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View Poll Results: Two part question - Answer each part without looking at your neighbor's paper.
Part 1. Which of these teams has the STRONGEST QB history over the past 50 years? 1 3.13%
Miami 12 37.50%
New England 17 53.13%
NY Giants 3 9.38%
Oakland 0 0%
Part 2. Which of these teams has the WEAKEST QB history over the past 50 years? 1 3.13%
Miami 3 9.38%
New England 0 0%
NY Giants 5 15.63%
Oakland 22 68.75%
I wouldn't vote for any of these pencil-necked geeks. 3 9.38%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-22-2016, 12:54 PM  
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Four more teams. Which is strongest at QB and which is weakest?

Miami

Dan Marino - 16
Bob Griese - 12
Ryan Tannehill - 4 (and current starter)
Jay Fiedler - 4
David Woodley - 3
Chad Henne - 2
Matt Moore - 1
Chad Pennington - 1
Cleo Lemon - 1
Joey Harrington - 1
Gus Frerotte - 1
A.J. Feeley - 1
Scott Mitchell - 1
Earl Morrell - 1
Dick Wood (yes, Dick Wood) - 1

The Dolphins produced 18 pro bowls during this period, led by Dan Marino with 9.

New England

Tom Brady - 14 seasons (and current starter)
Steve Grogan - 11
Drew Bledsoe - 8
Jim Plunkett - 4
Tony Eason - 3
Hugh Millen - 2
Babe Parilli - 2 (led team for 6 seasons, but only 2 since 1966)
Matt Cassel - 1
Marc Wilson - 1
Doug Flutie - 1
Joe Kapp - 1
Mike Taliafarro - 1
Tom Sherman - 1

The Patriots have produced 16 pro bowls, led by Tom Brady with 11.*

NY Giants

Eli Manning - 11 seasons, and current starter since he whined and threw a tantrum to leave San Diego.
Phil Simms - 11
Kerry Collins - 5
Fran Tarkenton - 5
Dave Brown - 3
Craig Morton - 3
Danny Kanell - 2
Jeff Hostetler - 2
Scott Brunner - 2
Joe Pisarcik - 2
Norm Snead - 2
Kurt Warner - 1
Gary Wood - 1

The Giants produced 11 pro bowlers, led by Fran Tarkenton and Eli Manning with 4 each.

Oakland

Ken Stabler - 7
Daryle Lamonica - 6
Rich Gannon - 5
Jeff Hostetler - 4
Jay Schroeder - 4
Marc Wilson - 4
Jim Plunkett - 4
Derek Carr - 2 (and current starter)
Carson Palmer - 2
Jamarcus Russell - 2
Kerry Collins - 2
Terrelle Pryor - 1
Jason Campbell - 1
Daunte Culpepper - 1
Andrew Walter - 1
Donald Hollas - 1
Jeff George - 1
Steve Beuerlein - 1
Tom Flores - 1 (led the team for 5 seasons, but only 1 since 1966)

The Raiders produced 15 pro bowls, led by Lamonica, Stabler, and Gannon with four each.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:06 PM   #2
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When I compare these teams, Miami and New England are clearly stronger than New York and Oakland.

On the weaker end, Tarkenton was the best QB of the lot. Add in solid years by Simms and generally Manning, and I think the Giants beat the shorter-tenured solid QBs of Oakland. Oakland is the weakest of the group.

On the stronger end, it's really close. Would I rather have 16 years of Marino or 14 years of Brady? Marino, but it's close. Would I rather have 12 years of Griese or 8 of Bledsoe and 4 of Plunkett? Griese, but it's close. But after that, the Dolphins have nothing other than Tannehill and one year of Earl Morrell. The Patriots don't have much, either, but they've got a year of Flutie and 11 years of stability with Steve Grogan. Part of me wants to punish New England for sticking with Grogan for 11 years. Seriously? In a decade you couldn't even try to do better?

This is really tough, but I'd probably go Miami by a hair.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:13 PM   #3
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When I compare these teams, Miami and New England are clearly stronger than New York and Oakland.

On the weaker end, Tarkenton was the best QB of the lot. Add in solid years by Simms and generally Manning, and I think the Giants beat the shorter-tenured solid QBs of Oakland. Oakland is the weakest of the group.

On the stronger end, it's really close. Would I rather have 16 years of Marino or 14 years of Brady? Marino, but it's close. Would I rather have 12 years of Griese or 8 of Bledsoe and 4 of Plunkett? Griese, but it's close. But after that, the Dolphins have nothing other than Tannehill and one year of Earl Morrell. The Patriots don't have much, either, but they've got a year of Flutie and 11 years of stability with Steve Grogan. Part of me wants to punish New England for sticking with Grogan for 11 years. Seriously? In a decade you couldn't even try to do better?

This is really tough, but I'd probably go Miami by a hair.

I agree with all of your analysis, pretty much, but want to comment on Grogan. He was drafted in 1975, replacing Plunkett (who was not good with NE) and was the de facto starter until 1973 (8 years, not 11) when the Pats drafted Tony Eason (not Dan Marino, unfortunately) to replace him. From there until the end of his career, the Patriots were definitely TRYING (and failing) to upgrade the position.

And Grogan certainly wasn't great, but he was a very above average runner, and on Patriots teams with ridiculous offensive lines and with great running backs, he enhanced the threat. The 1978 Patriots team to this day (and probably forever given the nature of the NFL now) holds the records for most running yardage in a season -- 3,165. That team didn't have a single runner with more than 800 yards, and Grogan had over 500 of them.

For what little it is worth...
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:29 PM   #4
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I agree that it was close between New England and Miami. I could go either way, but ultimately went with the Patriots primarily because of Brady's Superbowl wins. So I would choose him over Marino. Griese over Bledsoe, but just barely. Not enough to tip the scales in Miami's favor.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
I agree with all of your analysis, pretty much, but want to comment on Grogan. He was drafted in 1975, replacing Plunkett (who was not good with NE) and was the de facto starter until 1973 (8 years, not 11) when the Pats drafted Tony Eason (not Dan Marino, unfortunately) to replace him. From there until the end of his career, the Patriots were definitely TRYING (and failing) to upgrade the position.

And Grogan certainly wasn't great, but he was a very above average runner, and on Patriots teams with ridiculous offensive lines and with great running backs, he enhanced the threat. The 1978 Patriots team to this day (and probably forever given the nature of the NFL now) holds the records for most running yardage in a season -- 3,165. That team didn't have a single runner with more than 800 yards, and Grogan had over 500 of them.

For what little it is worth...
I'll admit that most of my knowledge of Grogan came from football cards as a youth, and they only reported his passing stats. I recall him being a running type of QB (though wasn't he also pretty tall)?

I think Bledsoe is underrated as a QB in NFL annals. I figured he'd take some team to the Super Bowl at some point.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:47 PM   #6
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I'll admit that most of my knowledge of Grogan came from football cards as a youth, and they only reported his passing stats. I recall him being a running type of QB (though wasn't he also pretty tall)?
Yes, very tall for a running QB. 6'4". Until Cam Newton a few years ago, Grogan had the record for most rushing TDs by a QB in a season. 12. Before his body started breaking down about 4 or 5 years into his career, he averaged about 400 yards rushing per season.

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I think Bledsoe is underrated as a QB in NFL annals. I figured he'd take some team to the Super Bowl at some point.

Meh. Bledsoe had a million dollar arm and a ten cent head. He would lose you a game as quickly as he won it for you by his sometimes stupid decision-making.

He did take the Pats to the 1996 SB, the one they lost to Green Bay, with Parcells as HC, Curtis Martin at RB, and a solid overall team.

He never lived up to his #1 overall draft status, so Pats fans hate him for not being ultra-elite. He was definitely an above-average QB for most of his career, but his decision-making was atrocious at times.

There is, ultimately, a reason why the Pats won the SB **after** he got hurt in 2001, and then BB felt confident enough to trade him within the division to the Bills after that season, even though he wasn't even 30 years old at that point. In many ways, he relied on his arm instead of hard-work, and he wasn't as coachable as he should have been. I hear he's a very nice guy, so I dont' want to call him a spoiled prima donna, but let's just say he was the anointed one, and acted like it from time to time.
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Old 06-22-2016, 02:21 PM   #7
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I went with the Giants as having the best, specifically most consistent over the last 50 years. Giants have 4 SBs, 2 of them with Eli over Brady. Not a knock on Brady, but if you're looking at the bigger picture... what was NE really before Brady?
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Old 06-22-2016, 02:35 PM   #8
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I went with the Giants as having the best, specifically most consistent over the last 50 years. Giants have 4 SBs, 2 of them with Eli over Brady. Not a knock on Brady, but if you're looking at the bigger picture... what was NE really before Brady?

You're normally a pretty rational poster, but really? You're awarding the quarterback award to the Giants based on the fact that they won four SBs based almost entirely on awesome defenses.

Neither Phil Simms nor Eli are getting into the Hall of Fame. Actually, for what it's worth, Brady has double the Pro Bowls of the two of them put together (11 to 6), and more everything else in terms of awards (MVP, All Pro, etc.).

And this is football. Eli didn't beat Brady. The Giants DLine dominated the Pats OLine to win those SBs (plus Gronk was hurt in '11).

If you want to vote Miami over Pats, I can see it. Giants? errr....no.
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Old 06-23-2016, 06:34 AM   #9
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You're normally a pretty rational poster, but really? You're awarding the quarterback award to the Giants based on the fact that they won four SBs based almost entirely on awesome defenses.

Neither Phil Simms nor Eli are getting into the Hall of Fame. Actually, for what it's worth, Brady has double the Pro Bowls of the two of them put together (11 to 6), and more everything else in terms of awards (MVP, All Pro, etc.).

And this is football. Eli didn't beat Brady. The Giants DLine dominated the Pats OLine to win those SBs (plus Gronk was hurt in '11).

If you want to vote Miami over Pats, I can see it. Giants? errr....no.
Don't take it too personal, dude. Pro bowls are like American Idol voting now. I gave serious consideration to Miami and Brady had some badass defense help early on too, now. I get it - he's amazing, but this was a 50 year view and an opinion, it's ok.
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Old 06-23-2016, 09:54 AM   #10
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:00 AM   #11
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Don't take it too personal, dude. Pro bowls are like American Idol voting now. I gave serious consideration to Miami and Brady had some badass defense help early on too, now. I get it - he's amazing, but this was a 50 year view and an opinion, it's ok.
Are you implying that Matt Cassel's pro bowl appearance in 2010 was anything other than a well-deserved accolade for a fine season?
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:08 PM   #12
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Don't take it too personal, dude.
I don't, honest.


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Pro bowls are like American Idol voting now. I gave serious consideration to Miami and Brady had some badass defense help early on too, now. I get it - he's amazing, but this was a 50 year view and an opinion, it's ok.

Sure, but I'm trying to point out why your opinion doesn't make much sense.

Just by way of example, the Redskins (3 SB wins, with Joe Theisman (who is famous but not in the Hall of FAme and for good reason), Nobody #1 and Nobody #2) did not have better quarterbacks during the 80s than the Dolphins (zero SB wins, but Dan freaking Marino).

Heck, if you want to look at it from your point of view, the Patriots have GONE to an NFL-record-tying EIGHT SBs during the 50 years, while the Giants have only gone to five. Does that automatically give the Patriots the crown? I don't think so.

If you want to argue that Eli Manning is underrated and hey, those were pretty good five years from TArkenton that nobody remembers now, I would get that. To say "hey, 4 SBs over a longer period of time" makes no sense when the SBs were largely defense-oriented.

I don't hate the Giants any more than the Dolphins, and I'll gladly admit it's a pretty close call whether the Pats or 'phins had better QBs over the 50 years. But I wouldn't argue that the Patriots DEFENSES over 50 years are better than the Giants' DEFENSES, because I dont' think that makes much sense. Neither do I think Giants having better QBs than the Patriots makes much sense.
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:27 PM   #13
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I don't, honest.





Sure, but I'm trying to point out why your opinion doesn't make much sense.

Just by way of example, the Redskins (3 SB wins, with Joe Theisman (who is famous but not in the Hall of FAme and for good reason), Nobody #1 and Nobody #2) did not have better quarterbacks during the 80s than the Dolphins (zero SB wins, but Dan freaking Marino).

Heck, if you want to look at it from your point of view, the Patriots have GONE to an NFL-record-tying EIGHT SBs during the 50 years, while the Giants have only gone to five. Does that automatically give the Patriots the crown? I don't think so.

If you want to argue that Eli Manning is underrated and hey, those were pretty good five years from TArkenton that nobody remembers now, I would get that. To say "hey, 4 SBs over a longer period of time" makes no sense when the SBs were largely defense-oriented.

I don't hate the Giants any more than the Dolphins, and I'll gladly admit it's a pretty close call whether the Pats or 'phins had better QBs over the 50 years. But I wouldn't argue that the Patriots DEFENSES over 50 years are better than the Giants' DEFENSES, because I dont' think that makes much sense. Neither do I think Giants having better QBs than the Patriots makes much sense.
I might have added more if I thought it would develop into this... I wasn't basing it just on that alone. Comparing eras is always tricky, but fun.
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:51 PM   #14
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I might have added more if I thought it would develop into this... I wasn't basing it just on that alone. Comparing eras is always tricky, but fun.
True.

Scoreboard of this poll suggests you're in the vast minority on this, so I'll let the masses decide.
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