The myth of Pioli

[B_Ambuehl]

LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0

This time it’s personnel
Building to collapse
By Ron Borges
Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago
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MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner.

That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21.

Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro
football.

It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way.

Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday.

While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL.

These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots.

“It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him.

Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now.

Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom?

They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom?

Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom?

Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses?

That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change.

“We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.”

The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it.

“We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too.

“Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.”

That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.

[Hammock Parties]

Don't forget Succop!

[Titty Meat]

Is this going to be like the college football smack where people say off the wall stupid shit then not own up to there words? Peterson better than Pioli? That's ridiculous.

[FAX]

Not necessarily "optimistic", but maybe tone down the screaming and wailing just a tad. You're waking the baby.

Look, so far, the worst thing Pioli has done is give the contract to Cassel. That's 28 million guaranteed (not necessarily the 60 million people like to talk about). Worst case (and assuming that Pioli can't unload him), he becomes an over-paid backup ... and a pretty decent backup, at that.

As for the other coaching and personnel moves, don't forget that Pioli was hired late - that's on Clark. Haley was, therefore, hired late and the inventory of staff coaches was depleted by then. We were stuck.

The personnel stuff was Pioli responding to urgent needs and problems. Some of those worked and some didn't. However, (and this is important) would you prefer that Pioli play all year with the hand he was dealt ala Peterson? I think not.

Temper fury with reason, for God's sake.

FAX

[DaWolf]

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

It's not about giving him time, we don't have any choice, it's about seeing positive steps in the right direction. Thus far, EVERY move Pioli's made appears to be negative. Virtually EVERY player hes acquired or drafted has sucked. Players hes let go have gone to other teams and succeeded.

I think we'd have seen more positives by now if he knew what he was doing.

Trading for Cassell looks like a mistake - Giving Cassell an unnecessary 60 million was an outright abortion.

The NFL is full of "suits" who know nothing about playing or coaching football who take credit for players, coaches, and scouts success. As of now I have to put Pioli smack dab in the middle of that group, which shouldn't really be surprising considering how his reputation came about largely thru the media.

The biggest problem with this football team is Clark. Not only does he not want to spend money, but his lack of football knowledge leads him into getting suckered by the suits, which is pretty common with really bad football teams.

I don't know that you can say that at this point. It's silly to say that Clark does not want to spend money when he went out and got one of the most sought after and expensive pro-personnel men in football. He also paid a good chunk of change for a QB and has swallowed a lot of money for expensive players the new regime wanted to dump. It's not cheapness that is the issue. They will spend when they want to. You look at the Pats and the Steelers, teams Clark wants to model the Chiefs after, especially the Steelers, and historically they have not overpayed players or FA's and have instead relied on drafting and developing guys who fit their system. That's probably what Clark wants, not spending money on the Dan Williams and Carlton Gray's of the world but rather on productive players when need be, and drafting the core of the team. Of course Cassel could turn out to be a mistake as well if things don't improve, but we'll see.

Clark made a conscious decision to reshape the organization from the ground up this offseason. That will take time to shape into place. We have to keep in mind this was a team that had won 6 games in 2 years and had virtually no talent or talent that was overrated by some based on "potential" and had years of bad drafts this decade.

This team may not be much better than it was the last two years, but there wasn't much to work with in the first place. Most of the other teams in the NFL that were bad last year are again bad this year, which seems to indicate that all the free agent help that was supposedly out there probably wouldn't have been all that helpful. Pioli got rid of Pollard and Gonzo, and while those guys have been productive in their new environments, neither is on a winning team.

I dunno, maybe Pioli will prove to be a failure, obviously it was a risk as any new hire would be. But I don't think you can attribute that to Hunt not caring or wanting to spend. He went out and hired who he felt and who was widely believed to be the best guy out there, and he may yet prove to be that guy, but right now the results are obviously quite disappointing...

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Progress won't come until the roster is overhauled.

BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Bullcrap.

That team last year lost how many games by a touchdown or less? They had opportunities, too.

It's the same shit in a different wrapper, except the last half of 08 the Chiefs were mediocre on offense.

They won 2 games. They ran the spread. They were completely devoid of talent. What exactly did you expect? Progress? How much progress can you make when you don't have an every down back, a pass rush spec., a #3 rec., a center, a guard, a RT, NT, a MLB, a safety, a TE, or even a FB? I'm sorry, but I expected some big wins, and some huge blowout losses. I really don't know what you guys were expecting. I still think we may win 5 games. Maybe you guys forgot that we were 3-2 over a 5 game stretch not too long ago. Everybody saw improvement then, hell even Whitlock. Now we've played two horrible games, and it's like it never happened. You people are too easily butt hurt. This team IS progressing. We are 3-4 over the last 7 games, with a cpl stinkers. That is exactly what we should be expecting form this pile of shat roster.
3-2 over 5 games=progress
No LJ= Progress
a #2 WR= progress. yes I think Chambers is a legit #2, and his presence will help Bowe.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.

Brian Dawkins would look like shit on this team too.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

DeCosta....That's the guy i wanted. Couldn't remember his name...

You must have been intimately familiar with his credentials.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Progress won't come until the roster is overhauled. People were asking for a miracle if they expected this roster take any steps forward during the season. There's a reason street free agents come in here and start the week they get a contract. This is a bad, bad team, and no amount of smoke and mirrors is going to change that fact. Talent wins games. Period. No matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd. Which is why most realistic people, in and out of town, expected a maximum of 5 wins in 2009.

It's fine to hate losing and to get upset when it happens. Yesterday sucked. End of story. But burying the front office now? Too soon.

'course most of the people doing it started months ago.

If the 2010 or 2011 Chiefs look like this, if next offseason doesn't look any different than last, then I'll worry.

The Truth Monkey just let out a big one over this post.

It's as though people don't realize just how bad we were/are. When Pioli took over, the sign over the stadium read; "Arrowhead, Home Of The Laughing Stocks." He's supposed to turn that culture around in 12 months? That's crazy talk.

Besides, as mentioned, he has a lot more on his plate than just personnel issues. The Chiefs were a broken organization from top to bottom. Give the poor guy a little time to sort things out, I say.

FAX

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.

Chiefsplanet John Kerry

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.

What ****ing good is a 34?? yr old safety to us?
How will that make us a better team in the long run? You do know that the only thing that matters is the long run right? We are not winning 10 games with Dawkins the way Denver is, and I would be willing to bet, that if Dawkins was playing with Tamba Hali, and Not Elvis Dumerville, he would look like shit.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by FAX

Not necessarily "optimistic", but maybe tone down the screaming and wailing just a tad. You're waking the baby.

Look, so far, the worst thing Pioli has done is give the contract to Cassel. That's 28 million guaranteed (not necessarily the 60 million people like to talk about). Worst case (and assuming that Pioli can't unload him), he becomes an over-paid backup ... and a pretty decent backup, at that.

As for the other coaching and personnel moves, don't forget that Pioli was hired late - that's on Clark. Haley was, therefore, hired late and the inventory of staff coaches was depleted by then. We were stuck.

The personnel stuff was Pioli responding to urgent needs and problems. Some of those worked and some didn't. However, (and this is important) would you prefer that Pioli play all year with the hand he was dealt ala Peterson? I think not.

Temper fury with reason, for God's sake.

FAX

Jesum Crow, FAX, it's not like there wasn't a clear and established list of things that many of us wanted the team to do this offseason.

This isn't people bitching just to bitch. It's people bitching because the moves that were made (and were criticized at the time of them being made) are what we thought they were!!

And through all of that, we were told to STFD and because we aren't "Pioli".

Well, based upon the cult of personality that surrounded him as a candidate, Pioli isn't Pioli, either. Just some fat Italian in a suit throwing darts at the Patriots roster castoffs.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's amazing that none of you dumb mother****ers, in spending voluminous time defending him, still don't realize that VP of Pro Personnel isn't the ****ing GM of the team.

Scott Pioli has been a GM for one offseason and 12 games. That's his experience in this position.

Well, that should be encouraging to us, that he is also learning on the job.
He has made some strange moves, and some apparent bad moves. Hopefully, once he has time to put together a competent coaching staff, those moves will work out.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Brock

Brian Dawkins would look like shit on this team too.

I doubt he'd be taking Mike Brown angles to the ball.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

What ****ing good is a 34?? yr old safety to us?

What ****ing good is Vrabel to us?

Christ, who cares? The Chiefs had to do SOMETHING to improve this year. There is no way they wanted to rank in the bottom 5 on offense and defense again.

FAIL