What's wrong with Mecole Hardman - Part 2

[dlphg9]

Spoiler alert!

Nothing is wrong with him! Unless you consider Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce as being a problem.

Mecole was 3rd on the team in targets (62), rec yards (560), and rec TDs (4). Those stats are right in line with any other teams 3rd most productive receiver and none of those other teams had 2 guys that were 1st team AP in front of that guy.

Green Bay Packers #1 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Robert Tonyan - 59 targets, 52 rec, 586 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 212
Rec - 148
Yards - 2064

Buffalo Bills #2 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Gabriel Davis - 62 targets, 35 rec, 599 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 273
Rec - 209
Yards - 2502

Tampa Bay Buccaneers #3 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Rob Gronkowski - 77 targets, 45 rec, 623 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 193
Rec - 135
Yards - 1846

Tennessee Titans #4 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jonnu Smith - 65 targets, 41 rec, 448 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 198
Rec - 135
Yards - 2059

New Orleans Saints #5 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jared Cook - 60 targets, 37 rec, 504 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 189
Rec - 144
Yards - 1482

Baltimore Ravens #7 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Willie Snead - 48 targets, 33 rec, 432 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 188
Rec - 116
Yards - 1470

Seattle Seahawks #8 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
David Moore - 47 targets, 35 rec, 417 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 261
Rec - 183
Yards - 2357

Indianapolis Colts #9 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Michael Pittman Jr. - 61 targets, 40 rec, 503 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 164
Rec - 99
Yards - 1391

Las Vegas Raiders #10 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Hunter Renfrow - 77 targets, 56 rec, 656 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 227
Rec - 155
Yards - 2092

Average for top 10 scoring offense's 3rd most productive receiving option :

Targets - 62
Receptions - 41
Yards - 530

Average for top 10 scoring offense's top 2 most productive receiving options combined :

Targets - 212
Receptions - 147
Yards - 1918


This is how Hardman stacks up against the other teams 3rd receiving option

Targets - 62 (62 avg)
Receptions - 41 (41 avg)
Yards - 560 (530 avg)

Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce combined

Targets - 280 (most in group)
Receptions - 192 (2nd most in group)
Yards - 2692 (most in group)

So what we can see from these stats above is that nothing is up with Mecole Hardman. His targets and reception matched the average of the 9 other top offenses 3rd receiving option and he was above average in yards, but the big huge difference is Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill just happen to be on the same team as him. Those two have 68 more combined targets, 45 more combined receptions, and 774 more combined yards than the others teams top 2 receiving threats.

TLDR;

Nothing is wrong, he's right in line with the other teams 3rd most productive pass catchers. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are monsters and the best pass catching duo in a long ass time.

PS:

Seriously Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are so good! There was only 11 QBs with more TD passes than those 2 had receiving TDs.

PSS:

****ing Cam Newton started 15 games and had 45 less passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards in the same amount of games!

PSSS:

****ing MVP Lamar had 65 more passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards and they tied for the same amount of passing TDs to receiving TDs.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by smithandrew051

I have a better question.

If Hardman ends the season with 800+ yards and 6+ touchdowns, does it matter how that happens?

That's a very good question

[Red Dawg]

I said it before and I will say it again. Hardman needs a few games before we write him off. Give him a chance since he has never been opposite Hill.

Cut the kid a break until he's played some.

[suzzer99]

DK Metcalf #22 on NFL top 100.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

LETS just cut ****ing Hardman obviously he has no chance to improve his third year you are all right he sucks



How about
**** y'all

Doth protest too much?

Shut the **** up.

Are you secretly Mecole Hardman?

There's a wide spectrum between Mecole Hardman is a great receiver and Mecole Hardman needs to be cut. Find your way there and join the rest of us.

Your posts in this thread are honestly becoming creepy. I thought maybe you were buzzed last night when you were posting about him but now you've continued with the same sycophantic tone and I'm concerned.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

Doth protest too much?

Shut the **** up.

Are you secretly Mecole Hardman?

There's a wide spectrum between Mecole Hardman is a great receiver and Mecole Hardman needs to be cut. Find your way there and join the rest of us.

Your posts in this thread are honestly becoming creepy. I thought maybe you were buzzed last night when you were posting about him but now you've continued with the same sycophantic tone and I'm concerned.

yes in fact I was quite buzzed last night.


I just don't get the hate for a guy that has contributed in winning Championships and give him the opportunity to be successful in this offense but I'm just being a fan defending a player I happen to like because I think he is going do some great things for us that will make the haters look foolish.


I'll either look stupid defending a player I like in this thread or any of the haters are going look stupid in this thread. Oh well I'm ready for the season to start I think it's going be a fun ride.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

LETS just cut ****ing Hardman obviously he has no chance to improve his third year you are all right he sucks



How about
**** y'all

Why are you so emotional over him?

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by smithandrew051

I have a better question.

If Hardman ends the season with 800+ yards and 6+ touchdowns, does it matter how that happens?

I'll flip that on its head.

If Hardman ends the season with those stats - regardless of whether a quarter of it is achieved via flip passes or quick screens - and he fumbles in the AFCCG and costs us the game or runs the wrong route in the SB on a wide open deep route and we end up losing a nailbiter, does it matter that that's his production?

I don't think any of us doubt that Hardman has the scope to be productive in this offense. He's athletically gifted and there are enough other weapons that he's going to find his way to the end zone. I just think his floor has the potential to be dramatically lower given some of his mental lapses, and that can be a major hindrance to a team like the Chiefs that may just be able to turn a JAG into a consistent, productive receiver given Mahomes/Reid. The distribution of outcomes for Hardman is just wider and we may not need that.

(Somehow in this I've gotten painted as Hardman hater and it couldn't be further from the truth.)

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

I'll either look stupid defending a player I like in this thread or any of the haters are going look stupid in this thread. Oh well I'm ready for the season to start I think it's going be a fun ride.

We're all Chiefs fans, bro. Let's lock arms together and enjoy the ride. XOXO.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

yes in fact I was quite buzzed last night.


I just don't get the hate for a guy that has contributed in winning Championships and give him the opportunity to be successful in this offense but I'm just being a fan defending a player I happen to like because I think he is going do some great things for us that will make the haters look foolish.


I'll either look stupid defending a player I like in this thread or any of the haters are going look stupid in this thread. Oh well I'm ready for the season to start I think it's going be a fun ride.

You realize no one is saying he can't or doesn't make plays?

He's going to have big plays this year. He's going to have a couple good games. But what we want to see out of him is consistency. Can he be a guy Mahomes trusts to get 5 yards? 10 yards? 15? Or is he a guy who Reid and Mahomes have to design plays just for him in order to have an effect on the game the majority of the time?

It's weird that you specifically pointed out the screen pass and the pitch play in the playoffs when they're exactly what we're talking about when we say he needs plays designed just for him in order for him to be involved in the offense.

Which players on the chiefs would you say have worse chemistry with Mahomes in your opinion?

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by -King-

You realize no one is saying he can't or doesn't make plays?

He's going to have big plays this year. He's going to have a couple good games. But what we want to see out of him is consistency. Can he be a guy Mahomes trusts to get 5 yards? 10 yards? 15? Or is he a guy who Reid and Mahomes have to design plays just for him in order to have an effect on the game the majority of the time?

It's weird that you specifically pointed out the screen pass and the pitch play in the playoffs when they're exactly what we're talking about when we say he needs plays designed just for him in order for him to be involved in the offense.

Which players on the chiefs would you say have worse chemistry with Mahomes in your opinion?

Look I don't give a **** if he is a gadget player or #2. What I care about is that he is a play maker and they design plays for him to make plays so we win ballgames. I pointed out that Mahomes called him out to make a play and he did just that. So his big play is discounted because it was a jet sweep or a screen pass? He made the plays that contributed to winning us the ball game. Guess what it is Andy Reid job to design plays for players to make plays in his offense and Hardman has made some big plays.



Why are you guys so hard up on giving him a chance to improve his game as a WR?



That's my question. you guys act like he can't or won't improve as a WR and I say that's bullshit.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

For you Mecole Hardman haters I have a question.




Can a player get better in his third year or not?

What has he improved on during his time in KC?

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by BossChief

What has he improved on during his time in KC?

So you are saying going into his third year he can't improve?


I think he had a sophomore slump but I also think he will bounce back and be hungry to redeem himself especially from the Super Bowl that nobody had a good game in.


This is going into his third season do you think he can improve as a WR or not?

The season hasn't begun yet you know.

[Rasputin]

Hell I tell y'all what (i'm not Texan but used Texan accent)


I'm probably more excited about this offense and what Mecole means to this offense because of our offensive line and CEH. So with our new and improved offensive line that was makeshift all last season mind you. Teams are really going have to watch that deep threat now with Mecole and Tyreek because guess what we will have a running game and Patrick will have time in the pocket to go deep. He didn't have that luxury last year and I hope that doesn't make him skittish this year because I think that's why he drifts back and out of the pocket so much.


So in the grande scheme of things I do think Hardman can be a viable #2 if he can turn the jets on and bypass the CB covering him the safeties are going have to figure out to come up and stop the run or protect the deep ball. That has been the MO of most defenses to protect the deep ball but now with the running game and protecting Patrick game on. This also plays much into Tyreek favor as well. Getty up mother ****ers.



Y'all hear what I'm sayin?

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Look I don't give a **** if he is a gadget player or #2. What I care about is that he is a play maker and they design plays for him to make plays so we win ballgames. I pointed out that Mahomes called him out to make a play and he did just that. So his big play is discounted because it was a jet sweep or a screen pass? He made the plays that contributed to winning us the ball game. Guess what it is Andy Reid job to design plays for players to make plays in his offense and Hardman has made some big plays.



Why are you guys so hard up on giving him a chance to improve his game as a WR?



That's my question. you guys act like he can't or won't improve as a WR and I say that's bullshit.

He had issues with Mahomes the past 2 years. So far, it seems like he has the same issues. You don't see the problem? Why is Mahomes getting pissed off at him in preseason? You don't think that's a problem?

And yeah, there's nothing wrong with Jet sweeps and pitches, especially when they work. But if you have to manufacture plays specifically for a player in order to get him involved, than that's not good. A WR2 should be a reliable option even when the play isn't for him. Mahomes should be able to know that a player can reliably get open and know where that player is going to be at the end of his route or during a scramble. It's obvious Mahomes doesn't really know where Hardman will be at the end of routes or on scramble drills. Disagree? Do you think that's a good or bad thing?

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by -King-

He had issues with Mahomes the past 2 years. So far, it seems like he has the same issues. You don't see the problem? Why is Mahomes getting pissed off at him in preseason? You don't think that's a problem?

And yeah, there's nothing wrong with Jet sweeps and pitches, especially when they work. But if you have to manufacture plays specifically for a player in order to get him involved, than that's not good. A WR2 should be a reliable option even when the play isn't for him. Mahomes should be able to know that a player can reliably get open and know where that player is going to be at the end of his route or during a scramble. It's obvious Mahomes doesn't really know where Hardman will be at the end of routes or on scramble drills. Disagree? Do you think that's a good or bad thing?

Do you think they can improve or not?

That's the question I say yes.


Tyreek was a gadget player his first couple years. We will see how the season unfolds I could be way wrong and then that will be on Veach to fix the problem but until the season unfolds I'm a believer in Hardman kicking ass this season.

That is my own opinion and opinions can be wrong but we will see.