Arguing with a Co-Worker

[gblowfish]

Since Foles is going to start this week, around the office, the guys were talking about this history of Chiefs QBs. One guy said "I wish we could have Vermeil and Green now...we'd go all the way." I basically said Vermeil was a mediocre coach with his time in KC, and Green was not a successful Chiefs QB. "How can you say that? He's the best QB KC had since Dawson." I said that you could argue that Cassel was as good as Green. Both had taken the team to the playoffs, both had equal playoff wins (zero). Green lost to Indy twice; Cassel to Baltimore at Arrowhead.

The Elephant in the Room for KC has always been the QB position. Here's some stuff to chew on:

KC's all time playoff record is 9-16. No super bowl since the 1969 season. That's 47 years, but who's counting?

Last time Chiefs drafted a QB in the 1st round was Blackledge in 1983.

The Chiefs have always used cast offs from other teams. Here a list of former SF QBs that have started for KC:
DeBerg, Montana, Bono, Grbac, Smith.

Other team castoff QBs that have started for KC over the years:
Dawson, Jaworski, Vlasic, Krieg, Gannon, Moon, Green, Huard, Cassel, now Foles.

Other QBs the Chiefs have drafted since Blackledge, and the round:

1987 Doug Hudson 7th, 1988 Danny McManus, 8th round, 1989 Mike Elkins 2nd Round, 1992 Matt Blunden 2nd Round, 1994 Steve Matthews 7th Round, 1995 Steve Stenstrom 4th Round, 1997 Pat Barnes 4th Round, 2005 James Killian 7th Round, 2006 Brodie Croyle 3rd Round, 2011 Ricky Stanzi, 5th Round, 2014 Aaron Murray, 5th Round. 2016: Kevin Hogan, 5th Round.

And that doesn't count the free agents and other camp invitees like Trick Shot Tanney and Casey Printers.

Chiefs traded their first round pick in 2001 to the Rams for Trent Green. That's the closest they've had to a 1st round QB pick since Blackledge.

Someday, they're going to have to draft and develop a QB. It's been 33 years since the last one. That has to be a record in the NFL. I wonder how many #1 picks the Browns have spent on QBs since 1983?

[MTG#10]

Stopped reading at Cassel was as good as Green.

[ptlyon]

Originally Posted by MTG#10

Stopped reading at Cassel was as good as Green.

This

[siberian khatru]

Greg Hill was as good as Priest Holmes. Both took their teams to the playoffs, both had equal playoff wins (zero).

[seclark]

i'd take green over foles, but keep andy over dick.
sec

[KC_Lee]

At some point, the law of averages would favor the Chiefs drafting and developing a quality starting QB.

Doesn't even need to be in the first round. Montana (3rd) and Brady (6th I think) were not first round picks.

But since, over the past 25+ years, KC has either; A) hired HC that were established at one team for a long period of time and only want a vet QB (i.e. Marty, Reid) or B) hire a GM that is so beholden to a narrative that he's too blind to see the error of his ways (Fat Scot)

We can play the "What if...: game.
-- What if Green does not get his knee blown out while he's with the Rams? Would KC have gotten Warner instead??
-- What if Brady does not get his knee blown out (I'm sensing a trend here) thereby opening the door for Cassel?? Does KC take a QB with Fat Scott's first draft?

[Chiefnj2]

I didn't know Blowfish also suffered multiple concussions this weekend. Get better.

[Dayze]

everyone knows you win Championships with 1st round fatties and awesome tailgating.

[KranzDictum]

Bill Walsh talks about how Paul Brown taught him to draft a QB every year to have one to develop for your system. Doesn't have to be a high pick.

Guess which GM (hint: in the same division) who believes in drafting every year? 2nd Hint one of those late draft picks are paying off for them as they sit in 1st place right now!

Teams like kc and Chicago need to start drafting QB's and developing them rather than chasing needs. They don't even need to waste a 1st round pick, here is a thought rather than give someone else your 2nd round picks just ID a QB in draft and take him instead.

I get that Andy wanted to win now and thought he was a QB away, he just gave up too much for a guy who is more of an RB than QB.

I think you guys took one late this year, expect you to do it again. If you cut Alex next year his dead money drops to $7 Mill from $25. Then you have an extra roster spot for a young QB.

[kcjayhawks5]

Originally Posted by MTG#10

Stopped reading at Cassel was as good as Green.

This. Please tell me that you didn't actually say that Cassel was as good as Green out loud... In front of people that you work with.

[Chiefspants]

I agree with the fact that Vermeil was hugely overrated, but the analysis on Green seems a little unfair.

I would have loved to have seen Trent with any kind of a defense. Sometimes I wonder how far the 2005 team would have gone if we had made it to the playoffs - iirc, we seemed to be clicking as a unit down the stretch.

[Beef Supreme]

Vermeil was great...


on offense.

[MTG#10]

If Green would have even had the #16th ranked D we would have at the very least won a couple playoff games, likely a lot more. I dont think some people remember how extraordinarily bad that D was.

[threebag]

Bring in a bottle of Visine with Super Glue in it, gets them everytime.

[lawrenceRaider]

Originally Posted by kcjayhawks5

This. Please tell me that you didn't actually say that Cassel was as good as Green out loud... In front of people that you work with.

Green was a pretty good QB for KC. Hell of a lot better than Cassel. KC has even an average defense with the Green led offense and they likely make a superbowl.