Chiefs Did you over-react to the work of Casshole? - Page 10

**Saul Good** · 12-21-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

There was a thread several weeks ago. I think it was titled "I know everyone hates Cassel."
If that's the right thread, many bashers put forth the things they would need to see from Cassel to accept him as the answer.
All this talk of "moving goalposts," you'd think it'd be easy to pull up that thread and use specifics.

You see... This has become every bit as idiotic as a political argument.
Why?
Because it has turned into people constantly saying, "You believe _____," rather than listening to people say what they believe.
It's much easier to build statement than to actually deal with the real-life facts.

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That's when the goalposts really started moving. Go back to last year or the offseason or even the first 5 weeks of this season to see what people were saying about him before he started playing well.

Sully · 12-21-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

That's when the goalposts really started moving. Go back to last year or the offseason or even the first 5 weeks of this season to see what people were saying about him before he started playing well.

Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.

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**Saul Good** · 12-21-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.

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I don't save these things for posterity, but there are plenty immortalized in signatures across the board.

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

But let me give you a microcosm for why I think he's yet another worthless sack of shit in a long line of worthless sacks of shit that we've had at the QB position:

3rd and about 7. Time in the pocket. No heavy pressure. Cassel shits himself and literally runs into a sack instead of staying strong in the pocket.

This is the anti Trent Green. That sumbitch was impervious to danger in the pocket. Not surprisingly, who lit up Cassel for his stupidity?

All of this goes back to my claim that Cassel possesses modest talent (at best) and extremely limited football instincts. And you're not going to teach or develop the latter at the professional level.

Cassel is now one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL, and it sure looks like he's developed these instincts at the professional level.

**DeezNutz** · 12-21-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)
.

I moved goalposts? If not, then this post doesn't support your claim.

If anything, I've noted that I could be wrong. In the context of that specific game and up until that point in Cassel's development, that post was 100 percent correct.

**DeezNutz** · 12-21-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)

Did I miss the apology post, since my post did not provide evidence for "moving the goalposts"?

Just Passin' By · 12-21-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

Since each "basher" has their own set of goalposts, and since you are confident in their movement, can you point to specific posters and their movement?
Can you tell me where to look specifically?
I'm confident of mine, but I'm sure you have some specifics in mind to turn me around on this "they root for a flat tire!" theory.

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"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.

"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick

"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick

"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season

"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers

"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?

If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.

milkman · 12-21-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.

"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick

"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick

"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season

"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers

"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?

If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.

I bash Manning all the time.

**Bearcat** · 12-21-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.

"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick

"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick

"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season

"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers

"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?

Everything in this post that's outside of quote marks is at least not relevant and at most full reerun, and I really hope those aren't actual arguments from anyone, ever.

Just Passin' By · 12-21-2010, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Everything in this post that's outside of quote marks is at least not relevant and at most full reerun, and I really hope those aren't actual arguments from anyone, ever.

If you really think that, you're an idiot.

**Bearcat** · 12-21-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

If you really think that, you're an idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.

Cassel won 11 games in NE.... that completely misses the point of the argument. I'm no basher, but the argument is they want Cassel to put a game on his shoulders. Quickly looking at his time in NE, I'd say you could make the argument that he did so 2-3 times, with a supporting cast that helped Brady to a ~120 QB rating the previous year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick

"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick

.

Bledsoe? Are you ****ing kidding me? "That team" has nothing to do with Drew Bledsoe... what the hell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season

Yeah, the Chiefs have 9 wins, but that's completely missing the point. Seeing "it" over the course of the season means consistency out of Cassel. Have we seen that all season? No. (I don't think this was an expectation coming into a season, it's simply saying "before I crown his ass, I'd like to see him play at a high level on a consistent basis").

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers

The Rams?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?
.

Again, missing the point... it's not "but, he hasn't won in the playoffs," it's "before I crown his ass, let's see him win meaningful games," and what better game than a playoff game?

Sully · 12-21-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

I don't save these things for posterity, but there are plenty immortalized in signatures across the board.

Here's one that I was able to find easily because I got a neg rep in the thread for defending Cassel's performance. (The neg wasn't from Deez, BTW.)

Cassel is now one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL, and it sure looks like he's developed these instincts at the professional level.

I'm reading this on Tapatalk, so I can't see who typed that quote or, apparently, how that poster moved the goalposts.
Help a brutha out, will ya?

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Sully · 12-21-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

"I want my QB to be able to win games"

- Cassel won 11 games in N.E.

"That doesn't count. Anyone can win in N.E. with that team and coach"

- Bledsoe was only 5-13 with Belichick

"Bledsoe sucked"

- Bledsoe was a Pro Bowl QB both before, and after, his time with Belichick

"But I need to see it over the course of a full season"

- The Chiefs have 9 wins, and will have a winning season

"But I need to see it in critical games"

- Cassel just came back from an appendectomy and helped win a game that the team needed in order to stay ahead of the Chargers

"But he hasn't won in the playoffs!"

- He hasn't played in the playoffs, either, because the 2008 Patriots were unlucky enough to become the only team to miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record since the league went to 4 divisions in the conferences. Manning is .500 in the playoffs, and Matt Ryan is 0-1 in the playoffs. Would you be bashing them, too?

If you think the threads haven't gone in a that sort of vein, you haven't been around here much.

Those are great.
Now how have those posters moved their goalposts?

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Just Passin' By · 12-21-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

Those are great.
Now how have those posters moved their goalposts?

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Quote:

Moving the goalposts, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

Sully · 12-21-2010, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

I understand what it means.
Have the specific posters you quoted changed their stance since Cassel reached all their checkmarks?

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Just Passin' By · 12-21-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

I understand what it means.
Have the specific posters you quoted changed their stance since Cassel reached all their checkmarks?

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I didn't say those were direct quotes. I noted that threads have gone that way and created an example. However, if you can't figure out some of the people I'm referring to, I don't know what to tell you.

It's not as if they're all in hiding. There's supposedly only one of those.