How does winning SB change your opinion on...

[Couch-Potato]

How does winning a SB change your opinion on offseason plans for guys like...

OBJ
JuJu
Thornhill
MVS
Hardman
McKinnon
Clark
Wylie
Saunders

...Knowing that we have 12 picks in the draft.

[bigjosh]

OBJ-im on the fence. He is really good at times and other times he is a huge liability.

JuJu-resign him for 3 years and go draft/trade for a star potential receiver.

Thornhill-indifferent.

MVS- just keep him on his current contract.

Hardman- see ya

McKinnon- too old unfortunately. Wish andy could have had this dude in his prime

Clark-it was a good run. Time to let the shark swim away.

Wylie-played lights out in the bowl. Good for him, still need a new RT

Saunders- Khalin needs to stay, hopefully on the semi-cheap. He isnt a game wrecker, but he has become a great rotational piece.


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[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

How does winning a SB change your opinion on offseason plans for guys like...

OBJ
JuJu
Thornhill
MVS
Hardman
McKinnon
Clark
Wylie
Saunders

...Knowing that we have 12 picks in the draft.

OBJ: The team is going to have to pay OBJ, I'm afraid. It may be market re-setting, but I trust Veach to keep it flexible.

Credit to him. He bet on himself, and stayed healthy all year. He had a ton of difficulties, but eventually clamped down on them. He was nails in the Super Bowl, and part of the reason the Chiefs were able to run so effectively. At one point, Pacheco gained about 9 yards up the gut when Brown laid all 360 lbs of his weight into the DE and neighboring DT and washed them out almost single handedly. Pay him.

JuJu: This is going to be a very, very difficult call. I was increasingly convinced that the Chiefs wouldn't need him -- he only had 3 receptions in the AFC games, but then went off for 7 in the Super Bowl.

I would like to know what he's asking for. If he needs anything more than $12m/year, the Chiefs can replace his production. The power of this offense now is that it's flexible. It's Kelce + whatever WR the Chiefs need that week. It was Toney vs. the Jags, MVS vs. the Bengals, JuJu vs. the Eagles. Skyy is ascending, Watson is still a reliable option, and the Chiefs can return the entire TE corps if they want to. They have 11 draft picks. They've got options if JuJu is too much.

Thornhill: Welcome the compensatory pick you're going to get for him. He's priced himself out of Kansas City.

Another guy I'm very proud of. After struggling returning from injury, Spags remade the safety corps this year after letting Matthieu/Sorensen walk by making all three safeties interchangeable cogs. Thornhill was really, really good in coverage. He was solid in the slot. He's not built for playing in the box but he made a key tackle against the run in the Super Bowl. He's going to get paid, he deserves every penny. A fantastic rookie contract for Thornhill and he's going to make some dough somewhere else.

MVS: The Chiefs need to find a deep threat this offseason to learn the ropes, but MVS can stay for another year. If you exclude Mahomes, you could argue that MVS (and Chris Jones) deserve the MVP of the AFCCG.

Hardman: Mecole has done yeoman's work over the course of his entire rookie contract. He's not a full route tree guy but the value he brings with his horizontal speed and his work in Wasp is fantastic.

He was absolutely pricing himself out of Kansas City, but if the Chiefs offer him a 1 year contract for $5m, he'd probably take it. He'll do Hardman things for a year, and next offseason someone will pay him $30m over 3 years. Offer him the "let's get you some money" contract that JuJu signed, and I bet he takes it.

McKinnon: This guy provides so much balance and is such a perfect fit with Pacheco. I've said in other threads that the Chiefs should go get Samaje Perine, who is three years younger and gives them the power running that McKinnon can't provide.

But you know what McKinnon was wearing the last quarter of the season? The captain's badge.

This locker room loves him, the offense uses him perfectly. He's cheap. He belongs in Kansas City.

Clark: I'm at peace with whatever the Chiefs do here. But they cannot bring him back at his current cap number.

If they repeat what they did last year, and adjust his contract, I completely support that decision. The Chiefs should draft DE in the 1st, and have him learn for a year under Clark. If they cut Clark to just have maximum cap space with having to pay Jones and Brown (and Sneed), I'm with it. Both moves make perfect sense to me. I trust the front office.

Wylie: Wylie has now played in three Super Bowls, starting two at right tackle. He's gotten consistently better every single year, and peaked out by playing out of his mind against the Bengals and Eagles to help the team win it all.

We don't have the money for him. We're going to pay Brown, we're paying Thuney, and in a year we're going to pay Humphrey and Smith. We can't pay all five guys. And Wylie's going to get paid.

This guy has been a killer teammate and fantastic addition for the nastiness of the OL over the years. He's played three different positions, at various degrees of capability. He's a great dude, a hard worker, and has multiple rings. He is the saving grace of that 2018 draft class (even though we technically didn't draft him). Thank you, Andrew. I put respect on your name.

Saunders: Saunders can sit on the market while we hunt for better run pluggers, if a team wants to pay him, so be it.

If not, we can bring him back for a one-year deal like we did with Nnadi. Saunders is a rare athlete and worked his ass off this year to earn the snaps he did. He's also a fantastic dude, but he's got a leg out the door anyway based on his tweets from this year. Let the dude get paid if he can, if not he can come back and play 40% of our snaps for one last ride.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

OBJ: The team is going to have to pay OBJ, I'm afraid. It may be market re-setting, but I trust Veach to keep it flexible.

Credit to him. He bet on himself, and stayed healthy all year. He had a ton of difficulties, but eventually clamped down on them. He was nails in the Super Bowl, and part of the reason the Chiefs were able to run so effectively. At one point, Pacheco gained about 9 yards up the gut when Brown laid all 360 lbs of his weight into the DE and neighboring DT and washed them out almost single handedly. Pay him.

JuJu: This is going to be a very, very difficult call. I was increasingly convinced that the Chiefs wouldn't need him -- he only had 3 receptions in the AFC games, but then went off for 7 in the Super Bowl.

I would like to know what he's asking for. If he needs anything more than $12m/year, the Chiefs can replace his production. The power of this offense now is that it's flexible. It's Kelce + whatever WR the Chiefs need that week. It was Toney vs. the Jags, MVS vs. the Bengals, JuJu vs. the Eagles. Skyy is ascending, Watson is still a reliable option, and the Chiefs can return the entire TE corps if they want to. They have 11 draft picks. They've got options if JuJu is too much.

Thornhill: Welcome the compensatory pick you're going to get for him. He's priced himself out of Kansas City.

Another guy I'm very proud of. After struggling returning from injury, Spags remade the safety corps this year after letting Matthieu/Sorensen walk by making all three safeties interchangeable cogs. Thornhill was really, really good in coverage. He was solid in the slot. He's not built for playing in the box but he made a key tackle against the run in the Super Bowl. He's going to get paid, he deserves every penny. A fantastic rookie contract for Thornhill and he's going to make some dough somewhere else.

MVS: The Chiefs need to find a deep threat this offseason to learn the ropes, but MVS can stay for another year. If you exclude Mahomes, you could argue that MVS (and Chris Jones) deserve the MVP of the AFCCG.

Hardman: Mecole has done yeoman's work over the course of his entire rookie contract. He's not a full route tree guy but the value he brings with his horizontal speed and his work in Wasp is fantastic.

He was absolutely pricing himself out of Kansas City, but if the Chiefs offer him a 1 year contract for $5m, he'd probably take it. He'll do Hardman things for a year, and next offseason someone will pay him $30m over 3 years. Offer him the "let's get you some money" contract that JuJu signed, and I bet he takes it.

McKinnon: This guy provides so much balance and is such a perfect fit with Pacheco. I've said in other threads that the Chiefs should go get Samaje Perine, who is three years younger and gives them the power running that McKinnon can't provide.

But you know what McKinnon was wearing the last quarter of the season? The captain's badge.

This locker room loves him, the offense uses him perfectly. He's cheap. He belongs in Kansas City.

Clark: I'm at peace with whatever the Chiefs do here. But they cannot bring him back at his current cap number.

If they repeat what they did last year, and adjust his contract, I completely support that decision. The Chiefs should draft DE in the 1st, and have him learn for a year under Clark. If they cut Clark to just have maximum cap space with having to pay Jones and Brown (and Sneed), I'm with it. Both moves make perfect sense to me. I trust the front office.

Wylie: Wylie has now played in three Super Bowls, starting two at right tackle. He's gotten consistently better every single year, and peaked out by playing out of his mind against the Bengals and Eagles to help the team win it all.

We don't have the money for him. We're going to pay Brown, we're paying Thuney, and in a year we're going to pay Humphrey and Smith. We can't pay all five guys. And Wylie's going to get paid.

This guy has been a killer teammate and fantastic addition for the nastiness of the OL over the years. He's played three different positions, at various degrees of capability. He's a great dude, a hard worker, and has multiple rings. He is the saving grace of that 2018 draft class (even though we technically didn't draft him). Thank you, Andrew. I put respect on your name.

Saunders: Saunders can sit on the market while we hunt for better run pluggers, if a team wants to pay him, so be it.

If not, we can bring him back for a one-year deal like we did with Nnadi. Saunders is a rare athlete and worked his ass off this year to earn the snaps he did. He's also a fantastic dude, but he's got a leg out the door anyway based on his tweets from this year. Let the dude get paid if he can, if not he can come back and play 40% of our snaps for one last ride.

Agree with all of this and hope Wylie does get paid.

The moment with Wylie and Mahomes in the lock room was awesome.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Agree with all of this and hope Wylie does get paid.

The moment with Wylie and Mahomes in the lock room was awesome.

I missed it. What happened?

Re-post it if you can, I have to see it.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I missed it. What happened?

Re-post it if you can, I have to see it.

Very cool moment between Andrew Wylie and Patrick Mahomes in the Chiefs postgame locker room. Worth it to see the look on Wylie’s face. That’s a moment between teammates. Patrick can even make his friends speechless at times. pic.twitter.com/XjOdJMSvsQ

— Matt Derrick (@mattderrick) February 13, 2023

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I missed it. What happened?

Re-post it if you can, I have to see it.

Franchise picked me up there.

[milkshock]

I wouldnt bother re-signing JuJu unless he is dirt cheap. Even then I'm looking to draft a WR in the 2nd round.

[staylor26]

My immediate reaction to the game in terms of the draft/offseason was "now let's draft a ****ing WR in the 1st and keep this thing rolling".

[Toad]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

OBJ: The team is going to have to pay OBJ, I'm afraid. It may be market re-setting, but I trust Veach to keep it flexible.

Credit to him. He bet on himself, and stayed healthy all year. He had a ton of difficulties, but eventually clamped down on them. He was nails in the Super Bowl, and part of the reason the Chiefs were able to run so effectively. At one point, Pacheco gained about 9 yards up the gut when Brown laid all 360 lbs of his weight into the DE and neighboring DT and washed them out almost single handedly. Pay him.

JuJu: This is going to be a very, very difficult call. I was increasingly convinced that the Chiefs wouldn't need him -- he only had 3 receptions in the AFC games, but then went off for 7 in the Super Bowl.

I would like to know what he's asking for. If he needs anything more than $12m/year, the Chiefs can replace his production. The power of this offense now is that it's flexible. It's Kelce + whatever WR the Chiefs need that week. It was Toney vs. the Jags, MVS vs. the Bengals, JuJu vs. the Eagles. Skyy is ascending, Watson is still a reliable option, and the Chiefs can return the entire TE corps if they want to. They have 11 draft picks. They've got options if JuJu is too much.

Thornhill: Welcome the compensatory pick you're going to get for him. He's priced himself out of Kansas City.

Another guy I'm very proud of. After struggling returning from injury, Spags remade the safety corps this year after letting Matthieu/Sorensen walk by making all three safeties interchangeable cogs. Thornhill was really, really good in coverage. He was solid in the slot. He's not built for playing in the box but he made a key tackle against the run in the Super Bowl. He's going to get paid, he deserves every penny. A fantastic rookie contract for Thornhill and he's going to make some dough somewhere else.

MVS: The Chiefs need to find a deep threat this offseason to learn the ropes, but MVS can stay for another year. If you exclude Mahomes, you could argue that MVS (and Chris Jones) deserve the MVP of the AFCCG.

Hardman: Mecole has done yeoman's work over the course of his entire rookie contract. He's not a full route tree guy but the value he brings with his horizontal speed and his work in Wasp is fantastic.

He was absolutely pricing himself out of Kansas City, but if the Chiefs offer him a 1 year contract for $5m, he'd probably take it. He'll do Hardman things for a year, and next offseason someone will pay him $30m over 3 years. Offer him the "let's get you some money" contract that JuJu signed, and I bet he takes it.

McKinnon: This guy provides so much balance and is such a perfect fit with Pacheco. I've said in other threads that the Chiefs should go get Samaje Perine, who is three years younger and gives them the power running that McKinnon can't provide.

But you know what McKinnon was wearing the last quarter of the season? The captain's badge.

This locker room loves him, the offense uses him perfectly. He's cheap. He belongs in Kansas City.

Clark: I'm at peace with whatever the Chiefs do here. But they cannot bring him back at his current cap number.

If they repeat what they did last year, and adjust his contract, I completely support that decision. The Chiefs should draft DE in the 1st, and have him learn for a year under Clark. If they cut Clark to just have maximum cap space with having to pay Jones and Brown (and Sneed), I'm with it. Both moves make perfect sense to me. I trust the front office.

Wylie: Wylie has now played in three Super Bowls, starting two at right tackle. He's gotten consistently better every single year, and peaked out by playing out of his mind against the Bengals and Eagles to help the team win it all.

We don't have the money for him. We're going to pay Brown, we're paying Thuney, and in a year we're going to pay Humphrey and Smith. We can't pay all five guys. And Wylie's going to get paid.

This guy has been a killer teammate and fantastic addition for the nastiness of the OL over the years. He's played three different positions, at various degrees of capability. He's a great dude, a hard worker, and has multiple rings. He is the saving grace of that 2018 draft class (even though we technically didn't draft him). Thank you, Andrew. I put respect on your name.

Saunders: Saunders can sit on the market while we hunt for better run pluggers, if a team wants to pay him, so be it.

If not, we can bring him back for a one-year deal like we did with Nnadi. Saunders is a rare athlete and worked his ass off this year to earn the snaps he did. He's also a fantastic dude, but he's got a leg out the door anyway based on his tweets from this year. Let the dude get paid if he can, if not he can come back and play 40% of our snaps for one last ride.

Good stuff. Agree on all that.

[kccrow]

Why should winning the Super Bowl change our opinion of anyone? Some players were shit all season then have one good game and we're supposed to change it? Some were great role players that I'd welcome back if the bag is right.

Is Andrew Wylie suddenly a good RT? No.
Did he play a great SB? Yes, he did. I'm proud of Wylie. Hey, sometimes guys get the right matchup, the right situation, where they play up.
Do I want him back? Not unless it's a 4-yr VSB deal, otherwise enjoy new pastures.

Is Saunders suddenly a good DT? No. I think he has a sloth get-off with terrible pad level. He gets blasted off the ball as much as he makes plays.
Did he play a great SB? No, not especially but he made a couple of nice plays in pursuit that helped.
Do I want him back? Not unless it's for the vet minimum.

Is Clark suddenly worth $28 million as a DE? Nope.
Did he play a great SB? Not at all, but he was quite good in the AFCCG.
Do I want him back? Only if he substantially reduces his salary to $8m or less (and I strongly prefer the less).

Is Orlando suddenly a top-of-the-market OT? Not a goddamn chance. Do we forget how shit he was for the vast majority of the season or something?
Did he play a great SB? As much as Wylie did, yes. He was better in the AFCCG too.
Do I want him back? Not really, especially at his demands, but I expect it so I'm training myself to deal with it. He's passable when RT isn't a problem too.

Is Harman suddenly a great WR? No. He's a role player on a team stacked with them.
Was he instrumental in the Chiefs getting to the SB? Yes, sure. He makes the plays he's supposed to make.
Do I want him back? No, not especially. His replacement(s) are already in-house and I don't think we're going to see an appreciable difference one way or the other. I won't bitch if he is retained at a good price, I don't expect it though.

And I don't really have a change in opinion on MVS. He's a nice deep threat that steps up most of the time when he needs to. I've been surprised by him. He's not going anywhere. I'm not on board with cutting him if we're going there.

JuJu is a nice piece. I think he'll end up back next year. Do I care either way? Not a lot. He's a possession guy, not much else. I wouldn't make an unreasonable offer but I wouldn't give him a bag. He's worth more than he got this year. Definitely not worth more than $15m per. Pass if it gets to that point.

Thornhill is a nice piece too. Will he be back? I doubt that. I don't think you delay Cook to bring him back. Like Hardman, his replacement is in-house. They'll probably draft depth. I'd make him an offer though, just not one he'd likely take because he deserves to start and get a bag.

McKinnon is another nice role player. Do I think he's special? No. Would I go out of my way to retain him? Probably not. I like him at about 2.5m max. He's at that age of decline so there's that. I think there are quality options in FA if he walks. I don't suspect he'll be gone. He likes it in KC. He has a nice role that doesn't require him to pound his body.

So yeah, nothing at all has really changed regarding my opinion. What has changed is my expectation that OBj is re-signed. I don't think that was anywhere near obvious through the first 14 weeks or so.

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Why should winning the Super Bowl change our opinion of anyone?

Some might say that OBJ has won the right to some respect over the course of the season, he was the highest rated pass blocker for the second half of the season and played a pivotal role in securing us a Super Bowl Ring. 0-sacks against the leagues best DL isn't too bad. I don't love the way he does it, but he no doubt get's the job done.

JuJu's solid SB performance makes me feel like he's a solid fit here, had he come up with nothing in the AFCCCG AND the SB I might feel differently.

Frank Clark was a sure cut before the playoffs, now after contributing to another SB win, CP sentiment seems to be to let him stay if he'll take a lesser contract.

[Bump]

my opinion will just be whatever Burt Veach does is the correct decision

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by Bump

my opinion will just be whatever Burt Veach does is the correct decision

For sure.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

Some might say that OBJ has won the right to some respect over the course of the season, he was the highest rated pass blocker for the second half of the season and played a pivotal role in securing us a Super Bowl Ring. 0-sacks against the leagues best DL isn't too bad. I don't love the way he does it, but he no doubt get's the job done.

JuJu's solid SB performance makes me feel like he's a solid fit here, had he come up with nothing in the AFCCCG AND the SB I might feel differently.

Frank Clark was a sure cut before the playoffs, now after contributing to another SB win, CP sentiment seems to be to let him stay if he'll take a lesser contract.

I do agree that OBj has gained some respect. Still don't think he's anywhere near worth a top-of-market contract but as we know that'll be the 10th-ranked contract in a couple of seasons.


Clark, he's a guy where you look at cost of replacement. You look at 7.5m is already a sunk cost so what are you willing to pay to keep him over and above that to stay versus playing the market. He's still a very solid player against the run and he's a 5-6 sack guy in the regular season. Against most OLines he really does give it his all in the playoffs and turns into a much better player than he is in the regular season. What's the cost of a replacement on a 5-6 sack guy? For a vet, that's around $6-7m a year.

Here's a snapshot of most edge guys that aren't on rookie contracts that had 5-6 sacks:
Sam Hubbard - 10m per
Dante Fowler - 3m
Melvin Ingram - 4m
Demarcus Lawerence - 13.33m per
Calais Campbell - 6.25m per
Samson Ebukam - 6m per
John Franklin-Myers - 13.75m per
Marquis Haynes - 2.75m per
Ogbo Okoronkwo - 3.25m
Dawuane Smooot - 5m per
Kyle Van Noy - 2.25m

Ave = 6.33m per

So, I think saying you'd value Clark at $7-8m to stay is very reasonable.

Could you replace him for less? Perhaps, but not substantially less. He's a solid leader, teacher, and teammate. There's a bit of value in that. So, as much as Frank frustrates the shit out of us, I think retaining him is 100% in the cards if he lowers his cap hit.