Posnanski: There are reasons why Green has lost his touch

tk13 · 11-14-2005, 02:24 AM

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/13161105.htm

There are reasons Green has lost his golden touch

By JOE POSNANSKI

The Kansas City Star

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. — In the moments after this dud, Chiefs quarterback Trent Green either would not or could not say what went wrong. The Chiefs scored three points Sunday. Three measly points. The most prolific offense of the George W. Bush era never once drove within 15 yards of the Buffalo end zone.

Green had three interceptions, one fumble and was sacked six times, a losing lottery ticket in every state. The offense played its worst game since a meaningless mud-bowl game in Oakland back at the end of the wasted 2002 season.

“I’m confused,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said Sunday.

“I don’t know what it is,” Chiefs running back Tony Richardson said.

“Nope,” Chiefs running back Larry Johnson said. That’s all he said, in fact.

There was so much bewilderment and embarrassment after this 14-3 loss to Buffalo that even guard Brian Waters, one of the best guys in the NFL, did not want to talk. Heck, after this one, nobody knew what to say.

The focus of this fiasco was Green, who played his worst game with the Chiefs. Nothing went right for Green. He was harassed, sacked, baited and knocked down hard when an old teammate, London Fletcher, took a cheap shot after an interception. He had passes dropped. His timing was off. He tried to force one pass into triple coverage.

And there’s no hiding it: After three fairly golden seasons, Green is having a troubling year. He has thrown seven touchdown passes all season to go with six interceptions. He is not throwing the ball downfield. He is taking a beating. He has lost critical fumbles three weeks in a row. The Chiefs’ offense, for the first time in a long while, looks ordinary.

After Sunday’s game, Green either would not or could not say what’s happening.

“I’ll let you guys figure that out,” he said. “I’m not going to throw anyone under the bus.”

Well, we were never very good at guessing games, but heck, we’ll give it a try. For three years, 2002 to 2004, Chiefs offensive coordinator Al Saunders designed an offense that perfectly matched Trent Green’s talents. The Chiefs scored more points than any team in the NFL over that span, and they did it without a star wide receiver, without a breakaway running back, without a deep passing game.

So, how did they score so many points? Well, Priest Holmes was Superman. The Chiefs’ offensive line played better than any unit in the NFL. Tony Gonzalez gave Green a big target to hit on third down and around the goal line.

More than anything, the Chiefs’ offense played to Green’s strengths. He’s as smart and prepared as any quarterback in the NFL. Given time, he will find open receivers. He does not give up on plays. These are the things he does well. In an offense that protected him and gave him numerous options, Green played at a Pro Bowl level.

This year, of course, things are different.

1. Left tackle Willie Roaf, a future Hall of Famer, has played in only three full games. The Chiefs are simply not a very good offensive team without Roaf. They weren’t particularly good the year before he arrived, and they are averaging fewer than 19 points per game when he doesn’t start this year.

Without Roaf, the Chiefs have played a shell game with that offensive line, moving Jordan Black here, sliding John Welbourn there, and it hasn’t fooled anyone. Green has been sacked nine times the last two weeks. He has been hit many more times than that.

2. Priest Holmes is gone. I know everybody loves Larry Johnson’s talent, and I do, too. He’s bigger, faster, stronger. He ran for 132 yards on Sunday, he caught five passes, he chased down Buffalo’s Jeff Posey from way behind after a fumble. It was a terrific play.

He also whiffed on a blitzing linebacker, dropped a pass late, missed a big hole on a pitch play and ran for just 32 yards in 11 carries in the second half. I’m not picking on him — the guy put up great numbers again — but people do forget just how good Priest Holmes has been for this team. He was the team’s leading receiver, he blocked effectively, he scored touchdowns at a record rate, he picked up first downs, he set up his blocks like nobody else, and he seemed to make big plays whenever the Chiefs needed them. He was All-World.

That’s not so easily replaced.

3. The Chiefs’ wide-receiver problem suddenly looks glaring. It’s true that the Chiefs’ high-scoring offense has not counted much on wide receivers — they have not had a wide receiver catch more than 62 passes in the Vermeil era. But this year, it’s clear that defenses flood the middle, go after the quarterback and dare the Chiefs to throw deep.

The Chiefs have failed. Eddie Kennison has had his moments, but no No. 2 receiver has emerged. Green has thrown four touchdown passes to wide receivers, and three of those came late, when the game had already been decided.

Throw all those things together, and you can see why Trent Green has struggled so much. The offense no longer seems designed for him. They are not protecting him. They are not giving him choices. And suddenly his limitations — he’s not elusive, he does not have an overwhelming arm, he does not throw a great deep ball — are on display.

So what now? Well, this is the NFL, and things change quickly. If the Chiefs could win next week at Houston and score a bunch of points, everyone will feel good again. But make no mistake: This Buffalo game wasn’t just another loss. This was one of those games that can make players ask that grave question: “Are we any good?”

The answer to that question, the Magic 8 Ball would say, is “Hazy. Try again.”

ferrarispider95 · 11-14-2005, 02:55 AM

Good article

Eleazar · 11-14-2005, 06:53 AM

Of course he doesn't have a billion dollar arm. The guy was a 7th round draft pick.

I would have a hard time throwing too if I had to make the decision and do it in the 0.12 seconds of protection he's got to work with.

Extra Point · 11-14-2005, 07:17 AM

Pass protection was terrible.

wolfpack0735 · 11-14-2005, 07:19 AM

yea trent isnt as good this year but 3/4ths is the line,1/8th trent and the other 1/8th the WR`s. it is taking them a long time to get open. maybe because we dont have a #1 threat. when other teams can put their best CB on a TE then its a sad day for our WR`s.

ck_IN · 11-14-2005, 08:23 AM

Interesting that JW and Joe Po are saying basicly the same thing, which is more or less what some of the DV detractors have said from the beginning: This is a gimmick offense that only really works in a perfect environment. Green no longer has that hothouse environment and he's wilting.

This is where coaching is supposed to step in and make the difference. Our all pro LT is gone. Ok put in his backup, give him some TE help and run pass routes that minimize the exposure. Instead we pretend its business as usual and we act surprised at the results.

The league has caught up to DV's gimmick offense. DV's complete lack of player planning/development is starting to tell. Green, as good as he's been, is being exposed. We've built a team around the idea of win now and to hell with later which fit in with DV's 5 year show the world it was me and not Martz then retire again plan.

We're in for some pain gang, the rebuild will come sooner or later and DV/CP whistling past the graveyard won't change that.

Mecca · 11-14-2005, 08:34 AM

Are we becoming the Rams the season their line was horrible and got Warner killed? It's looking more and more like it every week.

FringeNC · 11-14-2005, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ck_IN

Interesting that JW and Joe Po are saying basicly the same thing, which is more or less what some of the DV detractors have said from the beginning: This is a gimmick offense that only really works in a perfect environment. Green no longer has that hothouse environment and he's wilting.

This is where coaching is supposed to step in and make the difference. Our all pro LT is gone. Ok put in his backup, give him some TE help and run pass routes that minimize the exposure. Instead we pretend its business as usual and we act surprised at the results.

The league has caught up to DV's gimmick offense. DV's complete lack of player planning/development is starting to tell. Green, as good as he's been, is being exposed. We've built a team around the idea of win now and to hell with later which fit in with DV's 5 year show the world it was me and not Martz then retire again plan.

We're in for some pain gang, the rebuild will come sooner or later and DV/CP whistling past the graveyard won't change that.

Gimmick offense? What offense WILL work with no WR and terrible pass protection? If it's a gimmick offense, why are more teams using it now?

**jAZ** · 11-14-2005, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extra Point

Pass protection was terrible.

I guess when you are a columnist, and have to write 1000 words, 4 words will never do.

This article wastes a whole lotta paper, a whole lotta words and a whole lotta my time expaining that the problem is the pass protection.

Red Dawg · 11-14-2005, 09:18 AM

No team can win if you can't protect the QB. If you are not great at protection then you had better have some WR's that get open quickly and we don't have that either. So we are screwed in both categories.

ck_IN · 11-14-2005, 09:21 AM

What offense WILL work with no WR and terrible pass protection?

The bigger question is why do the two above conditions exist? DV has had what five years now? Apparently we've hinged our offense around an aging LT with a history of leg problems who may have 2 more years left in him.

And to answer your question I don't see that many teams trying to run it. Mainly because they know the league has started to catch up with it.

**Lzen** · 11-14-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ck_IN

What offense WILL work with no WR and terrible pass protection?

The bigger question is why do the two above conditions exist? DV has had what five years now? Apparently we've hinged our offense around an aging LT with a history of leg problems who may have 2 more years left in him.

And to answer your question I don't see that many teams trying to run it. Mainly because they know the league has started to catch up with it.

Ok, that's nonsense. This offense is about as old as the NFL. It started with the Lions and Sid Gilman, if memory servers. The Chargers of the 80s made it work well. Heh, that's a good comparison, btw. All offense and no defense for years and that ended with no SB appearances. Very similar to the Chiefs. The Cowboys of the early to mid 90s ran this same offens to 3 SB titles. The late 90s to early 00s Rams rode this offense to 2 SB appearances with one SB title.

The Chiefs of the past 3-4 years have had the top offense in the league. Too bad they waited so long to fix their defense. Now the offense is showing signs of aging. Those injuries really show our lack of depth at certain positions.

All the teams I listed have played this same offense. They just used their own variations of it. But it was the same offense.

RINGLEADER · 11-14-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Are we becoming the Rams the season their line was horrible and got Warner killed? It's looking more and more like it every week.

Yep.

ct · 11-14-2005, 11:46 AM

Our offense has had one helluva run behind an incredible offensive line. Now it's fallen apart, all of it. Unless this O-Line gets fixed suddenly, and Denver comes back to us in the standings, this is NOT a playoff team.

Hell, I just layed out the remaining schedule of both KC and Denver, how we could tie them at 11-5 and KC wins the division. I thought the KC prediction was really a stretch, but it certainly did not involve a loss to Buffalo. And it sure as hell did not involve a pathetic showing like we saw yesterday.

It ain't over, but it don't look good...

FringeNC · 11-14-2005, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ck_IN

What offense WILL work with no WR and terrible pass protection?

The bigger question is why do the two above conditions exist? DV has had what five years now? Apparently we've hinged our offense around an aging LT with a history of leg problems who may have 2 more years left in him.

And to answer your question I don't see that many teams trying to run it. Mainly because they know the league has started to catch up with it.

To me, it's the West Coast offense that the league has caught up to....It used to dominate.

11-14-2005, 02:24 AM
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1892500	Posnanski: There are reasons why Green has lost his touch http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/13161105.htm There are reasons Green has lost his golden touch By JOE POSNANSKI The Kansas City Star ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. — In the moments after this dud, Chiefs quarterback Trent Green either would not or could not say what went wrong. The Chiefs scored three points Sunday. Three measly points. The most prolific offense of the George W. Bush era never once drove within 15 yards of the Buffalo end zone. Green had three interceptions, one fumble and was sacked six times, a losing lottery ticket in every state. The offense played its worst game since a meaningless mud-bowl game in Oakland back at the end of the wasted 2002 season. “I’m confused,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said Sunday. “I don’t know what it is,” Chiefs running back Tony Richardson said. “Nope,” Chiefs running back Larry Johnson said. That’s all he said, in fact. There was so much bewilderment and embarrassment after this 14-3 loss to Buffalo that even guard Brian Waters, one of the best guys in the NFL, did not want to talk. Heck, after this one, nobody knew what to say. The focus of this fiasco was Green, who played his worst game with the Chiefs. Nothing went right for Green. He was harassed, sacked, baited and knocked down hard when an old teammate, London Fletcher, took a cheap shot after an interception. He had passes dropped. His timing was off. He tried to force one pass into triple coverage. And there’s no hiding it: After three fairly golden seasons, Green is having a troubling year. He has thrown seven touchdown passes all season to go with six interceptions. He is not throwing the ball downfield. He is taking a beating. He has lost critical fumbles three weeks in a row. The Chiefs’ offense, for the first time in a long while, looks ordinary. After Sunday’s game, Green either would not or could not say what’s happening. “I’ll let you guys figure that out,” he said. “I’m not going to throw anyone under the bus.” Well, we were never very good at guessing games, but heck, we’ll give it a try. For three years, 2002 to 2004, Chiefs offensive coordinator Al Saunders designed an offense that perfectly matched Trent Green’s talents. The Chiefs scored more points than any team in the NFL over that span, and they did it without a star wide receiver, without a breakaway running back, without a deep passing game. So, how did they score so many points? Well, Priest Holmes was Superman. The Chiefs’ offensive line played better than any unit in the NFL. Tony Gonzalez gave Green a big target to hit on third down and around the goal line. More than anything, the Chiefs’ offense played to Green’s strengths. He’s as smart and prepared as any quarterback in the NFL. Given time, he will find open receivers. He does not give up on plays. These are the things he does well. In an offense that protected him and gave him numerous options, Green played at a Pro Bowl level. This year, of course, things are different. 1. Left tackle Willie Roaf, a future Hall of Famer, has played in only three full games. The Chiefs are simply not a very good offensive team without Roaf. They weren’t particularly good the year before he arrived, and they are averaging fewer than 19 points per game when he doesn’t start this year. Without Roaf, the Chiefs have played a shell game with that offensive line, moving Jordan Black here, sliding John Welbourn there, and it hasn’t fooled anyone. Green has been sacked nine times the last two weeks. He has been hit many more times than that. 2. Priest Holmes is gone. I know everybody loves Larry Johnson’s talent, and I do, too. He’s bigger, faster, stronger. He ran for 132 yards on Sunday, he caught five passes, he chased down Buffalo’s Jeff Posey from way behind after a fumble. It was a terrific play. He also whiffed on a blitzing linebacker, dropped a pass late, missed a big hole on a pitch play and ran for just 32 yards in 11 carries in the second half. I’m not picking on him — the guy put up great numbers again — but people do forget just how good Priest Holmes has been for this team. He was the team’s leading receiver, he blocked effectively, he scored touchdowns at a record rate, he picked up first downs, he set up his blocks like nobody else, and he seemed to make big plays whenever the Chiefs needed them. He was All-World. That’s not so easily replaced. 3. The Chiefs’ wide-receiver problem suddenly looks glaring. It’s true that the Chiefs’ high-scoring offense has not counted much on wide receivers — they have not had a wide receiver catch more than 62 passes in the Vermeil era. But this year, it’s clear that defenses flood the middle, go after the quarterback and dare the Chiefs to throw deep. The Chiefs have failed. Eddie Kennison has had his moments, but no No. 2 receiver has emerged. Green has thrown four touchdown passes to wide receivers, and three of those came late, when the game had already been decided. Throw all those things together, and you can see why Trent Green has struggled so much. The offense no longer seems designed for him. They are not protecting him. They are not giving him choices. And suddenly his limitations — he’s not elusive, he does not have an overwhelming arm, he does not throw a great deep ball — are on display. So what now? Well, this is the NFL, and things change quickly. If the Chiefs could win next week at Houston and score a bunch of points, everyone will feel good again. But make no mistake: This Buffalo game wasn’t just another loss. This was one of those games that can make players ask that grave question: “Are we any good?” The answer to that question, the Magic 8 Ball would say, is “Hazy. Try again.”
Posts: 54,967

11-14-2005, 02:55 AM	#2
ferrarispider95 She reads at a sophomore level Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: KANSAS Casino cash: $10004945	Good article
Posts: 1,493

11-14-2005, 06:53 AM	#3
Eleazar Beyond the Rapids Join Date: May 2003 Location: Langley, VA Casino cash: $-370000	Of course he doesn't have a billion dollar arm. The guy was a 7th round draft pick. I would have a hard time throwing too if I had to make the decision and do it in the 0.12 seconds of protection he's got to work with.
Posts: 80,659

11-14-2005, 07:17 AM	#4
Extra Point MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Prairie Village, KS Casino cash: $10004900	Pass protection was terrible. __________________ "Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." --Satchel Paige
Posts: 7,845

11-14-2005, 07:19 AM	#5
wolfpack0735 buttnaked is the only way tobe Join Date: May 2001 Location: B/T lost & nowhere in ks. Casino cash: $10008827	yea trent isnt as good this year but 3/4ths is the line,1/8th trent and the other 1/8th the WR`s. it is taking them a long time to get open. maybe because we dont have a #1 threat. when other teams can put their best CB on a TE then its a sad day for our WR`s. __________________ Three most important things in life... Chiefs football, Beer and women, all in that order!! Adopt - A - Chief Willie Lanier Old enough to remember WHAT a Super Bowl is!!
Posts: 534

11-14-2005, 08:23 AM	#6
ck_IN Feels so good. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	Interesting that JW and Joe Po are saying basicly the same thing, which is more or less what some of the DV detractors have said from the beginning: This is a gimmick offense that only really works in a perfect environment. Green no longer has that hothouse environment and he's wilting. This is where coaching is supposed to step in and make the difference. Our all pro LT is gone. Ok put in his backup, give him some TE help and run pass routes that minimize the exposure. Instead we pretend its business as usual and we act surprised at the results. The league has caught up to DV's gimmick offense. DV's complete lack of player planning/development is starting to tell. Green, as good as he's been, is being exposed. We've built a team around the idea of win now and to hell with later which fit in with DV's 5 year show the world it was me and not Martz then retire again plan. We're in for some pain gang, the rebuild will come sooner or later and DV/CP whistling past the graveyard won't change that. __________________ As sweet as Tupelo Honey
Posts: 2,718

11-14-2005, 08:34 AM	#7
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2527050	Are we becoming the Rams the season their line was horrible and got Warner killed? It's looking more and more like it every week.
Posts: 110,994

11-14-2005, 09:18 AM	#10
Red Dawg Going home eventually Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $4722858	No team can win if you can't protect the QB. If you are not great at protection then you had better have some WR's that get open quickly and we don't have that either. So we are screwed in both categories. __________________ If you're not first you're last!
Posts: 30,436

11-14-2005, 09:21 AM	#11
ck_IN Feels so good. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	What offense WILL work with no WR and terrible pass protection? The bigger question is why do the two above conditions exist? DV has had what five years now? Apparently we've hinged our offense around an aging LT with a history of leg problems who may have 2 more years left in him. And to answer your question I don't see that many teams trying to run it. Mainly because they know the league has started to catch up with it. __________________ As sweet as Tupelo Honey
Posts: 2,718

11-14-2005, 11:46 AM	#14
ct u b illian Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: DooDah Casino cash: $10009436	Our offense has had one helluva run behind an incredible offensive line. Now it's fallen apart, all of it. Unless this O-Line gets fixed suddenly, and Denver comes back to us in the standings, this is NOT a playoff team. Hell, I just layed out the remaining schedule of both KC and Denver, how we could tie them at 11-5 and KC wins the division. I thought the KC prediction was really a stretch, but it certainly did not involve a loss to Buffalo. And it sure as hell did not involve a pathetic showing like we saw yesterday. It ain't over, but it don't look good...
Posts: 7,287