Should those who in our armed forces deserve entitlements?

[El Jefe]

Let me preface this by saying that I am one of the Patriotic members here on CP. Those of you who know me know how many threads I have posted honoring those who served/serve our country. But I was dissappointed today in our local Speedway gas station. There was 2 Marines driving a big Military SUV vehicle and they were walking into to Speedway in full attire. I was next to them and I thanked them for serving our country to which neither replied to me, I thought they didn't hear me. So I said it again, and the one guy said "Yeah we heard you the first time". At this point I left it alone. At this time another little convoy pulled up (I would assume from the same group), they were in full garb as well. They congregate around the slushy machine and they all get one (there was maybe 10 of them).

They come up to pay for the slushies and they ask where Chris is? Chris is the manager down there, I know because I buy a big gulp almost every day, and I know the people who work there. The cashier says "Im sorry Chris isn't in today" she then tells them their total and they start going nuts. The main guy says CHRIS NEVER MAKES US PAY!!! I AM NOT PAYING!! The cashier says that she's sorry, but she cannot give the slushies away or it will come out of her pay. The Marine then says "Do you know who the F we are? We are F-ing Marines, and we protect your God damn Country Bit**". At this time the other Marines in the group started chattering and saying how ridiculous this was that they wouldn't give them drinks. The cashier says "serve If I give it to you I would have to give it to everyone else, I am not the manager and I cannot give them to you, you can either pay for them or leave them here". The Marine then says F YOU!! The cashier then says if they don't leave they will call the cops. They leave, and they refuse to pay for their slushies. Everyone in the store has the David at the Dentist "Is this real life" look on their face.

I am all for being generous to those who protect us and I try to pick up the tab for them at fast food places, or pay for their big gulps, but I was shocked to see that behavior. The sad thing was there was at least 10 of them, and not one of them would say this is ridiculous.

My question, when those who volunteer to serve our Country demand things or expect entitlements, do you think they should be able to do that? Or should they not be able to do that?

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by frazod

It's also not like everybody who puts on a uniform is Captain America. All kinds of people in the service, just like anywhere else. Some are pricks. Some are really big pricks. I spent my last three years at the Great Lakes Legal Service Office involved in court-martialing lots of them, and believe me, I saw the hind end of the recruiting spectrum.

If you take some guy who was a loudmouth bullying douche before and turn him into a Marine, sometimes you just end up with a loudmouth bullying douche with a serious attitude problem and combat skills.

Not to mention all of the young criminal offenders who are given the choice of either going to jail or joining the Army, Marines.
There is a certain breed of people who are in the military (definitely not the majority) that are ****ed up in the head. I'll never forget the three Marines who were laughing as they told me the story of how they threw a grenade into a house right after they looked in and saw a woman cooking breakfast for a small child in Iraq. He could tell I was disgusted, and he said: "hey, Bush came over the television and told them to get out of the area. Hahahahahaha"
Or the other huge Jarhead who told me that he raped an Iraqi girl AFTER she'd pissed he pants from being so scared.

[Coyote]

Originally Posted by demonhero

Please don't report these Marines.... I don't want to sit for a 4 hour lecture about how Marines aren't supposed to wear utilities outside the base. Google pulls up that Ohio has an infantry reserve regiment, but what the **** are they doing in late June.

Point Accepted but too late. CO 24th Mar anbd CO 1/24 are aware. May or may not be their Marines.

ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE MARINE CORPS ETHICS STAND-DOWN PERIOD OF INSTRUCTION
Date Signed: 5/10/2012
MARADMIN Active Number: 258/12 2012

R 101212Z MAY 12
UNCLASSIFIED//
MARADMIN 258/12
MSGID/GENADMIN/CG EDCOM PRES MCU QUANTICO//
SUBJ/ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE MARINE CORPS ETHICS STAND-DOWN PERIOD OF INSTRUCTION//
POC/C. T. HEDLESTON/LTCOL/LEJEUNE LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE/TEL: DSN 278-4688 COMM: 703-432-4688/EMAIL: CHAD.HEDLESTON(AT)USMC.MIL//
GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. SITUATION. THE COMMANDANT TASKED MARINE CORPS UNIVERSITY (MCU) TO DEVELOP A MARINE CORPS-WIDE PERIOD OF INSTRUCTION (POI) ADDRESSING ETHICAL BEHAVIOR BY MARINES. MCU DEVELOPED AND PRESENTED A DRAFT ETHICS POI AT THE 2012 RUSSELL LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE TO 125 MARINES FROM THE OPERATING FORCES FOR REVIEW AND COMMENT. THE COMMANDANT DIRECTED THIS APPROVED POI BE DELIVERED TO THE FORCE AS PART OF A LARGER MARINE CORPS-WIDE ETHICS STAND-DOWN. MCU PERSONNEL WILL DELIVER THIS POI, "DEVELOPING ETHICAL LEADERS", TO ALL O-6 AND O-5 COMMANDERS AND THEIR SENIOR ENLISTED ADVISORS. MAXIMUM ATTENDANCE AT EACH PERIOD OF INSTRUCTION SHOULD NOT EXCEED 200.
2. MISSION. BEGINNING 18 JUNE AND ENDING NO LATER THAN 29 JUNE, MCU WILL DELIVER THE CMC-APPROVED POI "DEVELOPING ETHICAL LEADERS" TO O-6 AND O-5 LEVEL COMMANDERS AND THEIR SENIOR ENLISTED ADVISORS AT MAJOR BASES AND STATIONS. COMMANDERS ARE THEN DIRECTED TO CONDUCT A ONE-DAY UNIT STAND- DOWN TO ADDRESS ETHICAL BEHAVIOR WITH THEIR MARINES. CMC WILL ESTABLISH THE DATE(S) FOR THE ETHICAL STAND-DOWN VIA SEPCOR.
3. EXECUTION
A. COMMANDER'S INTENT AND CONCEPT OF OPERATIONS
(1) COMMANDER'S INTENT:
PURPOSE: IN SUPPORT OF CMC WHITE LETTER NO. 1-12, MCU HAS DEVELOPED A CMC-APPROVED ETHICS POI TITLED "DEVELOPING ETHICAL LEADERS". MCU WILL PROVIDE INSTRUCTION ON THE ETHICS POI TO COMMANDERS (O-6 AND O-5 AND THEIR SENIOR ENLISTED ADVISORS) IN SUPPORT OF A MARINE CORPS WIDE-ETHICS STAND-DOWN. THIS POI WILL BE A "TRAIN THE TRAINER" EVENT. ALL PARTICIPANTS SHOULD VIEW THIS POI AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADVANCE THE ETHICAL TRAINING, EDUCATION, AND PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR MARINES.
METHOD: MCU, IN COORDINATION WITH BASES/STATIONS, WILL PROVIDE INSTRUCTIONAL TEAMS TO DELIVER THE ETHICS POI TO COMMANDERS (O-6 AND O-5) AND THEIR SENIOR ENLISTED ADVISORS. BASE/STATION COMMANDERS WILL COORDINATE SEAT ALLOCATIONS/ASSIGNMENTS WITH TENANT COMMANDS. MCU INSTRUCTIONAL TEAMS WILL VISIT MAJOR BASES AND STATIONS IOT PROVIDE INSTRUCTION ON THE POI. THE POI AND THE INSTRUCTIONAL MATERIAL WILL PROVIDE A FRAMEWORK FOR COMMANDERS TO DISCUSS ETHICAL BEHAVIOR WITH THEIR MARINES. MCU INSTRUCTIONAL TEAMS WILL CONCLUDE ALL TRAINING NLT 29 JUNE 2012.
ENDSTATE: THIS ONE-DAY "DEVELOPING ETHICAL LEADERS" TRAIN THE TRAINER POI WILL ENABLE COMMAND LEADERSHIP TO FUNCTION AS THE PRIMARY ETHICS INSTRUCTOR FOR THEIR RESPECTIVE UNITS. IT WILL ENABLE PARTICIPANTS TO TRAIN AND EDUCATE MARINES IN ETHICAL DECISION-MAKING PROCESSES AND PROVIDE A CATALYST FOR ON-GOING DISCUSSION AND DEBATE. LEADERS WILL HAVE A DEEPENED UNDERSTANDING OF OUR ETHOS, AND BE BETTER ABLE TO RECOGNIZE AND EXPLAIN ETHICAL CHALLENGES. THIS WILL FACILITATE THE DEVELOPMENT OF A LASTING, POSITIVE ETHICAL CULTURE AND CLIMATE.
(2) CONCEPT OF OPERATIONS: BEGINNING 18 JUNE 2012, FOUR MCU INSTRUCTIONAL TEAMS, COMPRISED OF (1) MCU PROFESSOR AND (1) UNIFORMED INSTRUCTOR, WILL SIMULTANEOUSLY DELIVER THE "DEVELOPING ETHICAL LEADERS" POI AT FOUR MAJOR GEOGRAPHICAL REGIONS. MCU INSTRUCTIONAL TEAMS WILL DELIVER ONE ITERATION OF THE POI PER DAY. INSTRUCTIONAL TEAMS CANNOT BE SPLIT AND TEAMS WILL BE ABLE TO SERVICE ONLY ONE LOCATION PER TRAINING SESSION. MCU REQUESTS THAT ATTENDANCE NOT EXCEED 200 PERSONS PER INSTRUCTIONAL PERIOD. THE POI LOCATIONS/DATES ARE AS FOLLOWS:
EAST COAST (18 JUNE-29 JUNE)
18 JUNE MCAS CHERRY POINT, NC
19 JUNE MCAS NEW RIVER, NC
20-22 JUNE MCB CAMP LEJEUNE, NC
25 JUNE MCRD PARRIS ISLAND, SC
26 JUNE MCAS BEAUFORT, SC
28 JUNE MCSF NEW ORLEANS, LA
WEST COAST (18 JUNE-29 JUNE)
18-20 JUNE MCB CAMP PENDLETON, CA
21 JUNE MCAS MIRAMAR, CA
22 JUNE MCRD SAN DIEGO, CA
25 JUNE MC AIR GROUND COMBAT CENTER, CA
27 JUNE MCAS YUMA, AZ
WESTERN PACIFIC (18 JUNE-29 JUNE)
18-22 JUNE MCB OKINAWA, JAPAN
25-26 JUNE MCB HAWAII, HI
NCR (19 JUNE-22 JUNE)
19-20 JUNE MCB QUANTICO, VA
21 JUNE JB FT MEYER/HENDERSON HALL
B. COORDINATING INSTRUCTIONS
(1) BRIEFING LOCATION SUPPORT: BASES AND STATIONS WILL COORDINATE WITH THEIR TENANT COMMANDS IOT ENSURE THAT ADEQUATE SPACE IS AVAILABLE TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS.
(2) AUDIO/VISUAL SUPPORT: BASES AND STATIONS WILL ENSURE THAT A COMPUTER, PROJECTOR, AND MICROPHONE SYSTEM ARE PROVIDED AND READY FOR USE BY MCU INSTRUCTIONAL TEAMS AT EACH BRIEFING LOCATION.
(3) BRIEFING TIMEFRAME: 0800-1500.
(4) BASE/STATION G-3 ARE REQUESTED TO PROVIDE INSTALLATION POC TO MCU AND TENANT COMMANDS NLT 10 DAYS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL IOT FACILITATE SUPPORT.
(5) IN COORDINATION WITH BASE/STATION POC, COMMANDERS MAY DESIGNATE ADDITIONAL SUBORDINATE LEADERS TO ATTEND THE TRAINING ON A SPACE AVAILABLE BASIS.
(6) BASE/STATION COMMANDERS WILL COORDINATE SEAT ALLOCATIONS/ASSIGNMENTS WITH TENANT COMMANDS. MAXIMUM ATTENDANCE AT EACH PERIOD OF INSTRUCTION SHOULD NOT EXCEED 200.
4. ADMINISTRATION AND LOGISTICS
A. ADMINISTRATION. REQUEST BASES/STATIONS AND TENANT COMMANDS RESIDING AT THE LOCATIONS LISTED IN 3.A.(2) REVIEW THE TENTATIVE DATES AND ADVISE POC (LISTED IN PARA 5) OF SCHEDULING CONFLICTS NLT 30 MAY 2012. UPON CONFIRMATION OF TENTATIVE DATE(S), MCU WILL PROVIDE, VIA SEPCOR, A DETAILED VISIT SCHEDULE.
B. LOGISTICS
(1) FUNDING. MCU WILL FUND ALL TRAVEL, LODGING, AND RENTAL EXPENSES FOR MCU PERSONNEL.
(2) FACILITIES. EACH BASE/STATION AND COMMAND WILL HAVE UNIQUE REQUIREMENTS DUE TO UNIT SIZE/COMPOSITION; THEREFORE, DESIGNATED BASES/STATIONS AND COMMANDS POC MUST ENSURE THE PROPER FACILITIES ARE COORDINATED FOR ALL BRIEFS AND DISCUSSION SESSIONS.
5. COMMAND AND SIGNAL. MAXIMUM PARTICIPATION BY ALL LEVELS OF COMMAND IS ESSENTIAL. DETAILED INFORMATION FOR ACCESS TO THE MCU POI WILL BE PUBLISHED (SEPCOR). FOR ALL OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT LTCOL CHAD HEDLESTON AT CHAD.HEDLESTON(AT)USMC.MIL OR COMM: 703-432-4688 AND MAJ JASON BOGDEN AT JASON.BOGDEN(AT)USMC.MIL OR COMM 703-432-4726.
6. RESERVE APPLICABILITY. THIS MARADMIN IS APPLICABLE TO THE MARINE CORPS RESERVE.
7. RELEASE AUTHORIZED BY MAJGEN T. M. MURRAY; COMMANDING GENERAL, EDUCATION COMMAND; PRESIDENT, MARINE CORPS UNIVERSITY.//

[Rain Man]

I find it funny that Marine memos always yell everything.

[seclark]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I find it funny that Marine memos always yell everything.

i'd buy a marine a slurpy just to find out what that memo actually means. i got a headache after the 2nd line.
sec

[Old Dog]

Originally Posted by seclark

i'd buy a marine a slurpy just to find out what that memo actually means. i got a headache after the 2nd line.
sec

Wasn't a Marine, but in a nutshell:
The Commandant of the Marine Corps has decided that all 0-5 and 0-6 Commanders (Lt Colonels and Colonels.....generally in charge of batttalion elements which range in sizes from a few hundred to about 1,500) will go to a one day "developing ethical leaders" class by 29 June.
They will in turn train their Marines on that same topic.


Smaller nutshell and more realistic version:
Hey, don't get caught doing dumb shit and tell your troops to stop getting caught too.

[Old Dog]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Not to mention all of the young criminal offenders who are given the choice of either going to jail or joining the Army, Marines.

I don't believe this is a common occurence today (though I could be mistaken). 15-20 years ago, it absolutely happened. In the 70s however it was a very common practice.

Originally Posted by beach tribe

There is a certain breed of people who are in the military (definitely not the majority) that are ****ed up in the head.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this is aligned with a saying that just bugs me. I hear something akin to, "Boy the military sure has changed since my day" all the damn time.
It's NOT the military that has changed, IT'S SOCIETY AS A WHOLE.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by seclark

i'd buy a marine a slurpy just to find out what that memo actually means. i got a headache after the 2nd line.
sec

I could translate it into readable English, but since I DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT SHIT ANYMORE, I won't.

[Coyote]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I find it funny that Marine memos always yell everything.

True. Naval message format to reach ships. No idea why. Guess it beats Naval Flags:

XrayStop carrying out your intentions and watch for my signals.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Old Dog

I don't believe this is a common occurence today (though I could be mistaken). 15-20 years ago, it absolutely happened. In the 70s however it was a very common practice.



I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this is aligned with a saying that just bugs me. I hear something akin to, "Boy the military sure has changed since my day" all the damn time.
It's NOT the military that has changed, IT'S SOCIETY AS A WHOLE.

As a current Army recruiter I can say that this does not happen. A recruiter can and will lose his/her career if they advise someone on that. The "go to war or go to jail" mentality is long gone and the Army will not accept anyone who falls into that category. Also as a recruiter, I can totally agree with the second bolded statement.

[demonhero]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Not to mention all of the young criminal offenders who are given the choice of either going to jail or joining the Army, Marines.
There is a certain breed of people who are in the military (definitely not the majority) that are ****ed up in the head. I'll never forget the three Marines who were laughing as they told me the story of how they threw a grenade into a house right after they looked in and saw a woman cooking breakfast for a small child in Iraq. He could tell I was disgusted, and he said: "hey, Bush came over the television and told them to get out of the area. Hahahahahaha"
Or the other huge Jarhead who told me that he raped an Iraqi girl AFTER she'd pissed he pants from being so scared.

Try getting into the Marines with a record.. This isn't 20 years ago when they used the old go to jail or join deal.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by demonhero

Try getting into the Marines with a record.. This isn't 20 years ago when they used the old go to jail or join deal.

Not to mention it sounded to me like he was talking to 2 guys who never left a desk but are big story tellers trying to talk tough and mean.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by Old Dog

A quick search says that the average salary for a policeman is 42K.
A E-3 with 1 year of service will fall shy of that, bringing in 36,500 figuring his base pay of 21K, BAS of 4.5K, and BAH of 11K (I used Ft Leavenworth as it's the nearest base to KC).
I believe that if you add in medical care it tips the scales a bit, but I admittedly don't know what the average family pays for all inclusive medical insurance.
Add in deployment type pays and it is way on the side of the servicemember though.

If I would have gone with a E-4 it probably would have helped my side of the conversation a bit more

You should see what police make in some of the corrupt cities here in Florida. In Cape Coral which is right across the river from where I live, one police sergeant retired at $77,000 base salary. Because of sweetheart deals cut between the union and city officials, that sergeant is making $122,000 in retirement pension.

[boogblaster]

if been in active duty .. yes .....

[Titty Meat]

No **** them

[midwest]

people like that make our military look like assholes.