Chiefs Andy Reid seems to think all Tackles are created equal . . . - Page 5

TomBarndtsTwin · 05-02-2013, 10:16 PM

If history is any indication, Andy Reid seems to value an elite Right Tackle just as much as an elite Left Tackle:

Eagles make OT Runyan highest-paid lineman ever

Click here for more on this story
Posted: Monday February 14, 2000 08:30 PM

Jon Runyan rejected a six-year deal from the Tennessee Titans. Ezra O. Shaw/Allsport
PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- The Philadelphia Eagles broke ground on a $25 million practice facility and signed a $30 million free agent Monday.

Jon Runyan, a 6-foot-7, 330-pound right tackle, became the highest-paid offensive lineman in NFL history when he signed a 6-year, $30 million deal. Runyan, 26, leaves the AFC Champion Tennessee Titans for an Eagles team that is coming off a 5-11 season.

"It was going to take something to get me out of Tennessee and here I am," Runyan said. "There's a great feeling around here. The team is moving in the right direction. They stepped up and made the decision easy on the business end."

Runyan, who arrived in Philadelphia late Saturday night, said all along his decision would come down to money. Runyan's agent, Ben Dogra, said Tennessee offered him a six-year deal in excess of the $27 million package Cleveland gave to free-agent tackle Orlando Brown last year. However, the Eagles' offer is significantly more front-end loaded.

"There was no bidding war," Dogra said, adding that the Eagles initial offer was lower than the Titans'. "Tennessee had an offer to make him the highest paid lineman. We asked them if they would move on their offer. They probably called our bluff, thinking they would be bidding against themselves."

Runyan received a $6 million signing bonus and will get an additional $3.5 million if he is on the roster Feb. 21. His base salary for the 2000 season is $500,000. Runyan will count $5 million against the salary cap this year. He will earn $3.5 million in 2001-03. His salary increases to $4.5 in 2004 and $5.5 million in 2005. A Pro Bowl clause could make the final year worth $6.5 million.

"He's the best right tackle in football, bar none," Eagles coach Andy Reid said. "Everything starts with the offensive line. Having that philosophy, he is a key ingredient. He's a big part of this."

Runyan, a four-year veteran, played for three, 8-8 Titans teams prior to Tennessee's Super Bowl run this year. He believes there are similarities between his former team and his new team.

"I feel comfortable here," Runyan said. "They have a great, young quarterback [Donovan McNabb], a good running back [Duce Staley] and a solid defense. It's hard to turn down."

Runyan will team with 6-foot-7, 350-pound left tackle Tra Thomas to give the Eagles formidable bookend tackles. He helps solidify an offensive line unit that has not played well consistently since the early 1980s. The last offensive lineman to represent the Eagles in the Pro Bowl was Jerry Sisemore in 1982. Runyan also allows the Eagles to address other needs, namely wide receiver and defensive line, with the No. 6 pick in April's draft.

"This is obviously a position we feel secure at," Reid said. "Does it mean we won't take another lineman in the draft? No."

Runyan was scheduled to leave Philadelphia on Sunday. However, he decided to stay another day as a good faith gesture to prove he was serious about the Eagles. The team has been burned by free agents in the past who used their visit to Philadelphia as a bargaining tool. Dogra said he had not scheduled any other visits for Runyan though several teams are believed to have expressed interest.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo..._ap/?mobile=no

Just thought this was interesting to read so many years later . . . .

Some food for thought . . . . or discussion . . .

Sweet Daddy Hate · 05-03-2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMc

I suggest we wait until they actually play before determining whether they are "elite" or not, but I realise that's unfashionable.

YES, WHY DON'T WE TRY THAT? Herein lies the butthurt: We know beyond a shadow of doubt what Alex Smith is bringing to this party: a game-managing bag o' dickhammers. Period. We can not possibly BEGIN to know what Geno and the other QB's will bring to their teams. Not a mother****ing chance in hell can you know. Not TODAY, mother****ers! But soon...
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keg in kc · 05-03-2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

And that's a GREAT reason to piss away a one/one on a Tackle! Woot!
Posted via Mobile Device

Well, I also think he (meaning Fisher) was the top player on their board. While I didn't see him as an elite prospect, it's pretty clear that they did.

And this draft appeared to be exactly what some of us had been saying all along, it seems after listening to and reading a lot of post-draft discussion. If there were any elite prospects, the list started and ended with Fisher and Joeckel (both arguable in my mind...). This was a first round filled with what would normally be mid-first to mid-second prospects. Unfortunately for us, so was the entire second round. This would've been a great year to have that 34th pick.

keg in kc · 05-03-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMc

Fisher is more than 6 years younger than Albert. Even is Albert signs another LTD, he will realistically be in KC what, another 3 or 4 seasons? At which point Fisher will only be in his mid 20s. Won't it be nice to not have Joe Slapdick playing LT like happened after Roaf retired?

I was not making any kind of value judgement on the selection (as you can see in the last post I made, which obviously you couldn't have seen since I hadn't finished it yet).

However, if that really was the plan, you don't need the 1.1 for that, and you don't have to do it 3-4 years ahead of time.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 05-03-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Agreed for the most part.

The reason Smith was drafted in the 2nd and Bray went undrafted has a lot more to do with the worst-case scenario, rather than the best.

But if the worst-case scenario plays itself out for both teams, who would you rather be? The Jets, who spent a second round pick on a guy that will never be more than average. Or the Chiefs, who signed an UDFA who is out of football in a couple years?

If the goal is always to obtain a "franchise" QB, which I believe it should be, then I would much rather be the Chiefs than the Jets.

I think I'd rather be the team not relying on UDFA's to "beat the odds". Goddamnit man, this ISN'T "Rudy" for ****'s sake...
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keg in kc · 05-03-2013, 10:47 PM

It was interesting listening to Dorsey's interview on Between the Lines yesterday. He basically said the character issues being expressed in the articles about Geno Smith post draft were a load of bullshit that he didn't see in our interview with him.

TomBarndtsTwin · 05-03-2013, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Because they went early doesn't make them elite.

No, it doesn't. But most NFL scouts (guys that get paid lots of $$$$$ to do this for a living) thought the elite 'potential' existed at the Tackle spot, whereas almost all scouts across the board thought the 'potential' of the QB class was weak.

Don't believe me? Look at the results of the draft . . . .

HMc · 05-03-2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Agreed for the most part.

The reason Smith was drafted in the 2nd and Bray went undrafted has a lot more to do with the worst-case scenario, rather than the best.

But if the worst-case scenario plays itself out for both teams, who would you rather be? The Jets, who spent a second round pick on a guy that will never be more than average. Or the Chiefs, who signed an UDFA who is out of football in a couple years?

If the goal is always to obtain a "franchise" QB, which I believe it should be, then I would much rather be the Chiefs than the Jets.

That entirely contradicts the rest of your post.

Even if their ceilings are identical, Smith looks about 100 times more likely to reach it.

So you approve of signing undrafted QBs in the search of a franchise QB? And you prefer that to spending the ~40th pick on a guy that had am awful lot of 1st round noise about him? Seriously?

Sweet Daddy Hate · 05-03-2013, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Well, I also think he (meaning Fisher) was the top player on their board. While I didn't see him as an elite prospect, it's pretty clear that they did.

And this draft appeared to be exactly what some of us had been saying all along, it seems after listening to and reading a lot of post-draft discussion. If there were any elite prospects, the list started and ended with Fisher and Joeckel (both arguable in my mind...). This was a first round filled with what would normally be mid-first to mid-second prospects. Unfortunately for us, so was the entire second round. This would've been a great year to have that 34th pick.

Exactly. The "top tier" was in reality second-tier at best. Soooooooo....why not draft the best available QB for tuteledge under Reid and all these other supercalifragilistic coaches, instead of herp-derping with a ****ing O-line that was easily serviceable to a QB not named "Cassel"?
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KChiefs1 · 05-03-2013, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

Doesn't excuse not having or trying to find an elite quarterback. Getting one from the draft is a good place to start.

You do understand that no one thought there was a franchise QB in this draft.

keg in kc · 05-03-2013, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Exactly. The "top tier" was in reality second-tier at best. Soooooooo....why not draft the best available QB for tuteledge under Reid and all these other supercalifragilistic coaches, instead of herp-derping with a ****ing O-line that was easily serviceable to a QB not named "Cassel"?
Posted via Mobile Device

It was never, ever going to happen. I think we all knew that all along. Or we should have.

TomBarndtsTwin · 05-03-2013, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

I think I'd rather be the team not relying on UDFA's to "beat the odds". Goddamnit man, this ISN'T "Rudy" for ****'s sake...
Posted via Mobile Device

"Relying on" is a little strong, don't you think?

I think the Chiefs just took a shot on an UDFA and said 'what the hell, why not?'

You would prefer they spend a #1 pick on the 'best' QB in a sh*t QB class?

JaMarcus Russell says hello . . . .

HMc · 05-03-2013, 10:57 PM

there are 3 or so teams with fairly sketchy arrangements in place at the QB position that passed twice on every QB not named Manuel. If Geno Smith ends up being Giovanni Carmazzi, won't people be glad he wasn't picked? I thought this was a standard QB class as opposed to last year's super-class. It seems the teams thought it was the 2000 draft.

Single and multiple teams **** up in the draft all the time. EVERY SINGLE TEAM doesn't usually do it.

TomBarndtsTwin · 05-03-2013, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

You do understand that no one thought there was a franchise QB in this draft.

This.

keg in kc · 05-03-2013, 10:58 PM

Forget about #1. How about spending #34 on the ''best' QB in a shit QB class". He would've been there, and they'd have looked like geniuses for doing it.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 05-03-2013, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

"Relying on" is a little strong, don't you think?

I think the Chiefs just took a shot on an UDFA and said 'what the hell, why not?'

You would prefer they spend a #1 pick on the 'best' QB in a sh*t QB class?

JaMarcus Russell says hello . . . .

By all means NO. I'd prefer we keep our outstanding track record of success with other peoples cast-offs!
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05-02-2013, 10:16 PM
TomBarndtsTwin MVP Join Date: Mar 2013 Casino cash: $2429883	Andy Reid seems to think all Tackles are created equal . . . If history is any indication, Andy Reid seems to value an elite Right Tackle just as much as an elite Left Tackle: Eagles make OT Runyan highest-paid lineman ever Click here for more on this story Posted: Monday February 14, 2000 08:30 PM Jon Runyan rejected a six-year deal from the Tennessee Titans. Ezra O. Shaw/Allsport PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- The Philadelphia Eagles broke ground on a $25 million practice facility and signed a $30 million free agent Monday. Jon Runyan, a 6-foot-7, 330-pound right tackle, became the highest-paid offensive lineman in NFL history when he signed a 6-year, $30 million deal. Runyan, 26, leaves the AFC Champion Tennessee Titans for an Eagles team that is coming off a 5-11 season. "It was going to take something to get me out of Tennessee and here I am," Runyan said. "There's a great feeling around here. The team is moving in the right direction. They stepped up and made the decision easy on the business end." Runyan, who arrived in Philadelphia late Saturday night, said all along his decision would come down to money. Runyan's agent, Ben Dogra, said Tennessee offered him a six-year deal in excess of the $27 million package Cleveland gave to free-agent tackle Orlando Brown last year. However, the Eagles' offer is significantly more front-end loaded. "There was no bidding war," Dogra said, adding that the Eagles initial offer was lower than the Titans'. "Tennessee had an offer to make him the highest paid lineman. We asked them if they would move on their offer. They probably called our bluff, thinking they would be bidding against themselves." Runyan received a $6 million signing bonus and will get an additional $3.5 million if he is on the roster Feb. 21. His base salary for the 2000 season is $500,000. Runyan will count $5 million against the salary cap this year. He will earn $3.5 million in 2001-03. His salary increases to $4.5 in 2004 and $5.5 million in 2005. A Pro Bowl clause could make the final year worth $6.5 million. "He's the best right tackle in football, bar none," Eagles coach Andy Reid said. "Everything starts with the offensive line. Having that philosophy, he is a key ingredient. He's a big part of this." Runyan, a four-year veteran, played for three, 8-8 Titans teams prior to Tennessee's Super Bowl run this year. He believes there are similarities between his former team and his new team. "I feel comfortable here," Runyan said. "They have a great, young quarterback [Donovan McNabb], a good running back [Duce Staley] and a solid defense. It's hard to turn down." Runyan will team with 6-foot-7, 350-pound left tackle Tra Thomas to give the Eagles formidable bookend tackles. He helps solidify an offensive line unit that has not played well consistently since the early 1980s. The last offensive lineman to represent the Eagles in the Pro Bowl was Jerry Sisemore in 1982. Runyan also allows the Eagles to address other needs, namely wide receiver and defensive line, with the No. 6 pick in April's draft. "This is obviously a position we feel secure at," Reid said. "Does it mean we won't take another lineman in the draft? No." Runyan was scheduled to leave Philadelphia on Sunday. However, he decided to stay another day as a good faith gesture to prove he was serious about the Eagles. The team has been burned by free agents in the past who used their visit to Philadelphia as a bargaining tool. Dogra said he had not scheduled any other visits for Runyan though several teams are believed to have expressed interest. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo..._ap/?mobile=no Just thought this was interesting to read so many years later . . . . Some food for thought . . . . or discussion . . .
Posts: 10,256

05-03-2013, 10:47 PM	#65
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	It was interesting listening to Dorsey's interview on Between the Lines yesterday. He basically said the character issues being expressed in the articles about Geno Smith post draft were a load of bullshit that he didn't see in our interview with him.
Posts: 58,682

05-03-2013, 10:57 PM	#72
HMc from the very deep south. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia. Casino cash: $9944900	there are 3 or so teams with fairly sketchy arrangements in place at the QB position that passed twice on every QB not named Manuel. If Geno Smith ends up being Giovanni Carmazzi, won't people be glad he wasn't picked? I thought this was a standard QB class as opposed to last year's super-class. It seems the teams thought it was the 2000 draft. Single and multiple teams **** up in the draft all the time. EVERY SINGLE TEAM doesn't usually do it.
Posts: 2,792

05-03-2013, 10:58 PM	#74
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Forget about #1. How about spending #34 on the ''best' QB in a shit QB class". He would've been there, and they'd have looked like geniuses for doing it.
Posts: 58,682