2014 NFL Combine - Players - The DT

[planetdoc]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Well, Sutton came from the Jets. One only has to watch the Jets for about 2 quarters before they get it.

its not exactly the same as the jets (link2)

Originally Posted by bob sutton

we’re trying to incorporate many of the things we did in New York. Again, it’s got to be tailored a little bit to the personnel here. But I think the transition will be good because it’s 3-4 based but it has a little bit more multiple than what I had done in New York before or the same that Romeo had run here. It will be a great starting point, a great jumping off point because a lot of the players have the characteristics that we’re looking for and we might just move it in a little bit different direction.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...cheme/3005499/

Originally Posted by article

The Chiefs are still a 3-4 defense, as they were in 2012 under former coach Romeo Crennel. But instead of being static up front, they've turned into shape-shifters – adjusting to offensive looks, trying to change the scrimmage line on every snap and utilizing a variety of personnel packages.

Teams like Denver, under Payton Manning run a hurry up offense which makes it difficult for defenses to substitute personel. The chiefs cant afford to have a player who is limited to sub packages or one position such as 3-tech, because teams (such as denver) can easily switch to a run play without substitution. I dont think that Aaron Donald is an every down lineman for the chiefs (at least in a 3 man front).

Finally, the same issues that the chiefs faced in the second half of the season (teams beating the blitz with quick passes) was something that Sutton faced in the past. Here is what he said in 2009

Originally Posted by article

Sutton said opponents have been negating his blitz schemes, in part, by throwing the ball quickly or protecting the quarterback.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

its not exactly the same as the jets

I never said it was.

In fact, everything you posted supports exactly what I said.

[planetdoc]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I never said it was.

you sure as hell implied it.

Well, Sutton came from the Jets. One only has to watch the Jets for about 2 quarters before they get it.

Sutton has said before that this is not the Jets defense but the chiefs defense.

Originally Posted by htismaqe

In fact, everything you posted supports exactly what I said.

you, nor anyone else, has provided evidence how many snaps (or percent of plays) that the chiefs use a 5-tech. you make ASSUMPTIONS based on the snaps of players (devito/jackson) that no other player also plays a 5-tech position for any number of plays. You make the ASSUMPTION that the chiefs dont use a 5-tech in a sub package formation. I showed that it is possible to be in a sub package formation and use a 5-tech. Heck, for that matter, what percent of plays do the chiefs use a 3-tech for the 2013 season?

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

you sure as hell implied it.



Sutton has said before that this is not the Jets defense but the chiefs defense.





you, nor anyone else, has provided evidence how many snaps (or percent of plays) that the chiefs use a 5-tech. you make ASSUMPTIONS based on the snaps of players (devito/jackson) that no other player also plays a 5-tech position for any number of plays. You make the ASSUMPTION that the chiefs dont use a 5-tech in a sub package formation. I showed that it is possible to be in a sub package formation and use a 5-tech. Heck, for that matter, what percent of plays do the chiefs use a 3-tech for the 2013 season?

Then wouldn't it make sense for the team to draft Donald and then line him up primarily at 3-tech vs trying to force him into the 5-tech role when we already have Devito, Walker, Bailey, and Catapano for that role?

So, again, why wouldn't you draft the most dominant interior pass rusher available in this draft again? Because you don't think he could do well at 5-tech when our team runs a multiple front and has a number of guys who could fill that role?

[planetdoc]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Then wouldn't it make sense for the team to draft Donald and then line him up primarily at 3-tech vs trying to force him into the 5-tech role

I wouldnt force him to play 5-tech.

1. I havent seen how often the chiefs use a 3-tech, and wouldnt want to use a first round player whose role will be limited to only a few snaps.

2. Donald cant (and shouldnt) line up as a 3-tech on everydown in a 3 or 2 man front. He would be a liability in the run game. An offense that doesnt substitute its players (which is becoming popular) would limit the ability of the chiefs to sub him in or out.

Thus I dont want to devote premium picks on a player who is limited on what he can do and may be limited in how many snaps he can play.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

So, again, why wouldn't you draft the most dominant interior pass rusher available in this draft again?

because he may not fit the chiefs scheme, and the chiefs are not changing their scheme for him. The chiefs have already gone on record that their scheme is not changing for the 2014 season.

I dont try to force square pegs into round holes.

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

I wouldnt force him to play 5-tech.

1. I havent seen how often the chiefs use a 3-tech, and wouldnt want to use a first round player whose role will be limited to only a few snaps.

2. Donald cant (and shouldnt) line up as a 3-tech on downs 1-3 in a 3 or 2 man front. He would be a liability in the run game. An offense that doesnt substitute its players (which is becoming popular) would limit the ability of the chiefs to sub him in or out.

Thus I dont want to devote premium picks on a player who is limited on what he can do and may be limited in how many snaps he can play.



because he may not fit the chiefs scheme, and the chiefs are not changing their scheme for him. The chiefs have already gone on record that their scheme is not changing for the 2014 season.

I dont try to force square pegs into round holes.

Yeah, a guy who led all of college football in TFL is a liability in the run game. If anything he would improve our ability to stop the run.

[planetdoc]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Yeah, a guy who led all of college football in TFL is a liability in the run game. If anything he would improve our ability to stop the run.

pitt runs a 4-3 defense. the chiefs employ a 3-4 base defense.

A 4 man front has more fatties at the LOS than a 3 man front which makes it easier to defend the run.

Here is an example of the weight difference for a typical NFL defenses:
3 man front: Donald (285), Poe (350), walker/devito (305) = 940lbs
4 man front: 285 end, poe (350), Donald (285), 300 end = 1220

the defensive line is lining up against 5 x 300lb offensive lineman = 1500 lbs.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

you sure as hell implied it.

No, I didn't.

The Jets have borrowed concepts from half a dozen different teams over the years, depending on where their coaches have come from.

I was talking about philosophy. You're fixated on scheme.

[planetdoc]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The Jets have borrowed concepts from half a dozen different teams over the years, depending on where their coaches have come from.

I was talking about philosophy. You're fixated on scheme.

you compared the chiefs defense with the jets (whether is was scheme or philosophy it doesnt matter). you said

One only has to watch the Jets for about 2 quarters before they get it.

whether scheme or philosophy the chiefs defense is not exactly the same as the Jets. Thus, one may not "get it" by only watching 2 quarters of the jets.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

you compared the chiefs defense with the jets (whether is was scheme or philosophy it doesnt matter). you said



whether scheme or philosophy the chiefs defense is not exactly the same as the Jets. Thus, one may not "get it" by only watching 2 quarters of the jets.

If you watch the Jets for 2 quarters, you'd notice that the Jets defense look a bit like the Patriots, and then a bit like the Cowboys, and then back to the Patriots, and then they drop a zone blitz ala Pittsburgh.

You obviously don't have any idea what I was talking about.

You're so concerned about being right about 5-techniques that you can't see the forest through the trees.