Devil's advocate-Chiefs shouldn't have signed Cassel & should've waited & signed Vick

[kcbubb]

The Chiefs offense in the last 7 games of the year improved greatly and was performing in the top half the league using Gailey's modified spread offense. This offense used a running QB who threw primarily short, quick passes and the QB lead the league in rushing for his position.

This offense would have been perfect for Michael Vick, who led the league in QB rushing several times. Vick has never been a great passer or decision maker, but Gailey's offense which relied on easy decision making, mostly short passes and the QB running the ball would have fit Vick perfectly. And this offense is more suited to the Chiefs current offensive line which has and will struggle. The Chiefs could have allowed Thigpen and Vick to compete but obviously Thigpen would have the job for at least the first 6 games.

This would have also allowed the Chiefs to use their draft differently to fill many gaping holes and obvious lack of depth with the offensive line, linebacker, a pass rusher, TE and wide receiver.

The Chiefs could have stuck with the 4-3 and tried to overhaul their defense with Curry, Everette Brown or Ray Malaugua (Brown & Malaugua were both available in the 2nd round), or Michael Johnson (available in the 3rd round).

Or they could have mixed that in with trying to revamp their offensive line with the many players that were available or with a TE like Jared Cook who was available in the 3rd round who would have complimented our big TE, Cottam.

Instead we are stuck with watching a young QB play behind a weak offensive line and throw to receivers that drop many passes or can't stay healthy with out the best pass catching option from last year. And the only significant improvement to one of the worst defenses in the league was to the defensive line and a couple of old linebackers.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

hey... what else are we going to talk about on a Chiefs BB??? how the chiefs are gonna win 4-5 games this year if things work out well???

what could have been seems more interesting to me. maybe not realistic in the sense that it could ever happen with Pioli running the show, but interesting.

If Herm were still here it might could have happened. We know that Herm probably would have stuck with Thigpen and his role model, Tony Dungy, has reached out to Vick.

Herm might have brought in Vick to back up Thigpen in Gailey's offense. Herm probably would have picked Curry with the 1st pick. And I'm guessing he would have gone after Everette Brown with the 2nd pick because we would still be in the 4-3 and the pass rush would be a priority. He probably would have more faith in a small DE like Brown because of the success of Freeney with Dungy and Colts. We would still have Tony G.

What might have been could be interesting...

Please lord.

Make it stop.

[Chieftain58]

You could get Vick for cheap! He rushed for 1000 yards but only had a pass completion percentage of 53% in 2006.. sign him as a wr

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by milkman

Even Gailey's offense is designed to put the ball in the air in the passing game.
The fact remains that your QB has to make reads and attempt to make quick decisions to get the ball to recievers.

Running was the result of a breakdown in protection and/or a failure to make the necessary read.

It still remains that QBs that win SBs are pocket passers.

Steve Young couldn't get over that hump until he learned to use his legs to buy time rather than to to tuck and run.

Bringing Vick in does nothing to make this team better in the long term, and short term fixes can suck balls.

Vick is a suckass QB who happens to be a great athlete.

And this idea of yours sucks ass as much as Vick does, and you are a ****ing idiot of epic proportions for even thinking it.

It depends on your defense and the ability of your team to run the ball. There have been several teams win the superbowl with average QB play and good luck.

There is no formula for winning the SB. But you can't win the superbowl if you don't make the playoffs.

I am also not afraid to say that something could work that hasn't been done before. Before the Rams won the superbowl in 99, people said that you couldn't win it all with that much passing and with a defense that wasn't that strong. I remember people saying, the weather won't allow for it. But they did it. I believe other teams will win the SB in the future with non traditional formulas. The wild cat will be a factor in a team winning the superbowl in the future. But just because it hasn't been done in the past doesn't mean that teams shouldn't use it.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

It depends on your defense and the ability of your team to run the ball. There have been several teams win the superbowl with average QB play and good luck.

There is no formula for winning the SB. But you can't win the superbowl if you don't make the playoffs.

I am also not afraid to say that something could work that hasn't been done before. Before the Rams won the superbowl in 99, people said that you couldn't win it all with that much passing and with a defense that wasn't that strong. I remember people saying, the weather won't allow for it. But they did it. I believe other teams will win the SB in the future with non traditional formulas. The wild cat will be a factor in a team winning the superbowl in the future. But just because it hasn't been done in the past doesn't mean that teams shouldn't use it.

Let me bottom line it for you.

Every SB winner, regardless of any other factor had one thing in common.

They had a pocket passer at QB.

Some were better scramblers than others.
Some were greats, some were mediocre.

But every single SB winning QB has been a pass first, run out of necessity QB.

Good defenses can contain a mediocre QB who's a runner first.
It's why Vick struggled mightily against the Bucs.

It's why Steve Young couldn't get out of the NFC playoffs until he became a passer first.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

hey... what else are we going to talk about on a Chiefs BB??? how the chiefs are gonna win 4-5 games this year if things work out well???

what could have been seems more interesting to me. maybe not realistic in the sense that it could ever happen with Pioli running the show, but interesting.

If Herm were still here it might could have happened. We know that Herm probably would have stuck with Thigpen and his role model, Tony Dungy, has reached out to Vick.

Herm might have brought in Vick to back up Thigpen in Gailey's offense. Herm probably would have picked Curry with the 1st pick. And I'm guessing he would have gone after Everette Brown with the 2nd pick because we would still be in the 4-3 and the pass rush would be a priority. He probably would have more faith in a small DE like Brown because of the success of Freeney with Dungy and Colts. We would still have Tony G.

What might have been could be interesting...

Dude.....

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by milkman

Let me bottom line it for you.

Every SB winner, regardless of any other factor had one thing in common.

They had a pocket passer at QB.

Some were better scramblers than others.
Some were greats, some were mediocre.

But every single SB winning QB has been a pass first, run out of necessity QB.

Good defenses can contain a mediocre QB who's a runner first.
It's why Vick struggled mightily against the Bucs.

It's why Steve Young couldn't get out of the NFC playoffs until he became a passer first.

Gailey's offense was primarily pocket passing. But the offense was designed to be easier to read and make decisions.

I would say that Gailey's offense last year was pass first. But the reads were easier for the QB. This would have helped Vick.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Gailey's offense was primarily pocket passing. But the offense was designed to be easier to read and make decisions.

I would say that Gailey's offense last year was pass first. But the reads were easier for the QB. This would have helped Vick.

Let's emphasize "reads" and "make decisions", the part of quarterbacking that Vick sucks at, along with a terrible inaccuracy that makes Tyler Thigpen look like a marksman by comparison.

It's like trying to fix leaky faucet with masking tape.

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by milkman

Let's emphasize "reads" and "make decisions", the part of quarterbacking that Vick sucks at, along with a terrible inaccuracy that makes Tyler Thigpen look like a marksman by comparison.

It's like trying to fix leaky faucet with masking tape.

How many times did Vick go the pro bowl???? He's not an elite passer, but he should be better than Thigpen especially in the old offense.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

How many times did Vick go the pro bowl???? He's not an elite passer, but he should be better than Thigpen especially in the old offense.

Who gives a rat's ass how many times Vick went to the PB?

I'm done with this.

You clearly are a ****ing moron who is trying to justify the idea of keeping Herman ****ing Edwards and signing Vick.

And neither are justifiable.

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by milkman

Who gives a rat's ass how many times Vick went to the PB?

I'm done with this.

You clearly are a ****ing moron who is trying to justify the idea of keeping Herman ****ing Edwards and signing Vick.

And neither are justifiable.

no on Edwards and maybe on Vick. I think you don't have much risk with Vick and he does have some upside. You can sign him cheap and if he doesn't work out, you cut him. And he can always just run the wild cat. The fins drafted pat white in the 2nd to run the wild cat. That alone has some value.

I don't like a lot of what Edwards did and I really don't like the direction of the current regime, especially defensively and with the offensive line.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Dude.....

[King_Chief_Fan]

Originally Posted by milkman

But every single SB winning QB has been a pass first, run out of necessity QB.

Good defenses can contain a mediocre QB who's a runner first.
It's why Vick struggled mightily against the Bucs.

It's why Steve Young couldn't get out of the NFC playoffs until he became a passer first.

Exactly....not to mention how a so so Chiefs team kicked the living crap out of the falcons. They had vick shut down.....The Chiefs had vick shut down....the Chiefs had vick shut down....KCBubb, do you get the picture?

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

How many times did Vick go the pro bowl???? He's not an elite passer, but he should be better than Thigpen especially in the old offense.

He went to the Pro Bowl because he's a GD RB in a QBs position. He didn't go for his ****ing passing. And last I checked....going to Pro Bowls doesn't automatically win you a ****ing championship.