A mock draft that will make your heads explode

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Now which position is more important?

I would imagine someone has a best punter and kicker too, should we draft them #1?

QB is the most important position on the field on either side of the ball, that is undeniable. You're trying really hard to put words in my mouth that won't fit there.

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Kevin Minter or Alec Ogletree.



Geno Smith.

Uhhhh, Not sure who you read, but Te'o is the undisputed #1 ILB, and QB is Smith/Barkley, some other random guy who just jumped up the list as those two fell.

That's a hard sell there buddy, and you're trying hard to "prove" a point that isn't there.

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

What in the world does that have to do with anything?!!!! Who is the clear cut best Punter? Just because somebody is the best at their position doesn't mean they should go before another person when there MIGHT be a debate on who is the best. This isn't about getting the best player in the draft. It's about getting the player that helps the Chiefs win a SB. You don''t turn your team around or win a SB because of your LB's. You CAN NOT win without a QB. Take a chance at the best one, simple as that. If you don't have a legit QB, you aren't a real team in the NFL.

You don't win a super bowl with a QB alone, that argument is so flawed and stupid. Yes, a solid QB is going to win you games, but without talent around him, and without a defense at least keeping the other team from scoring as much as you do, you aren't going to get anywhere.

If QB is the only position that matters, and no other positions matter, why the **** do CB's get paid so much? Why do WR's and RB's get paid so much?

Because we are forced to spend money with the new CBA? Because under your mindset, that is the only plausible reason.

Originally Posted by ChiefRocka

Matt Cassel is smart. Your post, not so much...

That was stupid.

Originally Posted by Molitoth

We have the second best running back in the nfl, and with a better CB and safety prolly a pretty good defense if the offense gets rolling. A big reason this defense sucked is because the offense has so many 3 and outs.

A big reason this defense sucked, is because our secondary got torched, we were alright against the run this year, but our pass defense was pretty bad. I mean Travis Daniels and Jalil Brown? Really? We weren't even getting beat by the opposing team's QB's, if we played Croyle each week, he'd probably have had 9-10 wins without blinking.

Letting Carr go for Routt, then cutting Routt and having no legitimate depth behind them was DUMB, but that is another argument for another thread.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

QB is the most important position on the field on either side of the ball, that is undeniable. You're trying really hard to put words in my mouth that won't fit there.

Not really...

You're trying to say that we should draft a ****ing ILB #1 because he's the "consensus" best ILB when there isn't a "consensus" best QB.

I haven't looked but I bet there are some other far less important positions with a consensus best player... We should draft them #1 overall.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by jd1020

You're right, I don't. Because this team has NO ****ING QB!

We don't have a corner aside from Flowers either....... that was honestly one of the biggest setbacks this year, aside from standard Cassel play.

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Man your memory of what QB's were "locks" going into past drafts is pretty poor. Stop being so ****ing afraid of drafting a QB. You need to take a chance. You can't win without a QB. Go ahead and try to improve the team and ignore the QB position and enjoy not winning a SB. Do you watch the NFL?

I do watch the NFL, I was all for going after Peyton Manning and drafting a project QB last year, was all for Drafting Mallet the year before, and we didn't, was happy to draft Stanzi in the fifth, and this brings me to another point that is extremely important here.

You want me to believe that we should draft a QB with the #1 pick in the draft, when we didn't even give our #3 QB an active roster spot in the last game of the year against a team we knew we'd get tossed around by, in the chance that we'd be down by 14-21 points and give him a drive to see if he can actually play in a live game and apparently reverse the "picture" we have of him currently?

You expect me to buy into the draft a QB with the #1 pick mantra, when the history of this team, this fandom, is afraid of QB's and the "curse"?

Do you really blame me? I'm not afraid of taking a chance on a lock like Luck, but there is no lock in this draft as of this very moment.

That being said, I am STILL all for getting a QB in the draft, and especially if Geno/Wilson/Bray end up posting good Combines and Pro Days.

I'm just not going to blatantly ignore the fact that we have two very big glaring holes on the defensive side of our game either.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

You want me to believe that we should draft a QB with the #1 pick in the draft, when we didn't even give our #3 QB an active roster spot in the last game of the year against a team we knew we'd get tossed around by, in the chance that we'd be down by 14-21 points and give him a drive to see if he can actually play in a live game and apparently reverse the "picture" we have of him currently?

You expect me to buy into the draft a QB with the #1 pick mantra, when the history of this team, this fandom, is afraid of QB's and the "curse"?

Do you really blame me? I'm not afraid of taking a chance on a lock like Luck, but there is no lock in this draft as of this very moment.

That being said, I am STILL all for getting a QB in the draft, and especially if Geno/Wilson/Bray end up posting good Combines and Pro Days.

I'm just not going to blatantly ignore the fact that we have two very big glaring holes on the defensive side of our game either.

Yeah I do blame you. I blame you for first starting the argument by saying you would be fine taking Teo and now trying to say its about what you think is going to happen, not what you want to happen. You said you are cool taking Teo if thats what KC thinks is best and I fully blame you for that.

As for what Stanzi did, are you kidding me? What does the handling of the QB position by Crennel and Pioli have to do with what the next group will do. Especially when Clark made mention of the QB position.

The ILB position is not nearly as big a hole as the QB and CB position. Hell, even if Albert and Bowe are kept, DL and Safety may be more important. You can fill ILB later in the draft. Happens all the time.

I am so sick and tired of the "lock" QB. Are you seriously going to wait for th next Luck to come around. Grow some balls and take a ****ing chance. This isn't the nuclear bomb. Failing with a QB doesn't **** you for 5 years anymore. Look at what we have done being afraid of taking a QB. How is not fixing the QB position less risky? Alex Smith, Glennon ect. Those aren't bigger risks? Sorry, I do blame you and everybody that thinks the way you do.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

Lol DJ has won 2 or 3 games for us?



wow, just wow.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes, ironically enough, he has. He's made plays on defense that have either ended games, given us the chance to win, or nailed the door shut on a turnover to seal the game. You did watch DJ play in 2010 right?

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

You don't win a SB without a QB plan an simple. You obviously need other players but you don't ****ing start with them. Every team that has fails. You keep talking about things that are flawed, the entire argument that a player that is clear cut best at his position should be taken over another where its debatable is a complete joke.

I think you mean Plain and simple, as there is no simple plan for winning a Super Bowl when your team has no QB, no depth at CB, and no depth on the offensive line.

I'm not saying we should take Te'o because he's the consensus best, I'm just pointing out that he's above and beyond the best at his position in this draft, and we don't have that same comparison at the QB position, so you can't say there is a guaranteed "lock" there for us, as this is the shittiest QB draft in a decade, yet the defensive side of the draft is STACKED to the brim.

I'm still 100% behind drafting a QB if there is one that is good enough for us that fits our system.

Originally Posted by jd1020

Not really...

You're trying to say that we should draft a ****ing ILB #1 because he's the "consensus" best ILB when there isn't a "consensus" best QB.

I haven't looked but I bet there are some other far less important positions with a consensus best player... We should draft them #1 overall.

I'm not "trying" to say anything here. I've said it. There is no consensus best QB, but there is a consensus best ILB, and if no QB manages to separate himself from the pack, or improve his actual "prominence" as analysts see it, I'm not OPPOSED to drafting a guy like Te'o, and then going and getting Wilson or Bray in the 2nd round. No mistake about it, in the first 40 selections of this draft (adjusting for a possible trade here), we will have a QB there is no doubt about it. It is more about who and when we draft them.

Originally Posted by dtchiefs4life

We have to take a QB no 1. Whoever is the best prospect at QB take him. But it doesnt matter unless Pioli is gone

Even if they all project to be 2-3rd round talents after the combine and some big name guy gets let go like Romo? I'm not for a Retread, but lets hypothesize for a bit. Say Geno slips to the second round but has the best overall mechanics, just needs a little time to get up to speed. Are you opposed to signing Romo, drafting Geno in the 2nd, and picking up Te'O or an LT with our first pick of the draft depending on what happens with Albert?

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Yeah we agree here. After qb, we need a cb and safety if bowe and Albert stay.

What is getting lost here is the importance of what we do with some of our players in the off season. As it stands right now, we don't draft a QB with our first pick if Albert is let go. That much is guaranteed.

We go LT with our first pick, and QB with our 2nd and I'll bet the world on that one.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

I'm not "trying" to say anything here. I've said it. There is no consensus best QB, but there is a consensus best ILB, and if no QB manages to separate himself from the pack, or improve his actual "prominence" as analysts see it, I'm not OPPOSED to drafting a guy like Te'o, and then going and getting Wilson or Bray in the 2nd round. No mistake about it, in the first 40 selections of this draft (adjusting for a possible trade here), we will have a QB there is no doubt about it. It is more about who and when we draft them.

The fact that you "aren't opposed" to drafting T'eo #1 is why you are a dumbass.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Yes. But the gap for anything after QB is big. Drafting a LB before QB or CB is a complete joke.

For us? I agree. QB is the largest, most glaring need for us. That doesn't automatically make our first pick a QB. If you have a guy that you KNOW will fit your system, a guy you KNOW is YOUR GUY, and you can get him in the 2nd, why not fill another hole with another guy? I'd be all over it if that happens to be the case.

Originally Posted by Capt Tasty Cheeks

It's fascinating to me that people get paid to write and haven't realized that with the new rookie pay scale a QB is going to go #1 overall 9.5 times out of 10...and that other 0.5 times is for when an Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson is in the draft (which isn't available this year).

Yes, the rookie pay scale is even friendlier to RB's since you don't have to give a McFadden $40M anymore...you can get a guy at #5 and pay $16M or something totally reasonable

BUT YES...$25M is A LOT for an ILB...it is Kyle Orton for QB's. A QB is going #1 in this draft no matter what.

anyone mocking anything else is an idiot...

Despite your theory behind payscales being true, you are under the impression that because you don't have to pay them, somehow automatically makes them the #1 pick.

With that analogy, the top 10 QB's of this draft should be taken unanimously as the top 10 picks.

That is not how the draft works. You draft for what you need, what you could use, and you certainly draft guys out there that have a few question marks, but are known to be solid football players (BPA in later rounds).

Just because we need a QB doesn't dictate us using it as our #1 pick, just yet. Like I said, if Albert is gone, LT is a lock for our #1 pick.

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Yeah I do blame you. I blame you for first starting the argument by saying you would be fine taking Teo and now trying to say its about what you think is going to happen, not what you want to happen. You said you are cool taking Teo if thats what KC thinks is best and I fully blame you for that.

As for what Stanzi did, are you kidding me? What does the handling of the QB position by Crennel and Pioli have to do with what the next group will do. Especially when Clark made mention of the QB position.

The ILB position is not nearly as big a hole as the QB and CB position. Hell, even if Albert and Bowe are kept, DL and Safety may be more important. You can fill ILB later in the draft. Happens all the time.

I am so sick and tired of the "lock" QB. Are you seriously going to wait for th next Luck to come around. Grow some balls and take a ****ing chance. This isn't the nuclear bomb. Failing with a QB doesn't **** you for 5 years anymore. Look at what we have done being afraid of taking a QB. How is not fixing the QB position less risky? Alex Smith, Glennon ect. Those aren't bigger risks? Sorry, I do blame you and everybody that thinks the way you do.

Having read this response, I can tell that your emotion is in this. You want a QB or no draft at all. You don't care if our roster is full of undrafted free agents out of northern canada, as long as we spend our first pick on a QB.

The point I brought up with Stanzi and the then current FO/Staff, was that we got a guy our HC liked and wanted to start the year before, a guy who came from Pioli's #1 scouted college, and after 2 years, he hasn't started a game. He's the best QB on the roster if you compare College to College, but we won't even give him a snap. In the last game of the season, in a season where all hope is lost because we lack a QB, you don't think, hey, maybe we should give our #3 guy a chance to play and take a shot at him actually being like the next Tom Brady, someone he was compared to in the draft. You can't fool yourself thinking Crennel and Pioli were the only ones to have input on that decision.

As for the rest, I never said I was wanting to wait for the next "luck". I've already stated I want to get a QB in this draft, and early. I've been a big fan of drafting a QB in the last 5 drafts here because there are guys I legitimately want this team to draft because I think they'll fit well, and we don't always end up with them, but hey, I'm not the GM or Coach, I have no input here.

What I did say, and I stick by it, is that I'll gladly spend that #1 draft pick on ANYONE, be it Te'o, Smith, or even an LT if we lose Albert, as long as we aren't making a huge "WTF?" mistake. As in, if Geno blows the combine up and ends up being the real deal in terms of metrics and elevates himself from the field of players, I'm all for it. I'll be pissed if he doesn't get picked. But if all of the QB class decides to shit the bed in the combine and pro days, and a guy like Te'o blows up, I'm going to be pissed that we would pick Geno, and not Te'O, because the selection will feel forced, dirty, as if our only reasoning to draft him, was because we haven't taken a chance on a QB in however long.

That, right there, is the mentality I hate. The Mentality you are working from. Jacksonville did the same thing, do you think they liked their Gabbert selection? Gabbert was a much worse QB in college than Stanzi, and we've yet to play the kid. But, as the kids would put it, Jacksonville was "thirsty" for a QB, and they took a shot. Now look at their team, #2 draft pick this year.

Originally Posted by Thig Lyfe

let's trade our #1 pick to Jason Whitlock for Jeff George

Done deal.

Originally Posted by Molitoth

.

Same.

Go watch a bunch of Geno tape, I think you can be converted.

I have, and I'm impressed, but having watched Pat White play a similar game in college, ending up a late round pick, and then going to play baseball, I'm a little skeptic on West Virginia/Virginia Tech QB's transitioning to the pros. I want to see Senior Bowl tape, Combine data, Pro Day workouts, before I jump on that bandwagon.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Capt Tasty Cheeks

I'd rather take a punter #1 overall than an ILB.

Wasting a #1 on a OT, DL, ILB...****ing STUPID.

Take a QB, take a WR, take a RB, take a stud ****ing rush backer...NOTHING else is worth it...and if Matty Quinsell is your god damn QB you take the best GD QB in the draft and pat yourself on the back.

You can't say wasting a #1 on an ILB is stupid, after saying you'd rather take a punter, you just cannot do that.

Taking a QB just because it is your weakest position on your team, with your first pick, does not guarantee that you drafted right. I'm all for drafting right. Again, if we lose Albert, its going to be LT, then QB, then CB in this draft. If we don't, then it'll likely be QB, then CB, then ILB. However, again, if Te'o separates himself so much that he is just the golden ****ing child of the sport, and no QB separates themselves, I'm taking Te'o with my first, and whoever fits our style in the 2nd. No questions asked. That right there, is smart drafting.

Originally Posted by tk13

We don't even know if we're going to be a 4-3 or 3-4 team next year yet.

Seriously? Have you seen the roster? Is this a joke? You're joking right?

Originally Posted by Capt Tasty Cheeks

does Teo run a 4.2 40? Can he rep 225 60 times? Does he have a 60" vertical and what will his Wonderlic be? 48?

If he's all those things...then I think I'd probably

draft Geno

If he does all that and Geno and Barkley, and Bray and whoever else post 20's on the lic and look like Croyle in drills, I'm taking Te'O all day.

Originally Posted by tooge

The only way I'm fine with not using #1 on a QB is if there is a trade partner that keeps us in the top 10 and gives us another 2nd. Then we still get one of the top
3 QBs in all likely hood, could trade our 3rd for a Flynn or Cousins type guy and use the two seconds on CB, WR, or LB combo.

Of course, that would require a trade partner and I
Don't see
It happening for the talent that's up
In the top
This year

I'm completely okay with trading and staying in or near the top 10 and acquiring an additional 2nd. In fact, that is probably the safest thing we can do, and I love safe, especially when there isn't a QB that separates himself. If Geno does, however, I'm taking Geno in a new york minute.

A point about Cousins though, we haven't seen Stanzi play yet, but in College Stanzi ****ing clowned on Cousins all day every day, I wouldn't trade for Cousins at all because of the cost you'd incur from that ransom lol.

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Some people got so worried about filling other holes. Look at SB winners. Most actually had some pretty big holes in places EXCEPT one. That includes the secondary, LB position, ect ect. Only one of those positions has not been a weak one.

Really? Is that why Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer have superbowl rings in the last 15 years? lol

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

How often do "locks like Luck" come around? Once every decade or so. Your and idiot.

Let me break this down for you:
2012 Superbowl:
NE - QB - Tom Brady; ILB - Brandon Spikes/Jerod Mayo
NYG - QB - Eli Manning; ILB - Chase Blackburn

2011 Superbowl
PIT - QB - Ben Roethlisberger; ILB - James Farrior/Lawrence Timmons
GB - QB - Aaron Rodgers; ILB - Desmond Bishop/AJ Hawk

2010 Superbowl
NO - QB - Drew Brees; ILB - Jonathan Vilma
IND - QB - Peyton Manning; ILB - Gary Brackett

2009 Superbowl
PIT - QB - Ben Roethlisberger; ILB - Larry Foote, James Farrior
ARI - QB - Kurt Warner; ILB - Gerald Hayes

2008
NE - QB - Tom Brady; ILB - Tedy Bruschi/Junior Seau
NYG - QB - Eli Manning; ILB - Antonio Pierce




I wonder which correlates more to success?

Originally Posted by jd1020

The fact that you "aren't opposed" to drafting T'eo #1 is why you are a dumbass.

I think you meant "You're" an idiot. I'm actually quite intelligent, thanks sweetheart. I realize that you are really mad and cannot understand the concept of rationalizing logic here, at least to the extent of my standpoint and trying to analyze every possible outcome here to make the RIGHT pick, not the Safe pick, but it is getting annoying listening to you call me an idiot when you cannot even grammatically form a sentence without major errors.


That being said, you and I seem to be at an impasse, even before we get down to who or what we should draft.

You seem to be under this idea that Luck is already better than everyone else in the league.

Let me paint you a better picture, one easily digested.

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees. Those are the three best QBs to ever play the position. They are all under contract coming off of good or great seasons, and will play next year.

You're going to tell me that in the last 30 years there hasn't been a lock like Luck, who at the current state, is barely a top 20 QB in his rookie year, when a guy like Peyton Manning just came off of a Neck injury and is a top 5 QB at his age?

You are going to say he wasn't a lock? Peyton Manning is the most cerebral QB to ever play this game, and only Tom Brady jumps ahead of him as the "best" in the argument.

I'm the idiot, and you're saying there hasn't been a "luck lock" since Elway.......with Peyton Manning...........Peyton Manning in the picture. Peyton Manning we could have signed last year had we not had Pioli.

And you call me the idiot when you forgot about Peyton Manning.

Let that sink in.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

I think you meant "You're" an idiot.

Care to explain the difference between you are and you're? ****ing moron.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Care to explain the difference between you are and you're? ****ing moron.

The way he said it, implied that I was in possession of an idiot. The way he meant to say it, was that I AM an idiot. There's a difference and "your" is possessive, which was improperly used.

"****ing Moron"

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Really? Is that why Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer have superbowl rings in the last 15 years? lol


I think you meant "You're" an idiot.

Wow. Just wow dude. Again I ask if you watch the NFL. The NFL is not the same now that it was in 2002. There is a reason the Dilfer's and Johnson's of the world don't win the SB anymore. The only non-elite QB that has even BEEN in the SB the past 8 plus years if Grossman.

Learn CP lexicon you dumbass. "Your and Idiot" is a ****ing joke.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Taking a QB just because it is your weakest position on your team, with your first pick, does not guarantee that you drafted right. I'm all for drafting right. Again, if we lose Albert, its going to be LT...

And now you are supporting the "QB or bust" crowd. If Albert leaves "it's going to be a LT?" Why? Because we don't have one?

Gee, that sounds a lot like the QB situation...and yet, you are criticizing people who want a QB because they feel that neither Quinn nor Cassel nor Stanzi is capable of playing it at an acceptable NFL level.

Why would it be a LT when there are totally solid LT's to be found in this draft in the second round?

See how it works?

Don't be a disengenuos hypocrite.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

What I did say, and I stick by it, is that I'll gladly spend that #1 draft pick on ANYONE, be it Te'o, Smith, or even an LT if we lose Albert, as long as we aren't making a huge "WTF?" mistake. As in, if Geno blows the combine up and ends up being the real deal in terms of metrics and elevates himself from the field of players, I'm all for it.

Mike Maluga, Vernon Gholston, Jon Baldwin and Dontari Poe love you and your thought process.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Mike Maluga, Vernon Gholston, Jon Baldwin and Dontari Poe love you and your thought process.

Tested my neg power on him. Two red bars. Not sure if thats good after 16 months. Seems like a fake account.

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

We don't have a corner aside from Flowers either....... that was honestly one of the biggest setbacks this year, aside from standard Cassel play.



I do watch the NFL, I was all for going after Peyton Manning and drafting a project QB last year, was all for Drafting Mallet the year before, and we didn't, was happy to draft Stanzi in the fifth, and this brings me to another point that is extremely important here.

You want me to believe that we should draft a QB with the #1 pick in the draft, when we didn't even give our #3 QB an active roster spot in the last game of the year against a team we knew we'd get tossed around by, in the chance that we'd be down by 14-21 points and give him a drive to see if he can actually play in a live game and apparently reverse the "picture" we have of him currently?

You expect me to buy into the draft a QB with the #1 pick mantra, when the history of this team, this fandom, is afraid of QB's and the "curse"?

Do you really blame me? I'm not afraid of taking a chance on a lock like Luck, but there is no lock in this draft as of this very moment.

That being said, I am STILL all for getting a QB in the draft, and especially if Geno/Wilson/Bray end up posting good Combines and Pro Days.

I'm just not going to blatantly ignore the fact that we have two very big glaring holes on the defensive side of our game either.

How often do "locks like Luck" come around? Once every decade or so. Your and idiot.

Let me break this down for you:
2012 Superbowl:
NE - QB - Tom Brady; ILB - Brandon Spikes/Jerod Mayo
NYG - QB - Eli Manning; ILB - Chase Blackburn

2011 Superbowl
PIT - QB - Ben Roethlisberger; ILB - James Farrior/Lawrence Timmons
GB - QB - Aaron Rodgers; ILB - Desmond Bishop/AJ Hawk

2010 Superbowl
NO - QB - Drew Brees; ILB - Jonathan Vilma
IND - QB - Peyton Manning; ILB - Gary Brackett

2009 Superbowl
PIT - QB - Ben Roethlisberger; ILB - Larry Foote, James Farrior
ARI - QB - Kurt Warner; ILB - Gerald Hayes

2008
NE - QB - Tom Brady; ILB - Tedy Bruschi/Junior Seau
NYG - QB - Eli Manning; ILB - Antonio Pierce




I wonder which correlates more to success?