Vermeil thinks we need to be only decent on defense.

Red Dawg · 01-05-2005, 03:46 PM

and that is the problem. All he wants from a defense is to slow down a team just enough so we can out score them. The rest of the world wants a defense that hits hard, kills QB's, stuffs the run and refuses to give up big plays. He figures, they can't keep playing this bad. But Dick is flat wrong. They can and will keep playing this bad. If the offense wasn't scoring he'd cut people left and right and get the right players.

I have to say that Vermeil wants to stay loyal and will not want to cut any of them but the King may just force it. I will be stunned if we don't get some FA's, probably not many, 3 max but definitely 2. No matter what Dick says, Carl will not allow nothing to be done this off season and Gun will bitch and grip his head off until he does something.

Dr. Johnny Fever · 01-05-2005, 03:50 PM

I agree with all of that.

Poor Dick must be crying somewhere since he's not a genius/genious to anyone anymore.

Hammock Parties · 01-05-2005, 03:51 PM

We can only hope.

"Help me Julian Peterson. You're my only hope."

Shooting for mediocrity gets you nowhere. We should be shooting for perfection.

ck_IN · 01-05-2005, 03:58 PM

I like defense. I like dlinemen that blot out the sun. I like LB's that make Viking Beserkers nervous. I like CB's that think the ball has their name on it. I like safeties that make WR's pee their pants. That said, DV is right, and I'm a charter member DV hater. If our defense was high teens/low 20's we'd probably be in the playoffs right now instead of Denver.

The question isn't 'where should our defense be?', the question is 'How can we get improvement in 1 of DV's 5yrs?'. I dont' think DV has a clue on that 2nd question.

As for FA's I've no doubt that we'll sign someone. Most likely we'll sign 2 tier two FA's, probably a CB to replace Bartee and a LB to replace Barber but we'll be trading an old nickleback for a new nickleback and an average OLB for the same.

I simply don't see us making that jump from high 20's/low 30's to low 20's. That opportunity has been wasted by DV's magical mystery drafts.

Wallcrawler · 01-05-2005, 05:03 PM

Dont be too stunned.

Carl isnt just going to all of a sudden decide to pay the top tier talent the salary that they require to bring them here. He never has, and he never will.

Hell, Priest Holmes won the rushing title during his one year tenure here, and was ripping defenses up left and right, and STILL had to threaten to sit out before he could get paid.

Same thing with Tony Gonzalez.

Carl hates to pay anyone, even when they excel for his team. There is very, very little hope that he will just drop some bigtime cash and get some real defensive talent in here.

Look for maybe another sleeper pickup like Lional Dalton was, or something of that nature. Im not really seeing any blockbuster pickups for the Chiefs, even though there is going to be some outstanding talent in the defensive free agent pool again this offseason.

The stadium is still filling up regularly, so there is no need for Carl to hit the panic button and actually pay out some money to make it look like he really is trying to improve the team just yet.

Out of the big name free agent talent that is going to be available, how many of them do you actually believe will be wearing a Chiefs jersey at the end of Free Agency?

One, maybe if there is an act of God.

Hammock Parties · 01-05-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Stinger

Dont be too stunned.

Carl isnt just going to all of a sudden decide to pay the top tier talent the salary that they require to bring them here. He never has, and he never will.

Hell, Priest Holmes won the rushing title during his one year tenure here, and was ripping defenses up left and right, and STILL had to threaten to sit out before he could get paid.

Same thing with Tony Gonzalez.

Carl hates to pay anyone, even when they excel for his team. There is very, very little hope that he will just drop some bigtime cash and get some real defensive talent in here.

Look for maybe another sleeper pickup like Lional Dalton was, or something of that nature. Im not really seeing any blockbuster pickups for the Chiefs, even though there is going to be some outstanding talent in the defensive free agent pool again this offseason.

The stadium is still filling up regularly, so there is no need for Carl to hit the panic button and actually pay out some money to make it look like he really is trying to improve the team just yet.

Out of the big name free agent talent that is going to be available, how many of them do you actually believe will be wearing a Chiefs jersey at the end of Free Agency?

One, maybe if there is an act of God.

Stop it! You're depressing me!

Wallcrawler · 01-05-2005, 05:18 PM

Im not liking it any better than anyone else is.

Wheres the FireCarlPeterson.com petition at? Ill sign that, and get everyone I know to sign it also.

Ive questioned the front office's desire for a championship for a long time, because they just never go after anyone that could really give them a shot.

Maybe its Lamar hunt. He's seen his superbowl victory, waaaay back in superbowl 4. Now he's just concerned with living to see the sun rise tomorrow.

Mr. Laz · 01-05-2005, 05:49 PM

settling for mediocrity as pretty much always been are problem

we only need a decent defense
we only need a decent QB
we only need a decent RB

all BS

htismaqe · 01-05-2005, 06:01 PM

I'll be the first to say it.

**** Dick Vermeil.

I can't take one more year of this.

Dr. Johnny Fever · 01-05-2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I'll be the first to say it.

**** Dick Vermeil.

I can't take one more year of this.

The first??????!!!!

Damn.....I've been crushing Vermeil's head on every other post since week #3.

Mr. Christopher · 01-05-2005, 06:40 PM

THAT'S the problem. If DV would be aiming for having the #1 defense or even a top ten defensive unit in the league, instead of aiming for mediocrity, then we'd be looking forward to a playoff game or two this post season.

The Red Death · 01-05-2005, 06:48 PM

The frustrating thing is that this is what they said at Arrowhead each of the last two years. When are these guys going to learn that when you aim for mediocrity you usually end up getting a lot less? Of course, last year is when the bold changes should have been made. Now, assuming there is a desire to improve the defense, the improvements will be severely inhibited by financial and salary cap restraints. I hate to agree with Whitlock, but he's right when he says Vermeil treats the defense with apathy. He cares about special teams far more than defense. Don't get me wrong, I love watching this offense, but I'm still in shock about how quickly the Chiefs' defense evaporated and that there has been little to no attempt to fix it.

tk13 · 01-05-2005, 06:49 PM

I'd like to see a quote somewhere where Vermeil has ever said he just hoped to be mediocre on defense... I'm not arguing the success of the defense or the success of player development, just when has anyone involved with this team ever said they just hope to reach mediocre status on defense? I know they've failed miserably but I've never heard Carl or DV or Robinson or Gunther or anybody actually mention they do not want this to be a top ten defense...

Mr. Christopher · 01-05-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

I know they've failed miserably but I've never heard Carl or DV or Robinson or Gunther or anybody actually mention they do not want this to be a top ten defense...

I don't have a quote, but I know that they never said: "We do NOT want this to be a top ten defense." On the other hand, I remember reading a quote one time from DV that he felt if the Chiefs could just reach #15 on defense, we'd be in contention for the playoffs.

Now I realize that all of this is hearsay, and none of this is substantiated from quotes. Nevertheless, it does seem to me that there is not near enough attempt to even out the gap between our defense and our offense. I don't mind having a supercharged offense and an average defense. But when you AIM for average, you end up with subaverage.

Mr. Laz · 01-05-2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

I'd like to see a quote somewhere where Vermeil has ever said he just hoped to be mediocre on defense...

he has said several times that "all we need is to get the defense up to middle level"

paraphrase of course...

our course he didnt say "i ONLY WANT" a middle of the road defense

but that's splitting hairs and you know it

the problem is "settling for"

make the playoff and "see what happens"

"our (insert position here) is good enough to get by"

you never reach perfection, but if you continue to make excuses and settle for mediocre you won't EVEN GET mediocre, you'll get less.

01-05-2005, 03:46 PM
Red Dawg Going home eventually Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $4732858	Vermeil thinks we need to be only decent on defense. and that is the problem. All he wants from a defense is to slow down a team just enough so we can out score them. The rest of the world wants a defense that hits hard, kills QB's, stuffs the run and refuses to give up big plays. He figures, they can't keep playing this bad. But Dick is flat wrong. They can and will keep playing this bad. If the offense wasn't scoring he'd cut people left and right and get the right players. I have to say that Vermeil wants to stay loyal and will not want to cut any of them but the King may just force it. I will be stunned if we don't get some FA's, probably not many, 3 max but definitely 2. No matter what Dick says, Carl will not allow nothing to be done this off season and Gun will bitch and grip his head off until he does something.
Posts: 30,434

01-05-2005, 03:50 PM	#2
Dr. Johnny Fever stax of wax Join Date: Feb 2004 Casino cash: $10004900	I agree with all of that. Poor Dick must be crying somewhere since he's not a genius/genious to anyone anymore. __________________ courtesy of BoneKrusher "Baseball? It's just a game. As simple as a ball and bat, yet as complex as the American spirit it symbolizes. It's a sport, a business and sometimes a religion." Ernie Harwell
Posts: 34,865

01-05-2005, 03:51 PM	#3
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4670478	We can only hope. "Help me Julian Peterson. You're my only hope." Shooting for mediocrity gets you nowhere. We should be shooting for perfection. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 278,041

01-05-2005, 03:58 PM	#4
ck_IN Feels so good. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	I like defense. I like dlinemen that blot out the sun. I like LB's that make Viking Beserkers nervous. I like CB's that think the ball has their name on it. I like safeties that make WR's pee their pants. That said, DV is right, and I'm a charter member DV hater. If our defense was high teens/low 20's we'd probably be in the playoffs right now instead of Denver. The question isn't 'where should our defense be?', the question is 'How can we get improvement in 1 of DV's 5yrs?'. I dont' think DV has a clue on that 2nd question. As for FA's I've no doubt that we'll sign someone. Most likely we'll sign 2 tier two FA's, probably a CB to replace Bartee and a LB to replace Barber but we'll be trading an old nickleback for a new nickleback and an average OLB for the same. I simply don't see us making that jump from high 20's/low 30's to low 20's. That opportunity has been wasted by DV's magical mystery drafts. __________________ As sweet as Tupelo Honey
Posts: 2,718

01-05-2005, 05:03 PM	#5
Wallcrawler How tall is this thing? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ground 0 for enema of US. Casino cash: $4222912	Dont be too stunned. Carl isnt just going to all of a sudden decide to pay the top tier talent the salary that they require to bring them here. He never has, and he never will. Hell, Priest Holmes won the rushing title during his one year tenure here, and was ripping defenses up left and right, and STILL had to threaten to sit out before he could get paid. Same thing with Tony Gonzalez. Carl hates to pay anyone, even when they excel for his team. There is very, very little hope that he will just drop some bigtime cash and get some real defensive talent in here. Look for maybe another sleeper pickup like Lional Dalton was, or something of that nature. Im not really seeing any blockbuster pickups for the Chiefs, even though there is going to be some outstanding talent in the defensive free agent pool again this offseason. The stadium is still filling up regularly, so there is no need for Carl to hit the panic button and actually pay out some money to make it look like he really is trying to improve the team just yet. Out of the big name free agent talent that is going to be available, how many of them do you actually believe will be wearing a Chiefs jersey at the end of Free Agency? One, maybe if there is an act of God. __________________ She did not open her eyes this morning. I don't know what else to say.
Posts: 6,933

01-05-2005, 05:18 PM	#7
Wallcrawler How tall is this thing? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ground 0 for enema of US. Casino cash: $4222912	Im not liking it any better than anyone else is. Wheres the FireCarlPeterson.com petition at? Ill sign that, and get everyone I know to sign it also. Ive questioned the front office's desire for a championship for a long time, because they just never go after anyone that could really give them a shot. Maybe its Lamar hunt. He's seen his superbowl victory, waaaay back in superbowl 4. Now he's just concerned with living to see the sun rise tomorrow. __________________ She did not open her eyes this morning. I don't know what else to say.
Posts: 6,933

01-05-2005, 05:49 PM	#8
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	settling for mediocrity as pretty much always been are problem we only need a decent defense we only need a decent QB we only need a decent RB all BS __________________
Posts: 95,626

01-05-2005, 06:01 PM	#9
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	I'll be the first to say it. **** Dick Vermeil. I can't take one more year of this.
Posts: 100,022

01-05-2005, 06:40 PM	#11
Mr. Christopher Starter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Casino cash: $10014105	THAT'S the problem. If DV would be aiming for having the #1 defense or even a top ten defensive unit in the league, instead of aiming for mediocrity, then we'd be looking forward to a playoff game or two this post season.
Posts: 545

01-05-2005, 06:48 PM	#12
The Red Death Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: St. Louis Casino cash: $10004950	The frustrating thing is that this is what they said at Arrowhead each of the last two years. When are these guys going to learn that when you aim for mediocrity you usually end up getting a lot less? Of course, last year is when the bold changes should have been made. Now, assuming there is a desire to improve the defense, the improvements will be severely inhibited by financial and salary cap restraints. I hate to agree with Whitlock, but he's right when he says Vermeil treats the defense with apathy. He cares about special teams far more than defense. Don't get me wrong, I love watching this offense, but I'm still in shock about how quickly the Chiefs' defense evaporated and that there has been little to no attempt to fix it. __________________
Posts: 62

01-05-2005, 06:49 PM	#13
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1942500	I'd like to see a quote somewhere where Vermeil has ever said he just hoped to be mediocre on defense... I'm not arguing the success of the defense or the success of player development, just when has anyone involved with this team ever said they just hope to reach mediocre status on defense? I know they've failed miserably but I've never heard Carl or DV or Robinson or Gunther or anybody actually mention they do not want this to be a top ten defense...
Posts: 54,962