***KEEP fuckIN DOUBTING THE SEATTLE SEAHAWKS*** - Page 2

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 01-18-2006, 02:48 PM

After a little sampling from the bold prediction thread and the money flying around in Vegas for the Panthers, it would appear the general consensus is Carolina steamrolls Seattle in the NFC title game. 3 road games in 3 weeks. 3000 miles to get to this one. Banged up from the Chicago game. The buck stops here. Unchartered territory. Seattle will play in the big game. They're due, they're well coached, they have the MVP of the league, and an experienced QB that is quite possibly the leagues most underrated. I've said it before, and I'll say it now. I don't suffer from the East coast bias, Seattle moves on. GO SEAHAWKS!!!!!!

**Nzoner** · 01-18-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arc

That wasn't the playoffs. Plus the Giants lost.

I really have nothing against the hawks,however,with Mike Rucker I have a little hometown bias that has me pulling for he and the panthers to win it all.

BIG_DADDY · 01-18-2006, 05:37 PM

I bet big on the Panthers as soon as the odds came out and got +4.5. Seattle's D is the issue NOT the O.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 01-18-2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

I bet big on the Panthers as soon as the odds came out and got +4.5. Seattle's D is the issue NOT the O.

I'd hope the O isn't the issue considering they're number 1 in the league. The ONLY concern for the Hawks this week is Steve Smith. Let him run wild you could be done. Shut him down, this game is over early.

**Nzoner** · 01-19-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefman420

I'd hope the O isn't the issue considering they're number 1 in the league. The ONLY concern for the Hawks this week is Steve Smith. Let him run wild you could be done. Shut him down, this game is over early.

I wouldn't totally discount Ricky Proehl,he has his fair share of big game experience.

foxman · 01-19-2006, 09:38 AM

Carolina is actually a LOT deeper at WR than most people realize.

Proehl is a stud posession WR that is a best 3rd down guy.
Drew Carter is a burner who has only played downt he stretch but has quickly become a nice target including that WR screen that they throw to Smith so much.

Kerry Colbert was a big dissapointment this year after his very productive year last year, but still has probably the surest hands on the team and when Jake makes a good throw to him he will catch it.

Kris Mangum is their primary threat at TE and I use the word threat loosly because Henning doesnt design a ton of stuff to the TE, but that's what makes him effective since we tend to catch people off guard when we throw to him.

Brad Hoover and Nick Goings are both pretty effective passing catching backs.

So trust me when I say it isnt necessarily game over if they shut Smith down....it just means Henning has to adjust his game plan and that might be the bigger challenge than the having the talent to do the job.

tiptap · 01-19-2006, 10:03 AM

Ask just about any NFL analyst why the Seattle Seahawks are in this weekend’s NFC Championship game, and you’ll hear about league MVP Shaun Alexander, quarterback Matt Hasselbeck, and a great offensive line. But the Seahawks had all of those elements in place last year, when they turned in a mediocre season that concluded with a loss in the first round of the playoffs. The real reason Seattle has gone from playoff also-ran to championship contender is the improvement of the run defense. Seattle allowed 4.5 yards per rushing attempt last year but has allowed only 3.6 this year.

The personnel department deserves credit for the improvement — Seattle made wholesale changes to its front seven, a unit on which only tackle Rocky Bernard started both last year’s playoff loss to the Rams and last week’s playoff win against the Redskins.

The most important personnel upgrade was in the middle, where Seattle drafted linebacker Lofa Tatupu in the second round and he has quickly developed into the most important player on the defense. An examination of Tatupu on every play of the Seahawks’ 20-10 victory on Saturday shows that he is one of the league’s most versatile linebackers, able not only to stop running backs, but also to rush the quarterback and drop into coverage.

Tatupu lasted into the middle of the second round of last year’s draft largely because teams thought he was too small to be a middle linebacker (he’s listed at 5-foot-11, 238 pounds, and is probably a little smaller than that). Some projections had him moving to strong safety in the NFL. Seattle wisely saw that his intelligence and athleticism were exactly what it needed at middle linebacker. The Seattle front office knew that, like Zach Thomas a decade earlier, Tatupu would be a steal because teams look too much at the yardstick and not enough at the game film.

Despite his size, Tatupu often sheds the blocks of bigger players. On a second-and-5 run, Washington’s 6-foot-4, 260-pound tight end Robert Royal tried to block him, but Tatupu got past him to assist on the tackle on Clinton Portis for no gain. Tatupu’s best play of the game came on the next play. On third-and-5, Tatupu’s assignment was to drop into coverage and take away the Redskins’ slot receiver. He did that well enough that Brunell didn’t have anything open and tried to tuck the ball under his arm to run. As soon as Brunell crossed the line of scrimmage, Tatupu flew toward him and nailed him for a gain of only two yards. Even though Brunell is slow, few linebackers are fast enough to go from pass coverage to tackling the quarterback that quickly.

Shedding the block of a tight end is different from shedding the block of a guard, though, and Tatupu needs to learn when to fight through a blocker and when to go around him. On a first-and-10 Portis run, Washington guard Derrick Dockery pulled to the left and buried Tatupu, and Portis ran past him for four yards.

When Tatupu doesn’t have to fight off blocks he gets from his spot at middle linebacker to the backfield in an instant. On a second-and-17 in the third quarter, defensive end Bryce Fisher knocked Royal back, clearing the path for Tatupu, who, along with Grant Wistrom, converged on Ladell Betts for a loss of three. (Fisher, incidentally, was quietly one of the league’s best free-agent acquisitions, registering nine sacks in the regular season and adding one against Washington. His battle with Carolina right tackle Jordan Gross will be great.)

That came one play after Tatupu showed how well he plays the pass. On first-and-20, Santana Moss lined up split to the left, with Washington using motion in the other direction to try to draw coverage away. When Brunell threw a screen to Moss, Tatupu recognized it immediately, evaded the blocks of Washington linemen Derrick Dockery and Chris Samuels, and brought Moss down for a gain of three. Moss is one of the best receivers in the league at getting past defenders, but Tatupu didn’t have any trouble with him.

Tatupu stays on the field even when the Seahawks go to their nickel package, but in some obvious passing situations he lines up as deep as 10 yards off the line of scrimmage, playing a hybrid safety-linebacker position. On most passes he covers the running backs, and he’s excellent at that. On a first-and-10 late in the first half, Brunell tried a short pass to running back Ladell Betts, but Tatupu was right on top of him in coverage and tackled him for a two-yard gain.

Aside from his size, the other knock on Tatupu coming out of USC was that he is so aggressive that he often takes himself out of plays. There’s some truth in that. On a fourth-and-2, Tatupu looked like he was trying to make a highlight-reel play and took a bad angle to the inside. When Portis ran to the outside, Redskins receiver Jimmy Farris needed only a glancing block to keep Tatupu away. Tatupu also can be beaten on play-action passes. On Washington’s first play, Tatupu bit on a play-fake and took four steps toward Portis before he realized that Portis didn’t have the ball. Those are undisciplined plays, but any team will gladly live with a few undisciplined plays from a rookie who adds as much value to the team as Tatupu does.

Tatupu clearly has a mastery of the Seahawks’ defense. On nearly every play he barks out signals and tells the linemen in front of him to shift before the snap. It’s rare for a rookie to have those responsibilities, but Tatupu’s football background far exceeds that of most rookies. Tatupu’s father, Mosi Tatupu, played 14 years in the NFL and was also Lofa’s coach in high school, where Lofa played quarterback in addition to linebacker. After high school he spent a year playing at the University of Maine before sitting out a year and then transferring to USC.

The only recent linebacker to come in as a rookie and make such an immediate impact as a defensive signal-caller is Jonathan Vilma with the Jets last season. But Tatupu seems even more involved with all the facets of the defense than Vilma — with his barking and gesticulations, Tatupu is almost like a linebacker version of Peyton Manning.

As the Panthers formulate their game plan, they should consider snapping the ball quickly after they line up, not giving Tatupu time to examine the formation and instruct his teammates. (That would also give Jake Delhomme less time to survey Seattle’s defense, but Steve Smith is generally Delhomme’s first option no matter how the defense lines up.) Rookie linebackers don’t ordinarily force opposing offenses to radically change their game plans, but if Tatupu has shown anything this year, it’s that he’s no ordinary rookie.

Each week, Michael David Smith looks at one specific player or one aspect of a team on every single play of the previous game. Standard caveat applies: Yes, one game is not necessarily an indicator of performance over the entire season. If you have a player or a unit you would like tracked in Every Play Counts, suggest it by emailing mike-at-footballoutsiders.com.

posted 1-19-2006 at 9:06 AM by Michael David Smith || Every Play Counts

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/print/3543/

BIG_DADDY · 01-19-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefman420

I'd hope the O isn't the issue considering they're number 1 in the league. The ONLY concern for the Hawks this week is Steve Smith. Let him run wild you could be done. Shut him down, this game is over early.

Hey don't get me wrong if Seattle wins god bless em it's about time the Northwest had something to root for. I think you're going to be disappointed though. Tampa only let The skins worthless O have 120 total net yards in their game as opposed to the Hawks who let them almost reach 300. You can also say the Hawks had the top O and that is statistically correct but if you were to pick any O in the league it wouldn't be Seattle as their schedule has been a cakewalk. I can see how you would think they have a decent chance as nobody at this point has beat them up but to think this game is going to be over early is opptomistic to the umpteenth level.

BTW, you going to the game?

**Nzoner** · 01-19-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

Hey don't get me wrong if Seattle wins god bless em it's about time the Northwest had something to root for. I think you're going to be disappointed though. Tampa only let The skins worthless O have 120 total net yards in their game as opposed to the Hawks who let them almost reach 300. You can also say the Hawks had the top O and that is statistically correct but if you were to pick any O in the league it wouldn't be Seattle as their schedule has been a cakewalk. I can see how you would think they have a decent chance as nobody at this point has beat them up but to think this game is going to be over early is opptomistic to the umpteenth level.

In looking at a couple of the hawks' games over the last of the season where they played a decent offense(G-Men & Titans) in games that counted both qb's threw for over 300 yds and multiple td's.

Granted,they got a W in each game which is all that matters right now,but like you I don't see this game being over early whether Smith is shut down or not.

StcChief · 01-19-2006, 11:09 AM

Carolina takes out Seahags... too weak a team, even with Alexander.

jidar · 01-19-2006, 11:54 AM

The Panthers are a physical team and Fox is good at making them prepared no matter the obstacles. Carolina is going to beat the crap out of Seattle.

Frosty · 01-22-2006, 09:46 PM

I wish the Chiefs' defense was as bad as the Hawks' defense.

**KcMizzou** · 01-22-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jidar

The Panthers are a physical team and Fox is good at making them prepared no matter the obstacles. Carolina is going to beat the crap out of Seattle.

Oops.

**Nzoner** · 01-22-2006, 10:01 PM

Just got back from the bar figured this thread would be on page 1,congrats to the Hawks,I was wrong.

Now,go Steelers!!

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 01-22-2006, 11:36 PM

42 minutes to 18 minutes top. Just a complete whitewash of the NFL's hottest team. A thorough ass kicking from start to finish. And the line for the superbowl opens up at 3 favoring the AFC 6 seed over the NFC 1 seed. THEN CLIMBS TO 4 WITHIN AN HOUR. Let me say this again. KEEP fuckIN DOUBTING THE SEATTLE SEAHAWKS. Everytime you do, they make a stronger case as to why their offense is 1st in the league. They prove further why they led the league in sacks. This team should ROLL Pittsburg. I guess we'll see how it plays out. GO SEAHAWKS!!!!!!!

Halfcan · 01-22-2006, 11:50 PM

Hawks just flat out killed them.

01-18-2006, 02:48 PM
Mr. Flopnuts FINALLY! The wait is over. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Is Now!!! Casino cash: $19947565	*KEEP fuckIN DOUBTING THE SEATTLE SEAHAWKS* After a little sampling from the bold prediction thread and the money flying around in Vegas for the Panthers, it would appear the general consensus is Carolina steamrolls Seattle in the NFC title game. 3 road games in 3 weeks. 3000 miles to get to this one. Banged up from the Chicago game. The buck stops here. Unchartered territory. Seattle will play in the big game. They're due, they're well coached, they have the MVP of the league, and an experienced QB that is quite possibly the leagues most underrated. I've said it before, and I'll say it now. I don't suffer from the East coast bias, Seattle moves on. GO SEAHAWKS!!!!!!
Posts: 56,649

01-18-2006, 05:37 PM	#17
BIG_DADDY THE RED MENACE Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texas Casino cash: $2558410	I bet big on the Panthers as soon as the odds came out and got +4.5. Seattle's D is the issue NOT the O. __________________ The diabolical genius of Marxism-Socialism is that it provides the emotional and intellectual road map for autocrats to persuade millions of people to support their own enslavement to government. ~Mark Levin April 15, 2019
Posts: 32,522

01-19-2006, 09:38 AM	#20
foxman Post Whore Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oz Casino cash: $10004900	Carolina is actually a LOT deeper at WR than most people realize. Proehl is a stud posession WR that is a best 3rd down guy. Drew Carter is a burner who has only played downt he stretch but has quickly become a nice target including that WR screen that they throw to Smith so much. Kerry Colbert was a big dissapointment this year after his very productive year last year, but still has probably the surest hands on the team and when Jake makes a good throw to him he will catch it. Kris Mangum is their primary threat at TE and I use the word threat loosly because Henning doesnt design a ton of stuff to the TE, but that's what makes him effective since we tend to catch people off guard when we throw to him. Brad Hoover and Nick Goings are both pretty effective passing catching backs. So trust me when I say it isnt necessarily game over if they shut Smith down....it just means Henning has to adjust his game plan and that might be the bigger challenge than the having the talent to do the job. __________________ "Mommy - I need to go potty"... "Oh, for God's sakes, you picked today to stop goin' in your pants?!?" My Name is Earl
Posts: 1,060

01-19-2006, 10:03 AM	#21
tiptap Is this it? Join Date: Jan 2004 Casino cash: $10007847	Ask just about any NFL analyst why the Seattle Seahawks are in this weekend’s NFC Championship game, and you’ll hear about league MVP Shaun Alexander, quarterback Matt Hasselbeck, and a great offensive line. But the Seahawks had all of those elements in place last year, when they turned in a mediocre season that concluded with a loss in the first round of the playoffs. The real reason Seattle has gone from playoff also-ran to championship contender is the improvement of the run defense. Seattle allowed 4.5 yards per rushing attempt last year but has allowed only 3.6 this year. The personnel department deserves credit for the improvement — Seattle made wholesale changes to its front seven, a unit on which only tackle Rocky Bernard started both last year’s playoff loss to the Rams and last week’s playoff win against the Redskins. The most important personnel upgrade was in the middle, where Seattle drafted linebacker Lofa Tatupu in the second round and he has quickly developed into the most important player on the defense. An examination of Tatupu on every play of the Seahawks’ 20-10 victory on Saturday shows that he is one of the league’s most versatile linebackers, able not only to stop running backs, but also to rush the quarterback and drop into coverage. Tatupu lasted into the middle of the second round of last year’s draft largely because teams thought he was too small to be a middle linebacker (he’s listed at 5-foot-11, 238 pounds, and is probably a little smaller than that). Some projections had him moving to strong safety in the NFL. Seattle wisely saw that his intelligence and athleticism were exactly what it needed at middle linebacker. The Seattle front office knew that, like Zach Thomas a decade earlier, Tatupu would be a steal because teams look too much at the yardstick and not enough at the game film. Despite his size, Tatupu often sheds the blocks of bigger players. On a second-and-5 run, Washington’s 6-foot-4, 260-pound tight end Robert Royal tried to block him, but Tatupu got past him to assist on the tackle on Clinton Portis for no gain. Tatupu’s best play of the game came on the next play. On third-and-5, Tatupu’s assignment was to drop into coverage and take away the Redskins’ slot receiver. He did that well enough that Brunell didn’t have anything open and tried to tuck the ball under his arm to run. As soon as Brunell crossed the line of scrimmage, Tatupu flew toward him and nailed him for a gain of only two yards. Even though Brunell is slow, few linebackers are fast enough to go from pass coverage to tackling the quarterback that quickly. Shedding the block of a tight end is different from shedding the block of a guard, though, and Tatupu needs to learn when to fight through a blocker and when to go around him. On a first-and-10 Portis run, Washington guard Derrick Dockery pulled to the left and buried Tatupu, and Portis ran past him for four yards. When Tatupu doesn’t have to fight off blocks he gets from his spot at middle linebacker to the backfield in an instant. On a second-and-17 in the third quarter, defensive end Bryce Fisher knocked Royal back, clearing the path for Tatupu, who, along with Grant Wistrom, converged on Ladell Betts for a loss of three. (Fisher, incidentally, was quietly one of the league’s best free-agent acquisitions, registering nine sacks in the regular season and adding one against Washington. His battle with Carolina right tackle Jordan Gross will be great.) That came one play after Tatupu showed how well he plays the pass. On first-and-20, Santana Moss lined up split to the left, with Washington using motion in the other direction to try to draw coverage away. When Brunell threw a screen to Moss, Tatupu recognized it immediately, evaded the blocks of Washington linemen Derrick Dockery and Chris Samuels, and brought Moss down for a gain of three. Moss is one of the best receivers in the league at getting past defenders, but Tatupu didn’t have any trouble with him. Tatupu stays on the field even when the Seahawks go to their nickel package, but in some obvious passing situations he lines up as deep as 10 yards off the line of scrimmage, playing a hybrid safety-linebacker position. On most passes he covers the running backs, and he’s excellent at that. On a first-and-10 late in the first half, Brunell tried a short pass to running back Ladell Betts, but Tatupu was right on top of him in coverage and tackled him for a two-yard gain. Aside from his size, the other knock on Tatupu coming out of USC was that he is so aggressive that he often takes himself out of plays. There’s some truth in that. On a fourth-and-2, Tatupu looked like he was trying to make a highlight-reel play and took a bad angle to the inside. When Portis ran to the outside, Redskins receiver Jimmy Farris needed only a glancing block to keep Tatupu away. Tatupu also can be beaten on play-action passes. On Washington’s first play, Tatupu bit on a play-fake and took four steps toward Portis before he realized that Portis didn’t have the ball. Those are undisciplined plays, but any team will gladly live with a few undisciplined plays from a rookie who adds as much value to the team as Tatupu does. Tatupu clearly has a mastery of the Seahawks’ defense. On nearly every play he barks out signals and tells the linemen in front of him to shift before the snap. It’s rare for a rookie to have those responsibilities, but Tatupu’s football background far exceeds that of most rookies. Tatupu’s father, Mosi Tatupu, played 14 years in the NFL and was also Lofa’s coach in high school, where Lofa played quarterback in addition to linebacker. After high school he spent a year playing at the University of Maine before sitting out a year and then transferring to USC. The only recent linebacker to come in as a rookie and make such an immediate impact as a defensive signal-caller is Jonathan Vilma with the Jets last season. But Tatupu seems even more involved with all the facets of the defense than Vilma — with his barking and gesticulations, Tatupu is almost like a linebacker version of Peyton Manning. As the Panthers formulate their game plan, they should consider snapping the ball quickly after they line up, not giving Tatupu time to examine the formation and instruct his teammates. (That would also give Jake Delhomme less time to survey Seattle’s defense, but Steve Smith is generally Delhomme’s first option no matter how the defense lines up.) Rookie linebackers don’t ordinarily force opposing offenses to radically change their game plans, but if Tatupu has shown anything this year, it’s that he’s no ordinary rookie. Each week, Michael David Smith looks at one specific player or one aspect of a team on every single play of the previous game. Standard caveat applies: Yes, one game is not necessarily an indicator of performance over the entire season. If you have a player or a unit you would like tracked in Every Play Counts, suggest it by emailing mike-at-footballoutsiders.com. posted 1-19-2006 at 9:06 AM by Michael David Smith \|\| Every Play Counts http://www.footballoutsiders.com/print/3543/ __________________ Even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases. . . He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge." -H.L. Mencken
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01-19-2006, 11:09 AM	#24
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	Carolina takes out Seahags... too weak a team, even with Alexander. __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
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01-19-2006, 11:54 AM	#25
jidar MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: a Casino cash: $10004900	The Panthers are a physical team and Fox is good at making them prepared no matter the obstacles. Carolina is going to beat the crap out of Seattle.
Posts: 5,502

01-22-2006, 09:46 PM	#26
Frosty Go Beavers! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Washington Casino cash: $3398243	I wish the Chiefs' defense was as bad as the Hawks' defense.
Posts: 14,539

01-22-2006, 10:01 PM	#28
Nzoner a haw haw haw Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: MIZZOU Casino cash: $26365802	Just got back from the bar figured this thread would be on page 1,congrats to the Hawks,I was wrong. Now,go Steelers!! __________________ *Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.*
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01-22-2006, 11:50 PM	#30
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	Hawks just flat out killed them.
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