What's wrong with Mecole Hardman - Part 2

[dlphg9]

Spoiler alert!

Nothing is wrong with him! Unless you consider Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce as being a problem.

Mecole was 3rd on the team in targets (62), rec yards (560), and rec TDs (4). Those stats are right in line with any other teams 3rd most productive receiver and none of those other teams had 2 guys that were 1st team AP in front of that guy.

Green Bay Packers #1 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Robert Tonyan - 59 targets, 52 rec, 586 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 212
Rec - 148
Yards - 2064

Buffalo Bills #2 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Gabriel Davis - 62 targets, 35 rec, 599 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 273
Rec - 209
Yards - 2502

Tampa Bay Buccaneers #3 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Rob Gronkowski - 77 targets, 45 rec, 623 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 193
Rec - 135
Yards - 1846

Tennessee Titans #4 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jonnu Smith - 65 targets, 41 rec, 448 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 198
Rec - 135
Yards - 2059

New Orleans Saints #5 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jared Cook - 60 targets, 37 rec, 504 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 189
Rec - 144
Yards - 1482

Baltimore Ravens #7 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Willie Snead - 48 targets, 33 rec, 432 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 188
Rec - 116
Yards - 1470

Seattle Seahawks #8 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
David Moore - 47 targets, 35 rec, 417 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 261
Rec - 183
Yards - 2357

Indianapolis Colts #9 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Michael Pittman Jr. - 61 targets, 40 rec, 503 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 164
Rec - 99
Yards - 1391

Las Vegas Raiders #10 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Hunter Renfrow - 77 targets, 56 rec, 656 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 227
Rec - 155
Yards - 2092

Average for top 10 scoring offense's 3rd most productive receiving option :

Targets - 62
Receptions - 41
Yards - 530

Average for top 10 scoring offense's top 2 most productive receiving options combined :

Targets - 212
Receptions - 147
Yards - 1918


This is how Hardman stacks up against the other teams 3rd receiving option

Targets - 62 (62 avg)
Receptions - 41 (41 avg)
Yards - 560 (530 avg)

Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce combined

Targets - 280 (most in group)
Receptions - 192 (2nd most in group)
Yards - 2692 (most in group)

So what we can see from these stats above is that nothing is up with Mecole Hardman. His targets and reception matched the average of the 9 other top offenses 3rd receiving option and he was above average in yards, but the big huge difference is Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill just happen to be on the same team as him. Those two have 68 more combined targets, 45 more combined receptions, and 774 more combined yards than the others teams top 2 receiving threats.

TLDR;

Nothing is wrong, he's right in line with the other teams 3rd most productive pass catchers. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are monsters and the best pass catching duo in a long ass time.

PS:

Seriously Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are so good! There was only 11 QBs with more TD passes than those 2 had receiving TDs.

PSS:

****ing Cam Newton started 15 games and had 45 less passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards in the same amount of games!

PSSS:

****ing MVP Lamar had 65 more passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards and they tied for the same amount of passing TDs to receiving TDs.

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

Attempting to build chemistry is not the same thing as successfully building chemistry.

They've been at this now for 3 training camps.

And they still aren’t on the same page!

Hell, the Saints UDFA Marquez Callaway WR had better chemistry with Jameis Winston last night.

[morphius]

Have to wonder if he is just that much slower in pads.

[Abba-Dabba]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Chiefs' Patrick Mahomes, Mecole Hardman address shaky first quarter performance



The Kansas City Chiefs’ second win of the preseason didn’t come without some unnerving developments for the first-string offense. Most concerning was the apparent miscommunication between MVP quarterback Patrick Mahomes and starting receiver Mecole Hardman.

The third-year receiver saw eight targets in the game, with the majority of those looks coming from Mahomes in the first quarter, when there was an obvious effort to get the ball in Hardman’s hands. Whether the bigger problem was Mahomes sailing his passes, or Hardman being off on his routes is unclear, but something was definitely off between the duo that has found plenty of success over the last two years.


It’s probably a stretch to think anyone should be worried about an off night in a preseason game, but with Hardman taking on a significantly more substantial role with the departure of Sammy Watkins in the offseason, the hiccups felt especially foreboding.

His spectacular touchdown catch in the second quarter on an underthrown ball by Chad Henne made up for the first quarter difficulties, but Hardman acknowledged in his press conference that there were miscues between him and Mahomes early.

With Tyreek Hill out of the lineup, Hardman was the team’s number one receiver during first-team reps. Speaking to the media after the game about his heavy use in the first two quarters, Hardman seemed grateful for the opportunity to get some playing time in a starring role.

“We didn’t know Tyreek wasn’t playing until the start of the game,” Hardman said. “It was cool to get a lot of reps out there and get some targets and some catches.”

Asked to evaluate his performance, he seemed happy with what he was able to accomplish but admitted there was something awry between him and Mahomes early.

“It went good,” he said of his showing. “I think I could’ve caught the one in the corner of the end zone, we just had some miscommunication (between) me and (Patrick) Mahomes, but that’s why we’re out there, to get better. I came out of the break wrong, I could’ve been more square to (be able to) jump and get the ball, wherever it was at, so I kind of just got to be in a better position.”

Mahomes was a team player in his comments too, shouldering the blame for the mistakes and saying he could’ve thrown a better ball.

“The first end zone play, I probably just have to throw the ball with a little bit more touch,” he said of the near touchdown connection. “I threw a little hard. I tried to really rip it in there, and it was a little too high for him to get both his hands on it. The second one where he kind of ran across the field, it’s a play you always see us run with Tyreek (Hill), and we used to work on that timing of finding that right spot because he has to speed to beat that guy across the field. I don’t know what the other one was, but I
thought he had a good game. Obviously, there are a few mistakes here and there, but you saw he made the big play on that cover zero play where Chad (Henne) put it up for him, and you want to see those things.”

Moving on from a couple of missed passes, Mahomes emphasized that games and situations like these are normal for the preseason. Everyone is still gearing up, even if training camp has ended.

“We always talk about during training camp, and during these preseason games kind of training guys to kind of be on the same page as we are,” Mahomes said of the process. “That throw on that over route where I kind of threw it out of the back of the end zone at the end of that first drive. It’s kind of showing that that’s the spot that I kind of need him to be at that corner of the end zone. And even though he didn’t catch it, he’ll know that the next time, and I think the best thing with Mecole is that he doesn’t make the same mistake twice. He really has learned a lot being behind Tyreek and learning how to play that position.”

Both players’ comments would point towards the shaky first quarter being a routine part of the preparation process that the preseason is meant for. Even the best players look average at times, and it is always best to get the wrinkles ironed out while the games don’t count.

The duo of Mahomes and Hardman seems to be committed to getting where they need to be by September. A big season from both will quell any consternation this performance caused among fans.



They are building chemistry dipshits. Listen to Mahomes and this is preseason what its all about to learn timing and what they need to do.

That's what leaders do. They realize that life isn't a one way street.

He acknowledged that there were things that both him and Hardman could have done better.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I really don't get why everyone's so worried about replacing Watkins and his 37 balls.

We scored nearly 30 a game with him out, and a MASH unit up front with a rookie RB.

We'll be fine, and those balls will be distributed between Pringle, Hardman, and Robinson mostly.

My biggest concern is that our receivers looked really really bad when tyreek and Sammy were both out. And no one really stepped up when Sammy got hurt either. But the biggest concern is if tyreek has to miss any games. Let's also (knock on wood) have to think about what this offense may look like if kelce misses time. He's been such an Ironman for so long thank God we haven't had to see what that looks like.

We need the insurance of a solid enough #2. Doesn't have to be outstanding when you have mahomes. Hopefully Hardman can become that. But I also really hope powell can step up and do it sooner rather than later too.

[O.city]

Yeah, if our Hall of Fame best Tight end of all time misses games or the Hall of Fame WR misses games the offense might struggle.

Shocking.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yeah, if our Hall of Fame best Tight end of all time misses games or the Hall of Fame WR misses games the offense might struggle.

Shocking.

Cmon, man. You know that's not the point I was making. There is a huge difference between replacing a WR1 with a WR2 like Watkins, and replacing a WR1 with guys who some would argue aren't even WR3. It's like saying you're replacing Mitchell schwartz with Remmers instead of cam Erving.

That's only the insurance part. That's not even counting the fact that tyreek is going to line up against a borderline WR3 if everyone's healthy. Someone needs to step up and take the WR2 role, not just be a gadget or bailout option.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Some people need to keep things in perspective. Hardman is only 23 years old and already put up solid numbers. 14 TDs in 2 years and 1000 yards plus in receiving and 1200 yards plus in return yardage is a solid contributor to our team. Can Hardman still improve his game? The answer is a definitive, yes, but he’s been a good player for us. He’s still learning to be great and isn’t there, yet, but I predict big things from him this year. He’s been a Pro Bowler in his young career and has all the intangibles to make the transition from good to great. He has Mahomes for QB. Once they perfect the nuisances of their chemistry, our team will be hard to stop. I truly believe Hardman makes us forget Watkins this year. The kid is still learning the game, we could do a lot worse than Hardman and should have some patience with his development. Just my 2 cents.

This is the best take on Hardman heading into this year, IMO.

There are a wide range of outcomes between D.K. Metcalf and being a "bust."

At worst, Hardman has been a good contributor whose explosiveness and big-play potential has made a difference in multiple important spots over his first two years.

There's also plenty of reason to think a guy who has been a WR for four years (two of them at a program that doesn't use WR or do a very good job developing them/preparing them), whose first full NFL offseason was interrupted by COVID protocols, has growth yet to come.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Cmon, man. You know that's not the point I was making. There is a huge difference between replacing a WR1 with a WR2 like Watkins, and replacing a WR1 with guys who some would argue aren't even WR3. It's like saying you're replacing Mitchell schwartz with Remmers instead of cam Erving.

That's only the insurance part. That's not even counting the fact that tyreek is going to line up against a borderline WR3 if everyone's healthy. Someone needs to step up and take the WR2 role, not just be a gadget or bailout option.

but it IS the point you're making, whether you realize it or not.

The fact is, Hardman is struggling at WR2.

Ok.

If Hill goes down, and Hardman takes THAT spot, then a defense still has to behave as if nothing has changed. Hardman is not as good as Hill, but he's practically speaking just as fast. He's just as much a threat to blow by your corner and go for 6.

Hardman has decent WR3 numbers, and I expect he'll put up more this year than last.

He'll split with Pringle-who is not flashy but very dependable, and DRob, who's frustrating but also has good chemistry with Mahomes. Depending on the play, we'll see a mix of that. And that will be more than fine with the improved line and running game.

[staylor26]

Not only is Hardman 23, he just turned 23 in March.

He was making plays from day 1 as a 21 year old. This was his very first real NFL offseason. He’s only played 2 preseason games and people are already throwing in the towel on year 3. He’s had a great camp by all accounts, and he reportedly “ran away” with the #2 job. I want to see him for a few full games in his role (not the #1 WR like he was on Saturday) before I even begin to make a judgement.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

but it IS the point you're making, whether you realize it or not.

The fact is, Hardman is struggling at WR2.

Ok.

If Hill goes down, and Hardman takes THAT spot, then a defense still has to behave as if nothing has changed. Hardman is not as good as Hill, but he's practically speaking just as fast. He's just as much a threat to blow by your corner and go for 6.

Hardman has decent WR3 numbers, and I expect he'll put up more this year than last.

He'll split with Pringle-who is not flashy but very dependable, and DRob, who's frustrating but also has good chemistry with Mahomes. Depending on the play, we'll see a mix of that. And that will be more than fine with the improved line and running game.

No, I never disputed that we'll regress no matter what if we lose either of those guys. That's common sense.

But as of right now... Losing a healthy Sammy Watkins stings a little bit. It stings a lot if either hill or kelce go down. Watkins is at least capable of playing like a WR1 (when healthy). If Hardman is struggling to get open in the slot, it's going to be that much harder to get open against press coverage and double teams against elite corners. Then there's a waterfall effect. We saw it last year... When tyreek doesn't draw double teams, drob and mecole have to fight more to get open instead of being bailout options.

If tyreek or kelce goes down, it's unreasonable to expect to replace them with a like superstar. But you need a WR2 who can at least be adequate. I haven't given up on mecole and will be rooting for him. But none of our WRs have proven they can be that guy. Being a role WR doesn't really help when your elite guys aren't giving you lots and lots of help.

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

No, I never disputed that we'll regress no matter what if we lose either of those guys. That's common sense.

But as of right now... Losing a healthy Sammy Watkins stings a little bit. It stings a lot if either hill or kelce go down. Watkins is at least capable of playing like a WR1 (when healthy). If Hardman is struggling to get open in the slot, it's going to be that much harder to get open against press coverage and double teams against elite corners. Then there's a waterfall effect. We saw it last year... When tyreek doesn't draw double teams, drob and mecole have to fight more to get open instead of being bailout options.

If tyreek or kelce goes down, it's unreasonable to expect to replace them with a like superstar. But you need a WR2 who can at least be adequate. I haven't given up on mecole and will be rooting for him. But none of our WRs have proven they can be that guy. Being a role WR doesn't really help when your elite guys aren't giving you lots and lots of help.

This team and the oline is built to run. We need to lean on CEH more not Hardman.

[JakeF]

Hardman just isn't a fully develop WR yet. That doesn't mean he can't be. I prefer Pringle over Hardman, he seems to be further along at developing his game.

Julie Jones would have been a great pickup. A veteran to help Pringle and Hardman learn but probably not staying around long enough to block their future.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

No, I never disputed that we'll regress no matter what if we lose either of those guys. That's common sense.

But as of right now... Losing a healthy Sammy Watkins stings a little bit. It stings a lot if either hill or kelce go down. Watkins is at least capable of playing like a WR1 (when healthy). If Hardman is struggling to get open in the slot, it's going to be that much harder to get open against press coverage and double teams against elite corners. Then there's a waterfall effect. We saw it last year... When tyreek doesn't draw double teams, drob and mecole have to fight more to get open instead of being bailout options.

If tyreek or kelce goes down, it's unreasonable to expect to replace them with a like superstar. But you need a WR2 who can at least be adequate. I haven't given up on mecole and will be rooting for him. But none of our WRs have proven they can be that guy. Being a role WR doesn't really help when your elite guys aren't giving you lots and lots of help.

yeah, except Watkins was NEVER healthy, and caught 37 balls.

That's it. 37.

We're freaking out over 37 catches.

[dlphg9]

Holy mother of ramble! Rasputin has been doin bumps of coke or hanging out with Meth-Factor!

[penchief]

Hardman is a big play waiting to happen. He has elite talent. He just hasn't fully matured as a football player on or off the field. But he's a good kid. Andy and Pat are pushing him to take the next step. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't. If and when it does, look out.

I'm amazed when I watch him move on the field. His stride is a bit unorthodox and makes him look much slower than he really is. But the elite athleticism is there. The TD catch against the cardinals showed great concentration and coordination to adjust to the underthrown ball and make that catch. One of my favorite Mahomes plays is the 5-yard TD pass in the back corner of the end zone against the Saints. Hardman made that catch look easy. He has really good body control.

I think our disappointment in Hardman is that we all see what he can be. We are anticipating it and the wait is pissing us off. But Hardman's ceiling is well worth the wait, IMO.