These "parents" should face criminal charges - Page 10

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-27-2008, 07:12 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer

Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.

"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."

Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.

The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.

"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."

The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."

C-Mac · 03-28-2008, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

No, I don't see it as a huge conflict. You need a good military for national defense and other things. A lot of people support the troops without maybe supporting policies that the troops undertake.

I think anyone that knew what Hitler was doing to people and supported him was wrong.

I don't know all the details of the Churche's relations with Hitler. I know he was liked by many Germans. I don't know what the extent of the Church's support was after Kristallnacht, I can't really say much.

Its cool, I know your honestly trying to make sense of it all. But there is no doubt that if everyone thought as Jesus did, there would be no wars. He was not a pacifist but he did state that "those who live by the sword will die by the sword" (Matthew 26:52) and to “return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men”(Romans 12:17) and that birds will eat the "fleshy parts of military commanders" (Revelation 19:18). All very interesting stuff to me.

POND_OF_RED · 03-28-2008, 12:31 AM

I agree. Sentence them to lethal injection and see if they can pray hard enough to survive.

Pants · 03-28-2008, 02:25 AM

Wow, some people really make me lose faith in humanity and common f***ing sense...

kcxiv · 03-28-2008, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVE

Eh, if your a christian and a person who believes in the bible this is not acceptable as a parent IMO.

I am not part of any organized religion as i dont really go for what they try to spit at me, but i would say i am a form of Christianity. I say my prayers and read the bible and what not, but this is very very unacceptable. Last night, my neice who is 6 months wouldnt stop caughing last night and we though something was seriously wrong. They called up my mom and she said take her to the doctor immediatley. I may not be a parent, but i did not sleep until i see my neice back at home and fine. I never been so scared in my life and i have been through alot of shit. God will be there when your back from the doctors. Kids? maybe not. Again, unacceptable.

bkkcoh · 03-28-2008, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metrolike

Wow, some people really make me lose faith in humanity and common f***ing sense...

I have thought that common sense has long since been lost in this world. There are far too numerous instances in which this is and has been proven time and time again.

Duck Dog · 03-28-2008, 07:16 AM

The pain and misery that poor girl had to endure must have been awful. What kind of idiot does it take to do something like this?

Sully · 03-28-2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

Just wanted to make sure credit was given where it was due.

I'd move back to the topic, but Tom said he was putting me on ignore (easier than actually addressing my first post, I suppose)...at the same time he called me a coward and an a**hole (well, he's got the last part right at least).

Put you on ignore, at the same time as calling you a coward and ignoring a direct question?

Seriously, that's hilarious.

**chasedude** · 03-28-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

Every state has laws against child endangerment and neglect, and this certainly qualifies.

Thread Closed

**chasedude** · 03-28-2008, 08:15 AM

I'm not a religious person so it's tough for me to understand why the parents take this kind of action. Wouldn't the love for a child supersede everything else and cause a parent to take action on other means besides faith? I just can't fathom the love over a "spiritual" being over flesh and blood. If we're all made in God's image then why not love your child as God? Too many questions...

Third Eye · 03-28-2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasedude

I'm not a religious person so it's tough for me to understand why the parents take this kind of action. Wouldn't the love for a child supersede everything else and cause a parent to take action on other means besides faith? I just can't fathom the love over a "spiritual" being over flesh and blood. If we're all made in God's image then why not love your child as God? Too many questions...

Not my cup of tea, but here is a little quote for you:

"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:37)

**chasedude** · 03-28-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Third Eye

Not my cup of tea, but here is a little quote for you:

"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:37)

No offense, but that's just plain stupid.

Third Eye · 03-28-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasedude

No offense, but that's just plain stupid.

None taken, like I said, it isn't my thing.

BucEyedPea · 03-28-2008, 08:48 AM

This is a tough one, but Christian Scientists don't treat illnesses either.
Case of conflicting rights and freedom of religion is part of that.

No one seems to be bothered when people die from a medical treatment though.
There's thousands of those and just from properly taken prescribed medicine.

MIAdragon · 03-28-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Third Eye

Not my cup of tea, but here is a little quote for you:

"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:37)

I her you now please quote Jesus when he says the only healing can come from me via your prayers.

DenverChief · 03-28-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

No one seems to be bothered when people die from a medical treatment though.
There's thousands of those and just from properly taken prescribed medicine.

Really? I see medical malpractice lawsuits filed all the time

03-27-2008, 07:12 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	These "parents" should face criminal charges http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor. An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said. She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney. The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors. She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently. "We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering." Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said. The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body. Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl. "My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith." The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent. "Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now." The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital. But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead. She is survived by her parents and three older siblings. "We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time." The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway. Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."
Posts: 88,960

03-28-2008, 12:31 AM	#137
POND_OF_RED The talking stonehead Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Blue Springs, MO Casino cash: $1503146	I agree. Sentence them to lethal injection and see if they can pray hard enough to survive.
Posts: 5,740

03-28-2008, 02:25 AM	#138
Pants Time Keeps On Slipping Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $5499900	Wow, some people really make me lose faith in humanity and common f***ing sense... __________________ "Turn the channel to 26!"
Posts: 27,294

03-28-2008, 07:16 AM	#141
Duck Dog Reap the whirlwind Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Olathe Casino cash: $10004900	The pain and misery that poor girl had to endure must have been awful. What kind of idiot does it take to do something like this?
Posts: 8,902

03-28-2008, 08:15 AM	#144
chasedude Supporter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: St. Joe Casino cash: $10004900	I'm not a religious person so it's tough for me to understand why the parents take this kind of action. Wouldn't the love for a child supersede everything else and cause a parent to take action on other means besides faith? I just can't fathom the love over a "spiritual" being over flesh and blood. If we're all made in God's image then why not love your child as God? Too many questions...
Posts: 36,287

03-28-2008, 08:48 AM	#148
BucEyedPea Gimme My Berries Back! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: None of your business Casino cash: $3129963	This is a tough one, but Christian Scientists don't treat illnesses either. Case of conflicting rights and freedom of religion is part of that. No one seems to be bothered when people die from a medical treatment though. There's thousands of those and just from properly taken prescribed medicine.
Posts: 161,924