Chiefs Starting to think the Chiefs will need to trade down... or... - Page 3

Direckshun · 01-10-2012, 12:00 AM

Normally I do not advocate this stuff, because I am usually not a fan of trading down in the first round. But I've been looking over the talent in this upcoming draft and I think this might need to be the case.

First, let's take a look at the elite talent that has no chance of making it out of the first round:

QB Andrew Luck, Stanford
QB Robert Griffin, Baylor
WR Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma State
OT Matt Kalil, USC
CB Morris Claiborne, LSU

The remaining top tier talent doesn't really match up value with what we want, with one major exception.

RB Trent Richardson, Alabama
WR Alshon Jeffrey, South Carolina
OT Jonathan Martin, Stanford
OT Riley Reiff, Iowa
OG David DeCastro, Stanford
DT Devin Still, Penn State
DE Quentin Coples, North Carolina
ILB Luke Kuechly, Boston College
CB Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama
CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama

Scott Pioli is a legit believer in draft value, though he has broken with it before when he drafted Eric Berry. I don't think he breaks it two out of three years however, so players like Richardson, DeCastro, and Kuechly don't really seem to warrant a Top 12 pick.

It also seems to eliminate right tackle. It's been two years of Pioli passing over right tackle after right tackle, even with last year's great prospects like Carimi and Castonzo. So I think that takes Martin (who honestly isn't right tackle material to me) and Reiff out of the equation.

Meanwhile, we can eliminate the players that don't fit our defense (Still, Coples).

That leaves us with the corners. You can take Jenkins out of consideration since there is no way Pioli wants a guy with his character questions.

Kirkpatrick is a perfect fit for this team ONLY IF this team lets Brandon Carr walk. If Carr stays on the roster, we really have no need for Kirkpatrick, either.

That leaves me to believe the Chiefs will almost certainly try to trade down until they get a tackle or one of the lesser valued positions (ILB, RB, NT) at a much better value.

htismaqe · 01-10-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannybcaitlyn

The thing is JC hasn't shown or giving the opportunity that he can carry the rock 20 or 25 times a game. Plus our depth behind him is really crap. Richardson will be a stud. Yea we can get a back later but he could be maroney part 2. Grab and o-line in the second.

Enough of a stud that they'll decide we don't need a QB. We can do like the Vikings and take our monster RB and continue to win 4-6 games a season until he's done.

suds79 · 01-10-2012, 08:33 AM

As much as I like Trent Richardson, RB is a position that can easily be found in the mid rounds to late.

Plus it's a position where your guy will likely be done in 5 years.

Can't invest a first in that.

Hammock Parties · 01-10-2012, 08:35 AM

Someone should look at SB RBs in the last 10 years and see how many were 1st round picks.

Extra Point · 01-10-2012, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Marcus Allen...

Dave Szott, Will Shields. Can't run if you can't block, but an excellent RB can make a big diff, as did Allen.

Richardson didn't impress me, until the TD dash. He had an excellent seal.

Wonder how Ingram will fare, in his healing up.

One thing about RB's: Allen was the exception to the rule, in his longevity.

The combine will tell us if Richardson will do well enough, that we can draft him.

htismaqe · 01-10-2012, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Someone should look at SB RBs in the last 10 years and see how many were 1st round picks.

There's that factor but that's less of a concern to me.

My big fear is not taking a RB in the 1st, it's the CHIEFS taking a RB in the 1st.

Clark is about my age. The "peak" of his fandom was Okoye and Word, Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith.

I can TOTALLY see them taking Richardson and thinking that we can get by with a guy like Cassel for another 3-5 years. Continue to strengthen the defense, get another tackle, and run the ball 50 times a game. It's a recipe for exactly what Clark wants, a full stadium. Win 9, 10, 11 games a season. But it's not a recipe for winning in the playoffs.

Urc Burry · 01-10-2012, 08:54 AM

Here is what i'm hoping for:
Resign all our FA's, and Carl Nicks

Trade down into the second round and get a second rounder this year and a 1st next..

Draft:
a combination of Poe and Burfict/Hightower, whichever one is a better fit at this point... and go RT in round 3

**the Talking Can** · 01-10-2012, 08:55 AM

if we aren't moving up for a QB, then moving down makes sense...

there is RB value all over the draft

needs:

QB
....huge gap
RT/NT
C/RB#2/TE#2
ILB/backup safety

**Renegade** · 01-10-2012, 08:58 AM

So if there is no value for us when pick in the first, what team would see value to trade upto our pick. I just don't see us finding a viable trade partner.

tredadda · 01-10-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Yeah because they'd have him throw the ball even less.

Taking Trent Richardson would set this franchise back at least 3 more years.

How? We have given Cassel everything and yet he still sucks. If this team continues to be enamored with Cassel, we might as well make it so he has very little to actually do. If I felt this team actually valued the QB position or felt Cassel was garbage then I would be totally against the Richardson pick. Sadly though I think our horse is hitched with him, so we might as well make running it idiot proof for him. Getting Richardson does just that.

Fansy the Famous Bard · 01-10-2012, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Someone should look at SB RBs in the last 10 years and see how many were 1st round picks.

Super Bowl XLV - Rashard Mendenhall (1st round pick), James Starks (6th round pick) replaced injured starter Brandon Jackson (2nd round pick)

Super Bowl XLIV - Pierre Thomas (Undrafted), Michael Bush (1st round), Joseph Addai (1st round), Donald Brown (1st round)

Super Bowl XLIII - Willie Parker (undrafted), Edgerrin James (1st round)

Super Bowl XLII - Ahmad Bradshaw (7th round), Brandon Jacobs (4th round), Laurence Maroney (1st round), Kevin Faulk (2nd round)

Super Bowl XLI - Joseph Addai (1st round), Dominic Rhodes (undrafted), Thomas Jones (1st round), Cedric Benson (1st round)

There's the last 5.

htismaqe · 01-10-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda

How? We have given Cassel everything and yet he still sucks. If this team continues to be enamored with Cassel, we might as well make it so he has very little to actually do. If I felt this team actually valued the QB position or felt Cassel was garbage then I would be totally against the Richardson pick. Sadly though I think our horse is hitched with him, so we might as well make running it idiot proof for him. Getting Richardson does just that.

So you're all in favor of putting lipstick on the pig?

We need Cassel to play as many snaps without a safety blanket as possible. Once the stadium is empty, he'll finally be gone.

htismaqe · 01-10-2012, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

Super Bowl XLV - Rashard Mendenhall (1st round pick), James Starks (6th round pick) replaced injured starter Brandon Jackson (2nd round pick)

Super Bowl XLIV - Pierre Thomas (Undrafted), Michael Bush (1st round), Joseph Addai (1st round), Donald Brown (1st round)

Super Bowl XLIII - Willie Parker (undrafted), Edgerrin James (1st round)

Super Bowl XLII - Ahmad Bradshaw (7th round), Brandon Jacobs (4th round), Laurence Maroney (1st round), Kevin Faulk (2nd round)

Super Bowl XLI - Joseph Addai (1st round), Dominic Rhodes (undrafted), Thomas Jones (1st round), Cedric Benson (1st round)

There's the last 5.

So basically Bush, James, Jones, and Benson were picked in the top of the 1st round.

tredadda · 01-10-2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Yep.

Taking the stud RB just gives them an excuse to try and go with the dogshit we have at QB.

Marty Ball doesn't work anymore.

What in the past 40+ year history of this franchise makes you think that QB is a priority for this organization? Since the team never has valued the position, nor does it appear that they ever will as long as a Hunt is in charge, why not go out and draft a play maker and hope we win with a good defense, solid running game and average at best QB?

tredadda · 01-10-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

So you're all in favor of putting lipstick on the pig?

We need Cassel to play as many snaps without a safety blanket as possible. Once the stadium is empty, he'll finally be gone.

Reread what I wrote. I would be AGAINST the Richardson pick if I felt QB was a priority for this team. It is not. I have been one of the biggest supporters of dropping Cassel and doing whatever it takes to trade up for Luck or RGIII. I am also a realist, and 40+ years of Chiefs history tells me that they will not address the QB situation in the 1st. They will try to win with a career backup or washed up vet like they have always tried to do. If Cassel fails, he will be replaced with some other back up, like Flynn or something. At least give whomever we throw under center as many play makers as possible to offset their crappiness.

htismaqe · 01-10-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda

What in the past 40+ year history of this franchise makes you think that QB is a priority for this organization? Since the team never has valued the position, nor does it appear that they ever will as long as a Hunt is in charge, why not go out and draft a play maker and hope we win with a good defense, solid running game and average at best QB?

Hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

If they can't see it, we need to do everything we can to MAKE him fail. His level of suck needs to slap Clark Hunt in the face and FORCE him to fire Pioli.

I'm tired of 8-8 years filled with heartbreak.

I'd rather lose 10 games a year for the next 10 if that's what it takes to push them to make the moves necessary.

01-10-2012, 12:00 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2083447	Starting to think the Chiefs will need to trade down... or... Normally I do not advocate this stuff, because I am usually not a fan of trading down in the first round. But I've been looking over the talent in this upcoming draft and I think this might need to be the case. First, let's take a look at the elite talent that has no chance of making it out of the first round: QB Andrew Luck, Stanford QB Robert Griffin, Baylor WR Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma State OT Matt Kalil, USC CB Morris Claiborne, LSU The remaining top tier talent doesn't really match up value with what we want, with one major exception. RB Trent Richardson, Alabama WR Alshon Jeffrey, South Carolina OT Jonathan Martin, Stanford OT Riley Reiff, Iowa OG David DeCastro, Stanford DT Devin Still, Penn State DE Quentin Coples, North Carolina ILB Luke Kuechly, Boston College CB Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama Scott Pioli is a legit believer in draft value, though he has broken with it before when he drafted Eric Berry. I don't think he breaks it two out of three years however, so players like Richardson, DeCastro, and Kuechly don't really seem to warrant a Top 12 pick. It also seems to eliminate right tackle. It's been two years of Pioli passing over right tackle after right tackle, even with last year's great prospects like Carimi and Castonzo. So I think that takes Martin (who honestly isn't right tackle material to me) and Reiff out of the equation. Meanwhile, we can eliminate the players that don't fit our defense (Still, Coples). That leaves us with the corners. You can take Jenkins out of consideration since there is no way Pioli wants a guy with his character questions. Kirkpatrick is a perfect fit for this team ONLY IF this team lets Brandon Carr walk. If Carr stays on the roster, we really have no need for Kirkpatrick, either. That leaves me to believe the Chiefs will almost certainly try to trade down until they get a tackle or one of the lesser valued positions (ILB, RB, NT) at a much better value.
Posts: 59,692

01-10-2012, 08:33 AM	#32
suds79 MVP Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10005036	As much as I like Trent Richardson, RB is a position that can easily be found in the mid rounds to late. Plus it's a position where your guy will likely be done in 5 years. Can't invest a first in that.
Posts: 5,747

01-10-2012, 08:35 AM	#33
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $960478	Someone should look at SB RBs in the last 10 years and see how many were 1st round picks. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 296,880

01-10-2012, 08:54 AM	#36
Urc Burry Veteran Join Date: Jan 2011 Casino cash: $8621048	Here is what i'm hoping for: Resign all our FA's, and Carl Nicks Trade down into the second round and get a second rounder this year and a 1st next.. Draft: a combination of Poe and Burfict/Hightower, whichever one is a better fit at this point... and go RT in round 3
Posts: 2,558

01-10-2012, 08:55 AM	#37
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $9312208	if we aren't moving up for a QB, then moving down makes sense... there is RB value all over the draft needs: QB ....huge gap RT/NT C/RB#2/TE#2 ILB/backup safety __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585

01-10-2012, 08:58 AM	#38
Renegade Just Lurking Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ozark Mountain Country Casino cash: $-1812096	So if there is no value for us when pick in the first, what team would see value to trade upto our pick. I just don't see us finding a viable trade partner.
Posts: 2,121