How does Dwayne Bowe rank among the elite WR's?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sorry, didn't want this getting overlooked in the other thread. Then again, people will probably ignore it anyway - I know some of you will appreciate this.


I keep seeing people say that Dwayne Bowe isn't an elite WR. So I decided to do some research to see how he matches up statistically over his 5 years in the league.

What I found, is that statistically, Bowe is the 10th best WR of the last 5 years.

I found 9 other WR's that either had better yardage totals, better TD numbers or both. He was 10th in yardage, tied for 6th in TD's.

Here's the list. (Yardage/TD's) Bolded players have fewer or same TD's as Bowe.


Larry Fitzgerald - 6480/49

Roddy White - 6422/42

Reggie Wayne - 6234/36

Wes Welker - 6105/31

Calvin Johnson - 5872/49

Andre Johnson - 5703/35

Greg Jennings - 5539/46

Steve Smith - 5353/29

Marques Colston - 5202/40

Dwayne Bowe - 4927/36


Personally, I think that's impressive on its own.

Especially when you consider the only guy on this list who is younger is Megatron. I'd be curious to see how he matches up to the same players during each of their first 5 seasons.

Anyway, when you compare Bowe's number's to the #1 yardage and #1 TD's - he's not nearly as far off as it seems.

It comes down to 19.41 yard a game, and .16 TD's per game.

Factor in that Bowe is missing something the other 9 have - solid QB play.

After looking at this, its hard for me to say Dwayne Bowe is NOT an elite WR, considering how his numbers match up to the "elite" and never having the benefit of decent QB play.

I'm pretty confident in saying that with solid QB play, Bowe would easily make up 19.41 yards and .16 TD's a game.

Like him or not, he's an elite WR - and has shown it over his 5 years in the league.

Dude deserved elite money.

Or, tl;dr - **** him.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by BigRock

Incidentally, Adam Schefter's entire quote on Bowe/money:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Great. If this is entirely accurate, Pioli is misjudging talent. Again.

That's the quote I just heard on Mike and Mike.

[DeezNutz]

Haley transformed Bowe into a player who consistently works hard. No flexing. Lost 5 pounds.

Complete farce. A very good player, one who has been outstanding since he came into the league, entered his prime. Incidentally, he still has the same "flaws" that he's always had: drops, inconsistent route running, mental lapses, etc.

Thank goodness for the coach who was fired mid-season, though.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Toad King

You gonna tell me that Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson didn't post a bunch of numbers while they were losing and their teams sucked?

Also, didn't we play a crap ton of close games in 2007 and 2008?

Well, there's two of my points.

It doesn't matter if you're playing with a lead, playing from behind, or tied.

The facts don't change. Bowe doesn't get targeted as much as other top WR's.

[Hammock Parties]

Let's see, 4-3 in the first 7 games of 2007. I'm sucking off Herm and enjoying the mediocrity. We were in first place.

Bowe had:

5-71-1 in a win over Minnesota. Caught GW TD.

8-164-1 in a win over SD.

4-46 in a win over CIN

3-84 in a win over Oakland

In wins, Bowe averaged 91.25 yards per game. As a rookie. He was a big reason we won those games and had sweet, sweet false hope.


Let's look at other games.


7-64-1 in a 3-point loss at Indy. Bowe is a big reason we're in that game.

4-63 in a 3-point loss to Oakland. Bowe is once again doing well in a competitive game.

8-97-1 in a very close loss to the Lions. Megatron does shit in this game.


That's about 60 percent of his yards and 4 TD in games we either won or could have won where Bowe helped us compete. As a rookie. Those aren't BS numbers. That's a good player doing work and helping a shitty team compete.

I'll do 08 next.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by BigRock

I think a good rule of thumb is that if you have to look at a page of stats to determine whether a guy is an elite player, then he's probably not.

And Bowe isn't. He's a very good receiver. But he's not elite.

That doesn't mean he shouldn't get paid. I hope he's in KC for years. Pay him whatever he wants, it's not my money. But let's not get so carried away with ****ING PIOLI ****ING THINGS UP AGAIN that we trick ourselves into thinking Bowe's something he's not.

We all watch him play. We all know that his "very good" games far outweigh his "great" ones. If it wasn't for 2010, this wouldn't even be a topic of conversation.

Could Bowe be among the elite if he played under better circumstances? Better QB and all that? Sure. But things can cut both ways. If we're just going to compare blind stats, then all those guys in the OP, how much of their yards and TDs did they post while playing from behind on dogshit teams? Because in Bowe's case, it's a lot.

Bowe's first two years in the league, he put up nearly 70% of his stats while the team was getting its ass kicked. Obviously defenses play you differently in those situations. And we threw the hell out of the ball his first couple years. Everyone thinks of ol' Conservative Herm never wanting to throw, but they had to pass. They were constantly behind.

I believe we were 10th in pass attempts in Bowe's first two years. Lots of passes, always having to play catch-up, that's going to boost a receiver's numbers. But nobody ever factors that stuff in. We'll talk about why his numbers aren't as good as they could be, but never mention that in some years they look better than they really were.

Starting in 2010, it was a totally different story. We threw the ball far less. We were playing with leads. That year, Bowe posted nearly 70% of his stats while the team was tied or ahead. It was a total transformation. (Cue up simpleton bullshit about how Bowe didn't improve under Haley because he went from 1000 yards to 1000 yards).

That Bowe was elite. He changed games. He was a beast. He had a good 2011, but it wasn't quite at that same level. It's not a fair comparision, though, because the run game fell apart without Charles.

As it stands, though, he's had one great year and some years that were good to very good. That just doesn't make for an "elite" player.

But if Bowe beasts again this year, which he very well may if defenses have to respect the run, then Pioli's going to have to swallow his pride and open the checkbook or look like a massive fool (again).

Bravo. I knew someone who wasn't just interested in petty arguments would show up sooner or later. I'll take my turn one day, it's been a bit.

Just wondering, where is Milkman? Hope he's alright.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by aturnis

Bravo. I knew someone who wasn't just interested in petty arguments would show up sooner or later. I'll take my turn one day, it's been a bit.

Ho.

Lee.

Shit.


Deez, please tell me you saw this.

[Gadzooks]

Baldwin was brought in because he's a similar type of player to Bowe.
Pioli knows Bowe will leave for a contract and Baldwin will take some time to develop. The tag was an excellent preemptive strike by Pioli and you guys should be happy to wave Bowe out of town and use the money saved from his ridiculous contract demands on players that would be more difficult to replace down the road. (Berry comes to mind, maybe a real QB, etc…)
The Chargers are going through a similar situation with the VJ defection and may not be in as good of a position going into the transition. I’m not worried because we have a QB.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Ho.

Lee.

Shit.


Deez, please tell me you saw this.

can't joke around here?

[Hammock Parties]

2008

5-49-1 in a game at New England where Bowe keeps the team in the game in the 4th with a sensational TD grab. Drops GW TD, but whatever.

7-85 in a win over Denver that gets my johnson rock solid.

6-102 in a 4-point loss at NY that we're going to win until Favre pulls a comeback.

2-29-1 in a close home loss to the Bucs. Thigpen going HAM here.

6-72 in a 1-point loss to the Chargers.

7-53-2 in a 10-point loss to New Orleans that's competitive the whole game til late.

7-96 in a 7-pt loss to Denver. We lose late when Thigpen chokes at the goal line.

6-44-1 in another 1-point loss to SD. Gets Carl fired with an onsides drop, so this was huge.

10-103 in a 10-point loss to the Bengals. Bowe has almost half of our total offense in this game. No one else is doing shit to move the ball, don't tell me this wasn't a good game for Bowe. Cincy wasn't playing prevent the whole game.

Totals: 633 yards and 5 TD that aren't bullshit, son. Helping the team in close games that we mostly choke away. Had leads in a lot of these games. No blowouts here. That's 60 percent of Bowe's yards again and 5 of his 7 TD.

2009 next.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by aturnis

Bravo. I knew someone who wasn't just interested in petty arguments would show up sooner or later. I'll take my turn one day, it's been a bit.

Just wondering, where is Milkman? Hope he's alright.

Come on, dude. This kind of post makes you a perfect candidate for DC Forum troll of the year. "Somebody agrees with me! I knew somebody existed who is also interested in quality discussion instead of petty arguments!"

I agree with OTW on most football topics, but I disagree with him on Ricky Stanzi. I don't have my period about it though, or accuse him of nothing more than petty arguing.

You and I agree with each other on a lot of football topics, too. Dwayne Bowe's contract value isn't one of them. So what?

[Hammock Parties]

2009

4-40-1 in a game against the Ravens that's close until a backbreaking TD late. This game was tied in the 4th.

5-56-1 in an awful 3-point home loss to the Raiders.

5-74-1 in a loss to Dallas at home that we should have won. I was there and had group sex with Tiny and OTWP after Bowe's game-tying, 4th down, no BS TD in the 4th.

6-109 in a righteous win over the Redskins. That's most of our passing yards in this game.

6-91 in a win over the Raiders.

9-61 in a close loss to the Bengals that's tied in the 4th.

This is a shitty year for Bowe, no question. He has 589 yards and 4 TD on the year.

401 of those yards and 3 of those TD either help the Chiefs win a game or keep the Chiefs in a game in some way. That's 70 percent of his production.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Toad King

Let's see, 4-3 in the first 7 games of 2007. I'm sucking off Herm and enjoying the mediocrity. We were in first place.

Bowe had:

5-71-1 in a win over Minnesota. Caught GW TD.

8-164-1 in a win over SD.

4-46 in a win over CIN

3-84 in a win over Oakland

In wins, Bowe averaged 91.25 yards per game. As a rookie. He was a big reason we won those games and had sweet, sweet false hope.


Let's look at other games.


7-64-1 in a 3-point loss at Indy. Bowe is a big reason we're in that game.

4-63 in a 3-point loss to Oakland. Bowe is once again doing well in a competitive game.

8-97-1 in a very close loss to the Lions. Megatron does shit in this game.


That's about 60 percent of his yards and 4 TD in games we either won or could have won where Bowe helped us compete. As a rookie. Those aren't BS numbers. That's a good player doing work and helping a shitty team compete.

I'll do 08 next.

All before Art Haines came along

[Hammock Parties]

2010 - Bowe going HAM and shitting on everyone. I'm not going over the games but in wins:

700 yards, 10 TD. That's 60 percent of his production and 75 percent of his TD.

And you can tack on another 171 yards and 3 TD against the Texans and Raiders that were no bullshit whatsoever.

So bump it up to 871 yards (75 percent) and 13 TD (87 percent) that are straight up reasons we're winning.

Let's do 2011 and cry next.

[aturnis]

Dude, it was a joke. Hasn't this been a thread of petty arguments? The only thing I'm really applauding Big Rock for is flopping his dicks out on the table. One and done. No back and forth banter, just BAM!

If you think that was a serious post, you must not know me. I don't troll, and I hate trolls. The only troll I like to keep around makes sweet highlight vids.

If Bowe wants paid, pay him. If he wants PAID, I'm a bit hesitant.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Maybe it's chilly in here, but Big Rock's dick isn't looking so big at this point.

The 70% of his stats coming (implied) against a prevent defense myth has been debunked, and I'm in the process of debunking the "throwing the hell out of the ball" myth.

Still working on some math, but I've gotten far enough to say that of the original list, only the Panthers threw the ball less during that 5 year period than the Chiefs.