Science Spinoff: Second Hand Smoke Risks: Fact or Fiction? - Page 3

**AustinChief** · 06-01-2012, 01:42 AM

I know we have had this debate before but I feel like getting a fresh perspective on this.

I would like to hear people's beliefs on the subject BUT I won't accept a simple "well the CDC says this or Penn and Teller say that"... as support. You have to actually presents FACTS.

I personally don't think a legit study has been done to prove a statistically significant health risk to second hand smoke. That doesn't mean that risks don't exist.. that means that there is no hard science backing up the idea.

HAIL SCIENCE!

Ok, I'll start with my facts backing up this up in the next post....

**Saul Good** · 06-01-2012, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCUnited

It is a lot easier for my son to enjoy his chili cheese burger and mozzarella sticks without someone's second hand smoke blowing in his face. Plus, I feel better about it.

It's a lot easier for me to hold a conversation when music isn't blaring. That's why loud music should be outlawed in public.

**Kyle DeLexus** · 06-01-2012, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

It's a lot easier for me to hold a conversation when music isn't blaring blaring. That's why loud music should be outlawed in public.

Amen. Let's also ban the morbidly obese and kids from flying.

stevieray · 06-01-2012, 07:30 AM

...this crap again?

my clothes! my clothes!

KCUnited · 06-01-2012, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

It's a lot easier for me to hold a conversation when music isn't blaring. That's why loud music should be outlawed in public.

Agreed, especially if it's post 1994.

**Saul Good** · 06-01-2012, 07:34 AM

Sad movies can lead to depression. Let's outlaw them. Attractive models can lead to negative body images. Let's ban them.

In fact, let's ban everything, then everyone will be happy. Nobody gets any rights.

**luv** · 06-01-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Cigarette smoke is filthy and disgusting. I am 33 years old and have literally never smoked a cigarette in my life. I love non-smoking bars.

That said, the studies I have read don't support second hand smoke being more than a nuisance. Loud music at a bar is more dangerous than smoke. Let the property owner decide what to allow, and the customers can decide where to go.

I know we're off topic with the point of the thread, but I agree with this 100%. We passed a smoking ban in Springfield a year ago. It's up on the ballot again this year.

Even as a non-smoker, I believe it should be up to the business owner whether or not to allow it in their place of business. I frequent restaurants that have bars, and I usually sit at the bar or in the bar section. Smoke never really bothered me, and people sitting around me were usually courteous about it. Now, people have to go outside to smoke. I don't know about those people who always bitch about "leaving smelling like an ash tray" (I never did, and I said at the ****ing bar), but I think this is much worse. They smoke out by the front door, so it hits you like a ton of bricks when you first walk out the door, or before you ever even go in.

If you don't like smoking establishments, then you have the right to go somewhere else. If you don't like it, then don't go someplace you know allows smoking in the first place. It's not rocket science.

However, the issue up for a vote here is for an amendment to the issue that passed last year. It would allow smoking in private clubs, businesses that sell tobacco products, etc.

Zebedee DuBois · 06-01-2012, 07:40 AM

Do we all agree that smoking increases chances of disease? I hope we can agree on that.

After that, it is just a matter of degree/exposure. What dosage is required to reach the tripping point of increased health risk?

I don't think it is a huge leap of logic to say a bar worker exposed to a 40 hour work week of second hand smoke would be risking their health by showing up to work.

OSHA has limits on the level of exposure a worker is subjected over an 8 hour work day. For identified chemicals (formaldehyde, for instance) these are ppm levels. I am guessing that, even though known carcinogens are present in smoke, that levels have not been established for second hand smoke exposure. Politics?

x

KCUnited · 06-01-2012, 07:41 AM

My karaoke voice is much crisper now that the Red Balloon is smoke free.

Ace Gunner · 06-01-2012, 07:42 AM

women should smoke starting at an early age because it increases their fellatio skills 10 fold imo. just throwing that out there since we're on the subject.

**Kyle DeLexus** · 06-01-2012, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCUnited

My karaoke voice is much crisper now that the Red Balloon is smoke free.

I drive by that place all the time. There are always 3 or so cars outside. Never been in.

**Saul Good** · 06-01-2012, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebedee DuBois

Do we all agree that smoking increases chances of disease? I hope we can agree on that.

After that, it is just a matter of degree/exposure. What dosage is required to reach the tripping point of increased health risk?

I don't think it is a huge leap of logic to say a bar worker exposed to a 40 hour work week of second hand smoke would be risking their health by showing up to work.

OSHA has limits on the level of exposure a worker is subjected over an 8 hour work day. For identified chemicals (formaldehyde, for instance) these are ppm levels. I am guessing that, even though known carcinogens are present in smoke, that levels have not been established for second hand smoke exposure. Politics?

x

Smoking? Yes

Second hand smoke? Not unless you've got a study showing that it does.

KCUnited · 06-01-2012, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle DeLexus

I drive by that place all the time. There are always 3 or so cars outside. Never been in.

It's a decent enough place if you're looking for a self esteem boost. No doubt the smokiest place I've ever been in back in the day.

**Saul Good** · 06-01-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCUnited

It's a decent enough place if you're looking for a self esteem boost. No doubt the smokiest place I've ever been in back in the day.

That award goes to the old Jilly's downtown. The Balloon is badass, though.

KCUnited · 06-01-2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

That award goes to the old Jilly's downtown. The Balloon is badass, though.

From my experiences I'd give the edge to the Balloon. I was in there once when it got raided and the cops had the door propped open to get everyone out and it literally looked like the place was on fire.

**Dave Lane** · 06-01-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

I have spent a very large part of my life working in multifamily housing and I can assure you that is not true.

Then you havent had tenants that stay for several years. Its gross, nicotine drips off of everything during cleaning

06-01-2012, 01:42 AM
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $2299112	Spinoff: Second Hand Smoke Risks: Fact or Fiction? I know we have had this debate before but I feel like getting a fresh perspective on this. I would like to hear people's beliefs on the subject BUT I won't accept a simple "well the CDC says this or Penn and Teller say that"... as support. You have to actually presents FACTS. I personally don't think a legit study has been done to prove a statistically significant health risk to second hand smoke. That doesn't mean that risks don't exist.. that means that there is no hard science backing up the idea. HAIL SCIENCE! Ok, I'll start with my facts backing up this up in the next post....
Posts: 19,591

06-01-2012, 07:30 AM	#33
stevieray best in the biz Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Under Pressure Casino cash: $2195273	...this crap again? my clothes! my clothes!
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06-01-2012, 07:34 AM	#35
Saul Good Quit your bullshit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bored of winning Casino cash: $10052799	Sad movies can lead to depression. Let's outlaw them. Attractive models can lead to negative body images. Let's ban them. In fact, let's ban everything, then everyone will be happy. Nobody gets any rights. __________________ Today is not a good day to be a pussy.
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06-01-2012, 07:40 AM	#37
Zebedee DuBois Veteran Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: floating in a tin can Casino cash: $1515199	Do we all agree that smoking increases chances of disease? I hope we can agree on that. After that, it is just a matter of degree/exposure. What dosage is required to reach the tripping point of increased health risk? I don't think it is a huge leap of logic to say a bar worker exposed to a 40 hour work week of second hand smoke would be risking their health by showing up to work. OSHA has limits on the level of exposure a worker is subjected over an 8 hour work day. For identified chemicals (formaldehyde, for instance) these are ppm levels. I am guessing that, even though known carcinogens are present in smoke, that levels have not been established for second hand smoke exposure. Politics? x __________________ What am I even doing here?
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06-01-2012, 07:41 AM	#38
KCUnited Cheat Death Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Land of Drincoln Casino cash: $1898244	My karaoke voice is much crisper now that the Red Balloon is smoke free.
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06-01-2012, 07:42 AM	#39
Ace Gunner First Overall Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: kcmo Casino cash: $10007271	women should smoke starting at an early age because it increases their fellatio skills 10 fold imo. just throwing that out there since we're on the subject. __________________ The Greatest
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