Chiefs A few Chiefs' draft questions

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Just looking through this thread makes me happy I have Chiefzilla on ignore. Crabtree not worth a 3rd pick, but Braylon Edwards is? Hilarious.

Yeah, and a "good" 3-4 DE is supposed to get 70-80 tackles per season, even though Richard Seymour has averaged 44 combined tackles (assists included) in his career.

I hope this guy is neutered.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-01-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, and a "good" 3-4 DE is supposed to get 70-80 tackles per season, even though Richard Seymour has averaged 44 combined tackles (assists included) in his career.

I hope this guy is neutered.

And admitted I was wrong.

JFC.

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And admitted I was wrong.

JFC.

Where did you come up with this idea?

And quite honestly, you've been wrong about everything else in this thread.

Where DO you come up with this shit?

I'm curious.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-01-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Where did you come up with this idea?

And quite honestly, you've been wrong about everything else in this thread.

Where DO you come up with this shit?

I'm curious.

-Glad you think I'm wrong on the value of the 5-technique. After you ignored a very well-written article on the topic
-I made the point that 3-4 defenses rarely get rid of productive 3-4 Defensive linemen. But put a lot less effort into keeping their OLBs and especially their CBS and ILBs. Obviously teams think 5-techniques are valuable. Tell me where I'm wrong there
-So I'm wrong about Crabtree because he had two productive games?
-And to say that Crabtree was a consensus top 5 pick is revisionist history. Like I said, there were a lot more people on this board against Crabtree than for him. But hindsight is 20/20

It's easy to say somebody's wrong when you don't even try to argue the points.

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

-Glad you think I'm wrong on the value of the 5-technique. After you ignored a very well-written article on the topic
-I made the point that 3-4 defenses rarely get rid of productive 3-4 Defensive linemen. But put a lot less effort into keeping their OLBs and especially their CBS and ILBs. Obviously teams think 5-techniques are valuable. Tell me where I'm wrong there
-So I'm wrong about Crabtree because he had two productive games?
-And to say that Crabtree was a consensus top 5 pick is revisionist history. Like I said, there were a lot more people on this board against Crabtree than for him. But hindsight is 20/20

It's easy to say somebody's wrong when you don't even try to argue the points.

First off, who gives a shit about an article from 2004 written by Michael Smith? He uses Seymour as his basis. Who cares? Did you NOT know what the 5-Tech DE's job is on the field?

Secondly, the CHIEFS are the only team in NFL HISTORY to place such importance on a 3-4, 5-tech.

And lastly, Pioli went off the ****ing reservation to draft TJ and has been panned by ANYONE and EVERYONE with any football knowledge.

People may have questioned taking Crabtree at #3 (or the other guys I mentioned) but there's no denying that he (and the others) are game-changing playmakers.

TJ is NOT.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-01-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

First off, who gives a shit about an article from 2004 written by Michael Smith? He uses Seymour as his basis. Who cares? Did you NOT know what the 5-Tech DE's job is on the field?

Secondly, the CHIEFS are the only team in NFL HISTORY to place such importance on a 3-4, 5-tech.

And lastly, Pioli went off the ****ing reservation to draft TJ and has been panned by ANYONE and EVERYONE with any football knowledge.

People may have questioned taking Crabtree at #3 (or the other guys I mentioned) but there's no denying that he (and the others) are game-changing playmakers.

TJ is NOT.

Take the big 3 (Pitt, NE, Baltimore) in terms of years of experience. In order, the players that are the longest tenured are: Nose Tackles (8 years), Defensive End (7 years), ILB (6 years... 4 years if you subtract out Ray Lewis' 14 years), OLB (5 years), Strong Safety (4 years), Free Safety (3 years), CB (3 years)

If the DE position is so unimportant, then why do these teams continue to re-sign their starters at the position? And by the way, how much do you think the Cowboys miss Jamaal Williams and Olshansky right now? Shawn Merriman isn't jack shit without these guys in front of him.

DE
Brett Keisel - 8
Aaron Smith - 11
Jarvis Green - 8
Ty Warren - 7
Trevor Pryce - 4
Haloti Ngata - 4
Average - 7 years

NT
Casey Hampton - 9
Vince Wilfork - 6
Kelly Gregg - 9
Average - 8 years

OLB
Lamar Woodley - 3
James Harrison - 7
Pierre Woods - 4
Adalius Thomas - 3
Jarrett Johnson - 7
Terrell Suggs - 7
Average: 5 years

ILB
James Farrior - 8
Lawrence Timmons - 3
Jerod Mayo - 2
Eric Alexander - 6
Ray Lewis - 14
Tavares Gooden - 2
Average: 6 years

CB
Ike Taylor - 7
William Gay - 3
Shawn Springs - 1
Leigh Bodden - 1
Dominique Foxworth - 1
Fabian Washington - 2
Average: 2.5 years

Free Safety
Ryan Mundy - 1
Branden McGowan - 1
Ed Reed - 8
Average: 3 years

Strong Safety
Troy Polamalu - 7
Branden Merriweather - 3
Dawan Landry - 4
Average: 4 years

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If the DE position is so unimportant, then why do these teams continue to re-sign their starters at the position? And by the way, how much do you think the Cowboys miss Jamaal Williams and Olshansky right now? Shawn Merriman isn't jack shit without these guys in front of him.

Merriman's coming off of major knee reconstruction. Did you really expect that after one year he'd be exactly the same?

And secondly, whether you know if or not, those guys you mentioned played for the Chargers, not Cowboys.

**BossChief** · 11-01-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, and a "good" 3-4 DE is supposed to get 70-80 tackles per season, even though Richard Seymour has averaged 44 combined tackles (assists included) in his career.

I hope this guy is neutered.

Some elite 3-4 defensive ends have had that many tackles, some (like Bruce Smith and even Neil Smith) have good sack production as well.

those arent typical 5 tecs though, they were used differently.

Bruce Smith had years where he had over 100 tackles and more than 10 sacks as a 3-4 end. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SmitBr00.htm

Neil Smith was more like 60-70 tackles and 7 or so sacks while in the 3-4
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SmitNe00.htm

there are other examples, but those were different systems they ran. Sure it was a 3-4, but every player had different responsibilities than what our scheme calls for Those are also HOF examples where there were probably only another handfull of players that could do those things in the history of the NFL I know of....

In our system, the jobs of the 3 down linemen is to tie up the 5 olinemen so that the backers can roam and make plays rather than make the plays themselves.

Look at Seymour now as opposed to what he did in NE, completely different responsibilities.

**Rausch** · 11-01-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Some elite 3-4 defensive ends have had that many tackles, some (like Bruce Smith and even Neil Smith) have good sack production as well.

When was Neil Smith a 3-4 DE?

milkman · 11-01-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

When was Neil Smith a 3-4 DE?

Hell, when did Bruse Smith play in a 34?

I think Neil played in a 34 from about 90-92.

**Rausch** · 11-01-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Hell, when did Bruse Smith play in a 34?

I think Neil played in a 34 from about 90-92.

Yeah, when DT got to pick what side of the formation he wanted to blitz from...

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Some elite 3-4 defensive ends have had that many tackles, some (like Bruce Smith and even Neil Smith) have good sack production as well.

those arent typical 5 tecs though, they were used differently.

Bruce Smith had years where he had over 100 tackles and more than 10 sacks as a 3-4 end. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SmitBr00.htm

Neil Smith was more like 60-70 tackles and 7 or so sacks while in the 3-4
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SmitNe00.htm

there are other examples, but those were different systems they ran. Sure it was a 3-4, but every player had different responsibilities than what our scheme calls for Those are also HOF examples where there were probably only another handfull of players that could do those things in the history of the NFL I know of....

In our system, the jobs of the 3 down linemen is to tie up the 5 olinemen so that the backers can roam and make plays rather than make the plays themselves.

Look at Seymour now as opposed to what he did in NE, completely different responsibilities.

Bruce & Neil Smith were NEVER 5-Tech defensive ends.

End of story.

**BossChief** · 11-12-2009, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Some elite 3-4 defensive ends have had that many tackles, some (like Bruce Smith and even Neil Smith) have good sack production as well.

those arent typical 5 tecs though, they were used differently.

Bruce Smith had years where he had over 100 tackles and more than 10 sacks as a 3-4 end. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SmitBr00.htm

Neil Smith was more like 60-70 tackles and 7 or so sacks while in the 3-4
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SmitNe00.htm

there are other examples, but those were different systems they ran. Sure it was a 3-4, but every player had different responsibilities than what our scheme calls for Those are also HOF examples where there were probably only another handfull of players that could do those things in the history of the NFL I know of....

In our system, the jobs of the 3 down linemen is to tie up the 5 olinemen so that the backers can roam and make plays rather than make the plays themselves.

Look at Seymour now as opposed to what he did in NE, completely different responsibilities.

here is my original post you misunderstood as me calling them 5-tecs

you are mixing my input in the conversation with chiefzillas!

Go ahead and call me an idiot again though if it makes you feel better.