar touchdown efficiency threw a touchdown pass every 7.38 pass completions , Mahomes touchdown efficiency threw a touchdown pass every 12.06 pass completions..which means Lamar was more efficient in 2019 ...so you asked for the stats I gave them to u now what? ..its the reason Lamar won the unanimous MVP..wasnt just for his running abilities if that was the case Michael Vick would have won 1...Lamar was the best quarterback in the NFL last year

You gotta understand as far as efficiency Lamar is right there Patrick Mahomes. The difference tho is if you pay Lamar you are paying for 2 positions RB/QB. Aswell as the amount of plays they can run with tight ends which is way more cheaper than Wide Receivers. That extra money can be used to build a solid defense & o-line. People also forget the fact that Lamar was averaging 3 quarters this season. Still giving the ravens time to develop another QB.

Lamar didnt have 50 touchdowns ..but he did have 43 ..but he didnt need 50 touchdowns win 14 games ..but did Mahomes throw 5 touchdown passes in 3 separate games or did he have 3 perfect quarterback ratings in one season?

[Megatron96]

And yet another dipstick. I think this one's my favorite though. He's thinking so hard!:

This just occurred to me yesterday – it actually staggered me a little, I had to stop what I was doing and stand still for a moment. You ready?

Lamar > Mahomes.

Not only that, but it's really friggin obvious that Lamar > Mahomes. We're all overlooking something utterly basic.

Wait! Just hear me out a second.


First, to get this out of the way:

Mahomes is probably the most exciting young passer I have ever seen. He's like the best of Brett Favre and Dan Marino. He's ridiculous. I am not out of step with the groupthink on that. I see it the same way everyone else does: he's amazing.

But: what is the job of a QB? What is the role of that position? It's NOT to pass the ball. Passing is the means. What's the job? The goal?

The QB's job is to do three things:

1. Move the ball
2. Score points
3. Win games

Right? That's the job.

Mahomes amazes because he does #1 & 2 so effortlessly, seemingly at will.

But you phrase the job that way, it clarifies how a "game manager" like peak Alex Smith or Phill Simms can be good QBs. It also points out how you need different things from your QB in different situations. For example, up 2 with 4 mins to play, you need your QB to retain possession and finish the win. You don't want him to go all daring Matthew Stafford on you. On the other hand, down 5 with 3 mins left, you need a QB who can open it up.


So here's why Lamar > Mahomes:

What percentage of Mahomes would you say Lamar is, as a passer? Do you have Lamar at 70% of Mahomes? 80%? 90%? I say 70 is WAY too low. I've got Lamar as around 90-95% of Mahomes as a passer. We can quibble here; but the exact value is not that critical. For argument, let's say Lamar is 85% of the passer that Mahomes is.

And what percentage of Lamar's impact on the running game would you say that Mahomes has? Like, 5%?

That's why Lamar is obviously a better QB than Mahomes. He brings around 85% of what Mahomes brings in the passing game; and adds this whole other huge dimension in the running game. Lamar's presence turns a pedestrian running game into an attack as dangerous as some passing games.

Lamar improves a team more than Mahomes does.

1. Move the ball
2. Score points
3. Win games

Lamar does more to help a team accomplish those items, than Lamar does.

Lamar > Mahomes.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum


To go the other way and draw the opposite conclusion, you have to make really strong assumptions. You have to go all PFF and assume that rushing the ball brings a team zero value; or you have to assume that Lamar < 70% of Mahomes as a passer. Those are hotter, bolder takes than anything I've written here. If rushing the ball has some value to a team at all; and if what Lamar showed with his passing efficiency numbers last year is anywhere close to true; then it must be true that Lamar > Mahomes.

Or else you have to hyper-focus on specific situations: like you'd rather have Mahomes throwing the pass on 4th-&-40 therefore Mahomes is globally the better QB. I also would rather have Mahomes throwing the pass on 4th-&-40; but that doesn't make Mahomes globally better.


The real reason to argue the opposite, that Mahomes > Lamar, is because you're more comfortable that Mahomes can replicate what he's done. Mahomes has the more traditional NFL game; Lamar is more likely to get injured. Lamar's game is riskier; more likely to suddenly lose value. I can see that one. Whether it proves to be accurate or not, it makes sense for people to retain some skepticism until they see how it plays out.

But we don't usually factor-in injury, when we're assessing who's better. "Unless he gets hurt" is always the unspoken codicil to every player ranking. Is it more fair to apply that to Lamar than to other QBs? Maybe yes. Cam Newton has declined a lot in effectiveness from his MVP year. But, hell: Peyton Manning declined suddenly too. I'm not sure the answer here.

Absent injury, Lamar > Mahomes. How much to ding Lamar for injury risk, I don't know.