If this is true, then Vick is done. Warning: Very graphic and sick

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-18-2007, 01:46 AM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ick/index.html

The indictment handed down Tuesday against Falcons quarterback Michael Vick and three others describes in detail how they procured a property in Virginia for the purpose of staging dogfights, bought dogs, and then fought them there and in several other states over a six-year period. With at least three cooperating witnesses providing the details, federal authorities compiled a detailed case that traces the birth and rise of Bad Newz Kennels.

But not a single line in the 18-page indictment will generate more rage toward Vick and the others charged -- Purnell A. Peace, Quanis L. Phillips and Tony Taylor -- than a sentence near the end. It reads: "In or about April of 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick executed approximately eight dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."

In interviews I conducted for an earlier story on the subculture of dogfighting and Vick's involvement, several experts described to me the process of "rolling" dogs. Owners take young dogs, usually puppies, and put them in an enclosed area and see how they react. They prod the dogs and urge them to get angry. If a dog shows aggression toward another dog, that's a positive. If a dog is timid, it is useless. Some fighters give away puppies that don't show the required "gameness." Other owners don't bother with the trouble of finding them a home and simply kill them.

Vick and his three associates, according to the indictment, fall in the latter category. Federal investigators allege that Vick is a murderer of dogs who weren't willing to fight for his enjoyment. Even worse, his actions appear more sinister than most professional dogfighters.

"If you want to kill a dog, why exert the energy to slam him into the ground or drown him? Why not just shoot him, which is the most common method?" says John Goodwin, dogfighting expert for the Humane Society of the United States. "That is insane. These guys, if they did that, have serious problems."

Vick's problems would seem to be plentiful now that he has gone from a person of interest in local and federal investigations to one of four men charged in U.S. District Court in Richmond, Va. with conspiracy to commit interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal-fighting venture. On the Travel Act portion of the conspiracy charges, he faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. The dogfighting charges carry a possible sentence of one year in prison and $100,000 fine or both.

Still, even with the gravity of the crimes alleged, Vick's most serious problem would seem to be one of perception. If one believes the allegations against him, Vick is neither a novice dogfighter nor or a hobbyist who dipped his toe into the sport briefly. The indictment alleges that Vick is a professional dogfighter who"sponsored" more than two dozen dogfights. He is not, as he previously said, someone who merely trusted the wrong people. Rather, he is the face of a bloodsport that the majority of NFL fans probably didn't know existed until the property he owned on Moonlight Road was raided in late April. And, now, he becomes the ultimate test for NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and his new discipline policy.

"We expect the Falcons and the NFL to take prompt action," Goodwin says. "The message needs to be sent to other athletes who have been involved or are involved in dogfighting that this can be a career ender."

It remains to be seen how the Falcons or the NFL will act, but if they read all 18 pages of the indictment, one can be sure they will no longer give Vick the benefit of the doubt.

According to the indictment, Vick, who was also known as "Ookie," and the three others set out to start a kennel of American Pit Bull Terriers for the purpose of fighting them around 2001. Around May of that year, the indictment states that Taylor picked the property on 1915 Moonlight Road near Smithfield, Va., and Vick paid $34,000 for the land. In that same year, Vick and the other three men began acquiring fighting dogs, purchasing animals in Virginia and other states. There were four dogs from an individual in North Carolina, another dog bought in New York, and six dogs and six puppies from an individual in Richmond, Va.

According to the indictment, in Sept. 2001, Vick and two others purchased four pit bulls puppies, including a male named "Magic" for $1,000 from an individual who has since testified before the grand jury. In 2002, Vick, accompanied by Peace, purchased four pit bulls from another person in Virginia who the indictment says is now a cooperating witness for the government.

The indictment states that in early 2002, the quartet established "Bad Newz Kennels" and even obtained shirts and headbands that "promoted their affiliation" with that organization. They also began renovation of the Moonlight Road property: building a fence to shield the portion where dogfights allegedly occurred and sheds to house the dogs and training equipment. They buried car axles in the woods so they could tie the dogs to them.

Around the summer of 2002, the four men began "rolling" dogs, according to the indictment. At that time, Peace, Phillips and Taylor each killed at least one dog that proved to be a poor fighter. Peace shot a dog with a .22 caliber pistol. Phillips also shot a dog. Taylor, the indictment alleges, executed at least two dogs that didn't test well, shooting one and electrocuting at least one other.

Federal investigators say the quartet began attending fights as early as 2002, and in that year, Vick is first said to have sponsored a fight, between "Zebro" and "Maniac" at the Moonlight Road property for a purse totaling $2,000.

One of the more detailed descriptions of a fight involves a bout in March 2003. A professional fighter, now cooperating with the government, traveled from North Carolina to a location near Blackstone, Va., with his 35-pound female pit bull and a 47-pound male pit bull. The purse was $13,000 a side for the fight involving the female and $10,000 for the fight between the males. According to the indictment, Peace and Vick "represented" Bad Newz Kennels at those fights, which Bad Newz Kennels lost. "Peace, after consulting with Vick about the losing female pit bull's condition, executed the dog by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal," the indictment reads.

The fate of the male dog owned by Bad Newz is not mentioned in the indictment, but it does state that following that fight, "Vick retrieved a book bag containing approximately $23,000 in cash" and gave it to the winning owner, who is listed as "Cooperating Witness #2" in the indictment.

There are other allegations like those, other unfathomable acts. At times, the indictment can be difficult to read. Vick allegedly got into dogfighting in 2001 and fought dogs as recently as April. In other words, federal investigators say he's been a dogfighter as long as he's been an NFL quarterback.

After reading and rereading the allegations against Vick, it's easy to imagine a future where he is neither.

Buns · 07-18-2007, 01:54 AM

Congratulations Mike Vick, you just went from NFL QB to prison yard ho

DenverChief · 07-18-2007, 02:09 AM

I have zero tolerance for people who abuse pets.....

Mecca · 07-18-2007, 02:11 AM

And because he's one of the faces of the NFL.....I'd almost bet money he is not suspended until an actual conviction is handed out.....

This whole clean up the NFL thing is more about perception than reality...they made an example of Pacman Jones.......with Vick they'll wait obviously for their own reasons as a league.

SPchief · 07-18-2007, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

And because he's one of the faces of the NFL.....I'd almost bet money he is not suspended until an actual conviction is handed out.....

This whole clean up the NFL thing is more about perception than reality...they made an example of Pacman Jones.......with Vick they'll wait obviously for their own reasons as a league.

Vick is no longer a face of the NFL.

**TinyEvel** · 07-18-2007, 02:22 AM

If any of this is remotely true, then, nuthooks would be too lenient a punishment.

Mecca · 07-18-2007, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPchief

Vick is no longer a face of the NFL.

This is true...but I believe there will be a double standard.....just like I believe Jared Allen benefited from one.

SPchief · 07-18-2007, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

This is true...but I believe there will be a double standard.....just like I believe Jared Allen benefited from one.

Tee it up a little higher for the DC crowd.

tk13 · 07-18-2007, 02:32 AM

Jared Allen was a blip on the radar screen compared to what this thing is gonna turn into. This is going to be national news.

Mecca · 07-18-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

Jared Allen was a blip on the radar screen compared to what this thing is gonna turn into. This is going to be national news.

I wasn't saying it was in the same ballpark but it's already an example to me of the league not being consistent on this thing. That's basically my thing with the NFL right now be consistent and something tells me they won't be....

They have every reason to suspend Vick but I'm not sure they will because that's how things go.

SPchief · 07-18-2007, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I wasn't saying it was in the same ballpark but it's already an example to me of the league not being consistent on this thing. That's basically my thing with the NFL right now be consistent and something tells me they won't be....

They have every reason to suspend Vick but I'm not sure they will because that's how things go.

You're wrong.

Mecca · 07-18-2007, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPchief

You're wrong.

We'll see, I hope I'm wrong on this.....

Wait wrong on the double standard thing or wrong on the Vick thing?

SPchief · 07-18-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

We'll see, I hope I'm wrong on this.....

Wait wrong on the double standard thing or wrong on the Vick thing?

The Vick thing

ClevelandBronco · 07-18-2007, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

And because he's one of the faces of the NFL.....I'd almost bet money he is not suspended until an actual conviction is handed out.....

This whole clean up the NFL thing is more about perception than reality...they made an example of Pacman Jones.......with Vick they'll wait obviously for their own reasons as a league.

I think you're right. I hope we're wrong.

Mile High Mania · 07-18-2007, 04:42 AM

I always expect the double standard, but this isn't the typical player infraction. This isn't something that we've really seen before. This isn't a DUI, drug charge or anything like that... this is a topic that carries a huge black eye and the league has to walk a fine line here.

I don't think they're going to be able to get away with the double standard thing... this will not go away. Vick will have to be proven innocent before this begins to fade.

07-18-2007, 01:46 AM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	If this is true, then Vick is done. Warning: Very graphic and sick http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ick/index.html The indictment handed down Tuesday against Falcons quarterback Michael Vick and three others describes in detail how they procured a property in Virginia for the purpose of staging dogfights, bought dogs, and then fought them there and in several other states over a six-year period. With at least three cooperating witnesses providing the details, federal authorities compiled a detailed case that traces the birth and rise of Bad Newz Kennels. But not a single line in the 18-page indictment will generate more rage toward Vick and the others charged -- Purnell A. Peace, Quanis L. Phillips and Tony Taylor -- than a sentence near the end. It reads: "In or about April of 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick executed approximately eight dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground." In interviews I conducted for an earlier story on the subculture of dogfighting and Vick's involvement, several experts described to me the process of "rolling" dogs. Owners take young dogs, usually puppies, and put them in an enclosed area and see how they react. They prod the dogs and urge them to get angry. If a dog shows aggression toward another dog, that's a positive. If a dog is timid, it is useless. Some fighters give away puppies that don't show the required "gameness." Other owners don't bother with the trouble of finding them a home and simply kill them. Vick and his three associates, according to the indictment, fall in the latter category. Federal investigators allege that Vick is a murderer of dogs who weren't willing to fight for his enjoyment. Even worse, his actions appear more sinister than most professional dogfighters. "If you want to kill a dog, why exert the energy to slam him into the ground or drown him? Why not just shoot him, which is the most common method?" says John Goodwin, dogfighting expert for the Humane Society of the United States. "That is insane. These guys, if they did that, have serious problems." Vick's problems would seem to be plentiful now that he has gone from a person of interest in local and federal investigations to one of four men charged in U.S. District Court in Richmond, Va. with conspiracy to commit interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal-fighting venture. On the Travel Act portion of the conspiracy charges, he faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. The dogfighting charges carry a possible sentence of one year in prison and $100,000 fine or both. Still, even with the gravity of the crimes alleged, Vick's most serious problem would seem to be one of perception. If one believes the allegations against him, Vick is neither a novice dogfighter nor or a hobbyist who dipped his toe into the sport briefly. The indictment alleges that Vick is a professional dogfighter who"sponsored" more than two dozen dogfights. He is not, as he previously said, someone who merely trusted the wrong people. Rather, he is the face of a bloodsport that the majority of NFL fans probably didn't know existed until the property he owned on Moonlight Road was raided in late April. And, now, he becomes the ultimate test for NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and his new discipline policy. "We expect the Falcons and the NFL to take prompt action," Goodwin says. "The message needs to be sent to other athletes who have been involved or are involved in dogfighting that this can be a career ender." It remains to be seen how the Falcons or the NFL will act, but if they read all 18 pages of the indictment, one can be sure they will no longer give Vick the benefit of the doubt. According to the indictment, Vick, who was also known as "Ookie," and the three others set out to start a kennel of American Pit Bull Terriers for the purpose of fighting them around 2001. Around May of that year, the indictment states that Taylor picked the property on 1915 Moonlight Road near Smithfield, Va., and Vick paid $34,000 for the land. In that same year, Vick and the other three men began acquiring fighting dogs, purchasing animals in Virginia and other states. There were four dogs from an individual in North Carolina, another dog bought in New York, and six dogs and six puppies from an individual in Richmond, Va. According to the indictment, in Sept. 2001, Vick and two others purchased four pit bulls puppies, including a male named "Magic" for $1,000 from an individual who has since testified before the grand jury. In 2002, Vick, accompanied by Peace, purchased four pit bulls from another person in Virginia who the indictment says is now a cooperating witness for the government. The indictment states that in early 2002, the quartet established "Bad Newz Kennels" and even obtained shirts and headbands that "promoted their affiliation" with that organization. They also began renovation of the Moonlight Road property: building a fence to shield the portion where dogfights allegedly occurred and sheds to house the dogs and training equipment. They buried car axles in the woods so they could tie the dogs to them. Around the summer of 2002, the four men began "rolling" dogs, according to the indictment. At that time, Peace, Phillips and Taylor each killed at least one dog that proved to be a poor fighter. Peace shot a dog with a .22 caliber pistol. Phillips also shot a dog. Taylor, the indictment alleges, executed at least two dogs that didn't test well, shooting one and electrocuting at least one other. Federal investigators say the quartet began attending fights as early as 2002, and in that year, Vick is first said to have sponsored a fight, between "Zebro" and "Maniac" at the Moonlight Road property for a purse totaling $2,000. One of the more detailed descriptions of a fight involves a bout in March 2003. A professional fighter, now cooperating with the government, traveled from North Carolina to a location near Blackstone, Va., with his 35-pound female pit bull and a 47-pound male pit bull. The purse was $13,000 a side for the fight involving the female and $10,000 for the fight between the males. According to the indictment, Peace and Vick "represented" Bad Newz Kennels at those fights, which Bad Newz Kennels lost. "Peace, after consulting with Vick about the losing female pit bull's condition, executed the dog by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal," the indictment reads. The fate of the male dog owned by Bad Newz is not mentioned in the indictment, but it does state that following that fight, "Vick retrieved a book bag containing approximately $23,000 in cash" and gave it to the winning owner, who is listed as "Cooperating Witness #2" in the indictment. There are other allegations like those, other unfathomable acts. At times, the indictment can be difficult to read. Vick allegedly got into dogfighting in 2001 and fought dogs as recently as April. In other words, federal investigators say he's been a dogfighter as long as he's been an NFL quarterback. After reading and rereading the allegations against Vick, it's easy to imagine a future where he is neither.
Posts: 88,960

07-18-2007, 02:09 AM	#3
DenverChief MVP Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rocky Ford Casino cash: $5949867	I have zero tolerance for people who abuse pets.....
Posts: 16,143

07-18-2007, 02:11 AM	#4
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2617050	And because he's one of the faces of the NFL.....I'd almost bet money he is not suspended until an actual conviction is handed out..... This whole clean up the NFL thing is more about perception than reality...they made an example of Pacman Jones.......with Vick they'll wait obviously for their own reasons as a league.
Posts: 110,936

07-18-2007, 02:22 AM	#6
TinyEvel Just a li'l Evel Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bald. Goatee. Jorts. Casino cash: $5407131	If any of this is remotely true, then, nuthooks would be too lenient a punishment.
Posts: 11,810

07-18-2007, 02:32 AM	#9
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1982500	Jared Allen was a blip on the radar screen compared to what this thing is gonna turn into. This is going to be national news.
Posts: 54,946

07-18-2007, 01:54 AM	#2
Buns BUNS <3 2PM Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV Casino cash: $4131989	Congratulations Mike Vick, you just went from NFL QB to prison yard ho
Posts: 1,489

07-18-2007, 04:42 AM	#15
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3677229	I always expect the double standard, but this isn't the typical player infraction. This isn't something that we've really seen before. This isn't a DUI, drug charge or anything like that... this is a topic that carries a huge black eye and the league has to walk a fine line here. I don't think they're going to be able to get away with the double standard thing... this will not go away. Vick will have to be proven innocent before this begins to fade. __________________
Posts: 30,287